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RE: Combat Model - 6/6/2019 12:38:27 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 7726
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: online 		It is in one of these posts I believe.

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Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 31
RE: Combat Model - 6/6/2019 2:20:27 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4405
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		I mean what actually occurs when you say this:

quote:

All land units have different attributes that fire in sequence affecting combat.

Round 1 – Artillery.
Round 2 – Defender Guns.
Round 3 – Tanks (halved in rugged terrain).
Round 4 – Attacker Guns (halved attacking).
Round 5 – Firearms.


For example a round by round example with the range of results possible and the tables used.
Or is combat a black box?

So when (x) amount of Tanks fire what does that mean? What numbers are compared? What is the relationship of experience to raw firepower etc. How are the different attributes weighted?

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Post #: 32
RE: Combat Model - 6/6/2019 2:30:09 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 7726
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: online 		The attributes of that unit fires. So say theoretically there is one unit with 10 artillery and that's it. It's attacking a unit with 10 firearms.

Artillery shots and applies damage 1st
Firearms shoots and applies damage last. So it takes artillery hits 1st before it gets to shoot.

It's just so different units can have slightly different flavors in different situations.

But generally most of it goes unnoticed.

The important thing to understand is the generalization of what a unit does.

Armor - retreats
Infantry - defends urban
Mountain - is better in hills or mountain
Mech - a little armor, a little infantry
Paratroopers - drop but are vulnerable

Specialties - used for specific situations... like heavy artillery for Leningrad works well.

The combat isn't a table like a traditional wargame. It is math. But it generally follows the results of tables. Most of the time 3:1 is a pretty 50/50 combat between attacks and defenders. Thus it is in this game. Anyodds over 3:1 have a better chance of retreating a unit.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 33
RE: Combat Model - 6/6/2019 9:03:46 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4405
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		With respect, your explanation so far is a black box.

Can you show me the maths or indeed the formula's.

I don't know if you are familiar with John Tillers Panzer Campaigns or Gary Grigsby's War in the East, but both provide maths, charts, tables, formula's (JT even provides examples) in the manuals.

Perhaps this can come later, but so far not very much is known how your combat model works, other than some very basic info you have provided.



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Post #: 34
RE: Combat Model - 6/7/2019 5:24:12 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 7726
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: online 		firearms, artillery, tanks, guns, tactical, strategic, naval air, surface, air to air all follow this formula

damage per attribute
readiness% X experience% X (attribute + advancement bonus) X strength X terrain modifier% X weather modifier% X resource modifier% X accuracy% X luck X (general comparison value) = damage

attackers also modify damage by 100% - (entrenchment * 10%)

for each damage inflicted {
random roll < defense * experience%
60% chance takes damage
40% chance takes extra effectiveness loss of 3% and no damage
else no damage
}

Naval each damage can cause 2 levels of double current damage allowing for the mountain of variability in naval combat and emphasizing support groups like cruisers and patrol groups
30% chance 1st check
10% chance 2nd check

AA guns have a 1 in 6 chance to do damage to an aircraft before it hits the target.
ASW is a square root function of the sum of all ASW factors * the formula above of the combined fleet ASW.

of course there are modifiers for specific functions like tanks in cities, mountain units, garrison status units attacking, etc.

The system is based on a single formula system modified by an accuracy variable. This allows modders to adjust attributes of units and get a feel for system much easier than a complex set of calculations. I didn't make the combat system as intricate as War in the East because the game isn't as complicated. SC3 has a very similar less complicated system but the important thing is that it works well within the game allowing for all the situations to play out. Also a more complicated system makes designing A.I. harder.

The more complicated you make a system the easier it is to exploit or break. So I gave it exactly the level it needed to play for the game. Later I will look into writing a full document on the mechanics.

There are no individual vehicles in the game because it is a corp level, with some divisions, type of game. Think closer to World in Flames with a map 4x as large.

Does this answer your question sufficiently? If you have specifics just reply.

_____________________________

Games worked on

Designer of the Strategic Command 2 products
- Brute Force (mod)
- Assault on Communism
- Assault on Democracy

Designer of the Strategic Command 3 products
- Map Image Importer

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 35
RE: Combat Model - 6/8/2019 3:58:36 AM   
Michael T


Posts: 4405
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Thanks, that's a good insight to how things work. For the time being anyway. Once we some practical results and the variations of identical attacks and some tests etc more questions will follow I am sure.

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Post #: 36
RE: Combat Model - 6/8/2019 9:43:59 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 4062
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		For those interested, I find this book worth a reading:
https://www.amazon.com/Military-Power-Explaining-Victory-Defeat-dp-8170492300/dp/8170492300/ref=mt_hardcover?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1560030104


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Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 37
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