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F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersonic speeds

 
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F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersonic sp... - 6/12/2019 6:50:37 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

Funny how that didn't show up in all those test flights.
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/12/2019 9:18:59 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

Funny how that didn't show up in all those test flights.

They used Gorilla Glue for the tests - LePage's glue for production!




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(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/12/2019 9:53:18 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

Funny how that didn't show up in all those test flights.


Funny how it actually did.


"Both deficiencies were first observed in late 2011 following flutter tests where the F-35B and F-35C both flew at speeds of Mach 1.3 and Mach 1.4."


And upon actually reading and comprehending the rest of the article, saying that "F-35 loses stealth coating at supersonic speeds", as Rusty does in his title, is like saying "Man sitting in sun for long time gets sunburned."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Unnecessarily slanted article that is further misconstrued by original poster


However, a naval aviator currently in service said the afterburner problem may not be that troubling to pilots, who must frequently work around a jet’s limitations. The key, he said, is understanding how often the issue occurs.

"I think you'd do well to go back and look at all the times they used the afterburner and that didn't happen," he said. "We're talking about tens of thousands of sorties at this point that this aircraft has flown."

Other aircraft that the Navy operates also have afterburner limits, he explained.

“I think that number needs context,” he said. "It looks scary on its own, but [the Super Hornet] has afterburner limits. They’re not that restrictive, but they have them. The aircraft has an afterburner, you want it to work.

“But I would want to get context for that number: Does this represent 0.002 percent of all sorties? If that’s the case, I don’t give a sh--, and I’ll probably have 15 other things fail before that."

Bryan Clark, previously a top aide to former Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert and now an analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, likened the limitation on the afterburner to similar restrictions on submarine and ship operations.

“I think the operational impact is not huge, since it only applies during a small fraction of the jet’s operational profile. In subs and ships, we have a ‘safe operating envelope’ that defines where the platform is engineered to operate reliably for a long time. We can operate outside the safe operating envelope for a short time, but there are risks to doing so. The operator or commander needs to balance those risks against the benefits," he said.

“That is similar to this situation," he added. "The pilot can be on afterburner as long as needed to evade a threat but has to know the risk of structural damage increases. The pilot can balance that against the risk of getting shot down because he or she didn’t evade fast enough.”

The most important piece will be how well trained the pilot is on the aircraft, he continued.

“As a submariner, I knew the risks of being outside the safe operating envelope and how those risks increased over time and would impact ship performance.”



Emphasis mine. The issues cited, while clearly rising to high levels of concern given the category of deficiency and the recommended restriction, occurred on (apparently) two flights.

And I'm not even an F-35 cheerleader. It's always struck me as inefficient and at least partially unnecessary.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 6/12/2019 10:04:56 PM >

(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/12/2019 10:51:32 PM   
FlyByKnight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961



Funny how that didn't show up in all those test flights.

There you go again.

< Message edited by FlyByKnight -- 6/12/2019 11:57:43 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/13/2019 9:06:10 AM   
Yaab


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Maybe the coating heals itself at subsonic speeds?

< Message edited by Yaab -- 6/13/2019 12:16:37 PM >

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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/13/2019 3:39:12 PM   
geofflambert


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I hate it when the coating comes off of General Tso's chicken.

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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/13/2019 6:28:10 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

Funny how that didn't show up in all those test flights.

They used Gorilla Glue for the tests - LePage's glue for production!





Ha! Apparently.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/13/2019 8:11:32 PM   
rustysi


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Yeah, it losses stealth with that weapons pylon, so who cares? No external weapons on stealth A/C


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(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/13/2019 9:19:42 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Yeah, it losses stealth with that weapons pylon, so who cares? No external weapons on stealth A/C



Given it's main selling point is that is it "stealthy" shouldn't it be important if it's main selling point is predicated on false data?

Just spit ball'in here.

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/14/2019 6:54:07 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

After being contacted by Defense News, the program office created two designations of category 1 problems to highlight the difference between issues that would qualify as an emergency and others that are more minor in nature.

“CAT 1-As are loss of life, potential loss of life, loss of material aircraft. Those have to be adjudicated, have to be corrected within hours, days. We have no CAT 1-A deficiencies,” Winter said.

Instead, the deficiencies on the books all fall under category 1B, which represents problems “that have a mission impact with a current workaround that’s acceptable to the war fighter with the knowledge that we will be able to correct that deficiency at some future time,” Winter added. -Defense News


What a ****-bird plane. Loses yaw control at angles of attack greater than 20-degrees.

This plane is "meat on the table" in any dogfight.

quote:


If left unresolved, the following 'category 1' glitches will be icing on the cake of Lockheed's $400 billion quagmire (partial list via Defense News);

When the F-35B vertically lands on very hot days, older engines may be unable to produce the required thrust to keep the jet airborne, resulting in a hard landing.
After doing certain maneuvers, F-35B and F-35C pilots are not always able to completely control the aircraft’s pitch, roll and yaw.
Supersonic flight in excess of Mach 1.2 can cause structural damage and blistering to the stealth coating of the F-35B and F-35C.
Cabin pressure spikes in the cockpit of the F-35 have been known to cause barotrauma, the word given to extreme ear and sinus pain.
The spare parts inventory shown by the F-35’s logistics system does not always reflect reality, causing occasional mission cancellations.
If the F-35A and F-35B blows a tire upon landing, the impact could also take out both hydraulic lines and pose a loss-of-aircraft risk.
Possible maneuvering issues when the aircraft is operating above a 20-degree angle of attack.
The F-35’s logistics system currently has no way for foreign F-35 operators to keep their secret data from being sent to the United States.


Now ask yourself why the US Air Forces wants the F-15 line started up again (F-15X).

(in reply to Rusty1961)
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RE: F-35 loses "stealth" coating at supersoni... - 6/15/2019 11:55:16 AM   
Lokasenna


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Further, non-hysterical reading: https://www.businessinsider.com/guide-to-understand-category-1-technical-deficiencies-plaguing-f-35-2019-6#where-can-i-find-more-information-4

quote:

All of the F-35′s current deficiencies are CAT 1-Bs, which "have a mission impact with a current workaround that's acceptable to the war fighter."


Please take the axe grinding elsewhere.

(in reply to Rusty1961)
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