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Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165

 
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Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:07:33 PM   
durnedwolf


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So I was doing some light reading...

In the 2nd paragraph below regarding "Air HQ or BF..." is the manual using BF as another term for a HQa?
Because there are lotsa "XX JAAF Base Force" engineer units but I've never really noticed them impacting
torpedo availability... Is there another "appropriate Base Force" other than a HQa or Command HQ that helps
air units with access to torpedoes?

7.2.1.10.2.2 LAND BASED TORPEDO SUPPLY
On land, torpedoes are supplied from Air HQs or appropriate Base Forces that carry a “Torpedo
Ordnance” device.

The Air HQ or BF expends supply at the base to “purchase” torpedoes that are stored in the
Air HQ or BF. Each Air HQ or BF can have a torpedo level set. This represents the number of
torpedoes that the unit will automatically try to maintain.

Command HQs can directly supply torpedoes to groups by expending supply. It does not need
to keep a torpedo reserve.

When a group is ordered to attack ships, the group checks for any BF or HQ in the same base. If
one is found, a number of torpedoes equal to the planes flying are expended from the BF or HQ.
If no HQ or BF is found, then a HQ with the base within the HQ’s Command Radius is checked
for. If one is found, then torpedoes are expended from it.

If no BF or HQ is found, the group will use bombs in the mission.

If a BF or HQ can only supply some torpedoes, then the number of planes flying the mission
with torpedoes will be no more than the number of torpedoes available. Another strike mission
carrying only bombs will possibly be created.

In addition, the base must be able to expend additional supply based on the size of the AF.
Smaller airfields will require more supply to execute the mission than AFs above size 4.

The current Torpedo Ordnance device is visible on the LCU screen, while the level to keep is
shown as part of the TOE.


_____________________________

Bye for now,

DW
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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:14:24 PM   
Leandros


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I have been wondering about this, too. I have the impression that even those HQs mentioned here do not deliver torpedoes when the supply status goes below a certain value. Haven't been able to find anything about this, though.

Fred

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:22:44 PM   
BBfanboy


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As first released, the game let certain BFs hold torpedo stocks. That was changed in a later release to only Air HQs holding torp stocks. The idea was to make distribution of torpedoes a bit less ubiquitous.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:28:02 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Only the HQs deliver torpedoes (but also to units in range not only on the same base). Also torps must be "bought" at the base costing I believe 20 supply each ? But command HQs do not need to "buy" torps. One would need to try out if supply is too low if torps are still delivered by air HQs, I have not seen it so far.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/27/2019 8:29:25 PM >

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:30:21 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Only the HQs deliver torpedoes (but also to units in range not only on the same base). Also torps must be "bought" at the base costing I believe 20 supply each ?

10 supply per torp, max 20 at a time if using the pop-up window. You can also just set the TOE for the unit to draw the required number of torps automatically. Select the Air HQ, click on "Show TOE" and key in the number of torps you want it to stock.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:41:31 PM   
RangerJoe


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I did not know that you could have the HQs automatically draw torpedoes. Thank you for that.

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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― Julia Child


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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 8:48:25 PM   
durnedwolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

As first released, the game let certain BFs hold torpedo stocks. That was changed in a later release to only Air HQs holding torp stocks. The idea was to make distribution of torpedoes a bit less ubiquitous.


mmm - my memory must be holding out on me as I don't recall Base Force engineer units having access to torpedoes. But I'm more than willing to take your word on it.

I already keep torpedo-capable air groups at bases with a HQa or Command HQ either at the same base or within the Command Radius. I was just hoping there might-could be another option available that perhaps I was ignorant of - lol.





< Message edited by durnedwolf -- 5/27/2019 8:51:17 PM >


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Bye for now,

DW

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 10:40:30 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1319
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quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

As first released, the game let certain BFs hold torpedo stocks. That was changed in a later release to only Air HQs holding torp stocks. The idea was to make distribution of torpedoes a bit less ubiquitous.


mmm - my memory must be holding out on me as I don't recall Base Force engineer units having access to torpedoes. But I'm more than willing to take your word on it.

I already keep torpedo-capable air groups at bases with a HQa or Command HQ either at the same base or within the Command Radius. I was just hoping there might-could be another option available that perhaps I was ignorant of - lol.

Along the same line I am a little curious as to why not seaplane tenders hold torpedoes for the PBYs. Or, do they?
Destroyer tenders do supply torpedoes?

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 10:41:27 PM   
geofflambert


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The peculiar thing is some IJA HQas having torpedo inventory, I suppose. Eventually there is an army plane that can use torpedoes.

Perhaps a perfect balance could have been achieved if IJN base forces (only) that were at least in range of an IJA HQa could requisition torpedoes through that HQ, drawing from supplies at the HQ's base.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 5/27/2019 10:44:40 PM >

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 10:47:17 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros

Along the same line I am a little curious as to why not seaplane tenders hold torpedoes for the PBYs. Or, do they?
Destroyer tenders do supply torpedoes?

Fred



Did US DDs and PBYs use the same torpedoes?

(in reply to Leandros)
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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 10:51:56 PM   
geofflambert


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The Wiki says that "torpedo racks were available" for the PBY but doesn't say they were ever used or if air crews were trained to attack with them.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 10:57:07 PM   
Korvar


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For those who don't know how to auto-stock torps at Air HQs with the proper TOEs:











You'll note that the upgrade option for this particular Air HQ is turned off, as the upgrade increases the aviation support to 90 but removes the torpedoes.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 11:05:09 PM   
Korvar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


Did US DDs and PBYs use the same torpedoes?


US DDs would most likely use the Mk 15 torpedo (of the 21" type) whereas aircraft carried the lighter Mk 13 aerial torpedo.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 11:22:21 PM   
Korvar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

The Wiki says that "torpedo racks were available" for the PBY but doesn't say they were ever used or if air crews were trained to attack with them.



Not only did PBYs use them, the US Navy's first torpedo night attack was on the IJN Main Body at Midway by a PBY:

quote:

Excerpt from the book Black Cats and Dumbos - WWII's Fighting PBYs by Mel Crocker

Ensign Jack Reid: Shadow The Transport Group

For the next two hours Ensign Reid shadowed the Transport Group,
flashing bits and pieces of messages as he dashed from one cloud to an­
other, frantically avoiding Japanese attempts to blast his PBY out of the
sky.

On Midway, Captain Simard, confused by the incomplete messages
radioed by Ensign Reid and three other PBYs flying the southwest sectors,
dispatched Colonel Sweeney with nine B-17s to make the first of several
high-level bombing attacks on the enemy transports and strike group — all
without confirmation of more than a few near-misses.

However, by now certain facts had become clear: The “Main Body”
had only transports and oilers and their escorts, no carriers. The strike-
force— that group most concerning the men of Midway — had not been
spotted. Somewhere north of the transport group spotted by Ensign Reid
and other PBYs from Midway was the true Main Body of the enemy
armada. With that force would come the carriers and the inevitable air
attack.

But over 1100 miles southeast of Midway, at Ford Island, several
hours before Lieutenant Lyle spotted the Japanese patrol boats and Ensign
Reid located the enemy transports, a plan was taking shape that would
involve the slow, lumbering PBYs in another first in U.S. Naval history.

In the early morning hours of June 3rd, three PBYs from VP24 and
one from VP51 were prepared for an 0700 flight to Midway. Ensign Allan
Rothenberg was patrol plane commander of the PBY detached from VP51;
Lieutenant (jg) Charles Hibberd, Lieutenant (jg) Douglas Davis, and Ensign
Gaylord Propst commanded the three PBYs from VP24. Not one of these
men nor any member of their crews had the slightest inkling of the hair-
raising mission unfolding for them at Midway.

Lieutenant W. L. Richards, the executive officer of VP44, one of the
PBY squadrons assigned to Midway, took command of the mission, flying
second chair to Lieutenant (jg) Hibberd. Around 2130 they began their
historic flight.

Though the weather was clear and the sea bathed in brilliant moon­
light, Ensigns Propst and Rothenberg lagged somewhat behind the
leaders, Hibberd and Davis. When the transport group was sighted
around 0130, Lieutenant Richards had Lieutenant Hibberd circle the ships
and begin his attack up the moon path.

Lieutenant Hibberd bore in on the attack, dropping altitude until he
was some 50 feet off the water. The PBY slipped closer and closer to the
large ship Hibberd had picked as his target; there was no sign of enemy
awareness. Finally, at around 800 yards, he released the torpedo and
yanked the PBY up and over his target. There was a moment of anxious waiting,
then the blister watch called out an explosion and fire in the bow of
the ship.

Lieutenant Davis made an additional circle of the ships and also at­
tacked up the moon path, and though he faced no return fire, his target
began rapid evasive maneuvering. Dropping down close to the water,
Lieutenant Davis waited until he was 200 yards astern of his quarry before
releasing his torpedo, flying into heavy anti-aircraft fire as he rose up and
over the ship. His plane was riddled with bullet holes but there was no
personnel injury or crippling damage.

Ensign Propst came on the scene about the time Lieutenant Davis was
clearing out and flew his PBY into a virtual hornet’s nest. Attacking in the
same manner as his predecessors, Propst hop-skipped over a screening
destroyer and released his torpedo at 800 yards, catching the full anti-air­
craft barrage of the transport group. How he brought the aircraft through
with only a few shrapnel holes defied explanation.

Ensign Rothenberg arrived much too late to effect a torpedo run with
much hope of accuracy and was forced to drop in the general direction of
the enemy group before turning back toward Midway.

As spectacular and daring as the Navy’s first night-air-torpedo-attack
was, and though it caught the enemy by complete surprise, the only dam­
age was to the tanker Akebono Maru from Lieutenant Hibberd’s first run.
The other dropped torpedoes simply missed. And the Akebono Maru was
patched up and back into formation without delaying the schedule of the
transports; but the Japanese hadn’t seen the last of PBY Catalinas.


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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 11:27:10 PM   
BillBrown


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In my scenario 1 game my upgraded Air HQs still have torpedo capability.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 11:30:38 PM   
Korvar


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What a torpedo-equipped PBY-5A looks like:



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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/27/2019 11:31:20 PM   
Korvar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

In my scenario 1 game my upgraded Air HQs still have torpedo capability.




I'm currently playing Scenario #9... so there may be database differences.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/28/2019 12:28:22 AM   
HansBolter


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In case it hasn't been mentioned the HQ has to be set to accept replacements in order for the TOE torpedo setting to work.

Have to be able to take replacements to have the stocks replenished automatically.

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Hans


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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/28/2019 1:23:37 AM   
geofflambert


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Thanks for that info, Korvar.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/28/2019 1:50:22 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

As first released, the game let certain BFs hold torpedo stocks. That was changed in a later release to only Air HQs holding torp stocks. The idea was to make distribution of torpedoes a bit less ubiquitous.


mmm - my memory must be holding out on me as I don't recall Base Force engineer units having access to torpedoes. But I'm more than willing to take your word on it.

I already keep torpedo-capable air groups at bases with a HQa or Command HQ either at the same base or within the Command Radius. I was just hoping there might-could be another option available that perhaps I was ignorant of - lol.






I think that a handful of "Command HQ" (non-Air HQa) used to enable torpedoes. IIRC, for the Japanese, it was their theater command (Southern Command). But I don't know if that example still holds true or not with the latest patches.


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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/28/2019 5:50:59 AM   
Capt Hornblower


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I don't believe BASE FORCES in WITP:AE ever had the capacity to supply torpedoes. I think that the section of the manual in question was a holdover from the earlier WITP game, in which such an ability for base forces may have been implemented. (This is not the only instance of the WITP:AE manual including information from its predecessor that isn't applicable in the later game.)

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/28/2019 3:00:08 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

I don't believe BASE FORCES in WITP:AE ever had the capacity to supply torpedoes. I think that the section of the manual in question was a holdover from the earlier WITP game, in which such an ability for base forces may have been implemented. (This is not the only instance of the WITP:AE manual including information from its predecessor that isn't applicable in the later game.)

USN BFs used to be able to carry torps (maybe not all of them). If I get the time I will re-install the base game from my CD and check it out. Otherwise, it is a tedious process searching the change logs for each update done.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/29/2019 8:46:00 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

the US Navy's first torpedo night attack was on the IJN Main Body at Midway by a PBY:


Ya beat me to it.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/29/2019 8:59:02 PM   
RangerJoe


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In a game, one turn after a Devestator put a torpedo into the Yamato, 3 PBYs put torpedos into her. One turn and one turn later, one torpedo killed the big BEAST.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 24
RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/29/2019 9:34:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13140
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

In a game, one turn after a Devestator put a torpedo into the Yamato, 3 PBYs put torpedos into her. One turn and one turn later, one torpedo killed the big BEAST.

I've set up a "No Surprise/Non-historic" opening and set all the PH PBYs to attack with torpedoes. B-17s did the Naval Search duties.
The AI set the CAP too high and the PBYs torpedoed half the KB carriers and some of the escorting ships. BBs, CAs & CLs in separate TFs sortied from PH and finished the cripples. Not realistic, but fun for an AFB to watch.

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RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/29/2019 10:54:30 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1319
Joined: 3/5/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I've set up a "No Surprise/Non-historic" opening and set all the PH PBYs to attack with torpedoes. B-17s did the Naval Search duties.
The AI set the CAP too high and the PBYs torpedoed half the KB carriers and some of the escorting ships. BBs, CAs & CLs in separate TFs sortied from PH and finished the cripples. Not realistic, but fun for an AFB to watch.

Cool!

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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Post #: 26
RE: Land Based Torpedo Supply 7.2.1.10.2.2 starts Pg 165 - 5/30/2019 8:59:28 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

I don't believe BASE FORCES in WITP:AE ever had the capacity to supply torpedoes. I think that the section of the manual in question was a holdover from the earlier WITP game, in which such an ability for base forces may have been implemented. (This is not the only instance of the WITP:AE manual including information from its predecessor that isn't applicable in the later game.)


The manual is not incorrect. The manual had to be finalised before the OOB of the official scenarios was signed off.

The dev scenario designers default decision was for all Air HQs in the official scenarios to have the capacity. It is a scenario designer decision as to whether a Base Force will have the capacity hence, hence why the manual deliberately uses the phrase "appropriate Base Forces" but does not similarly qualify Air HQs.

Alfred

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