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CW and French Convoys at start of game

 
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CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/17/2019 8:35:18 AM   
warspite1


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Does anyone have a guide for where to place these on initial set-up please?

I recall from some time ago when I tried doing a step by step process, involving reverting to the Production Planning screen as I went along, this caused a madexcept. As a result I would rather not look at the PP screen while I'm doing this.

I would like to save time in my current game and so suggestions would be welcome just for the initial set-up.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/17/2019 9:03:07 AM   
Orm


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Peskpesk and I made several CW, and French, convoy setups for the AI.

You can find them here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=978889&mpage=10&key=#

Here is variant 1a. One of my favourites.

69 CP Used, 12 CP in reserve.

Reserves: Liverpool 4 CP, Gibraltar 4, Aden 2, Freetown 2.




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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/17/2019 5:54:42 PM   
paulderynck


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Personally I like putting the French CPs along the western part of a line from Australia to Canada. If the French resources are to be picked up, the CW CPs can do that. With one more CW CP by Mexico and one in the Caribbean, it is easy to pick up the New Caledonia resource and get it to France in SO39 & ND39 when you need one less going to the UK because of its PM. (The only bad part of this is getting MWiF to cooperate with optimal convoy routing of resources when you do it.) Although France and CW can't lend to each other and are neutral to start, that does not mean you can't set up knowing they can carry each others resources by turn-end.

When it looks like Vichy will be declared, the French CPs RTB with the ones in the western pacific going to New Caledonia. The objective is to get them as FF CPs or at least so far OoS to be of no use to the Axis. So 6 to 8 French CPs end up in New Caledonia depending on whether you want NEI oil to be stored in Australia early on. No more than 6 can be on the line to Canada as that is the limit for reaching New Caledonia on RTB.

I also like to split the CPs in the Med so there's 1 French in each zone and any more (depending on what is being routed through the Med) are CW. This partially counteracts the strategy of Italy DoWing only one of CW and France. If the axis attack both with surprise, then French CPs are chosen to sink first.

I usually end up with 6 or so spare CPs which are positioned to help with a line around Africa if the Med is attacked early and/or to reinforce the Bay of Biscay if Axis subs get lucky early.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 5/17/2019 6:02:06 PM >


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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/18/2019 2:01:37 AM   
composer99


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Between them, the CW and France begin the game with 91 cp.

Here's how I like to distribute them, presuming you're not playing with Food in Flames

In a game with no oil...

CW Shipping
- 2 resources from Australia to Canada - 10 cp
- 6 resources from Canada to UK - 18 cp
- 4 oil from Caribbean to UK - 16 cp
- 3 resources from Africa to UK - 12 cp
- 2 resources from India to UK (routed around Horn of Africa) - 16 cp

That fills the factories in the UK for 72 cp

French Shipping
- 1 resource from Indochina to France - 6 cp
- 1 resource from Senegal to France - 2 cp
- 1 resource from Iraq to France - 2 cp
- 1 resource from New Caledonia to France - 8 cp

That maxes out early French production for 18 cp

There's not a lot of reserve to start - only 3 cp! - but you're hopefully getting Danish, Dutch, and Belgian cp, along with the pittance of early production, Polish, and Yugoslav cp, and potentially (though not often) the Greek cp windfall as well. Those extra cp will allow you to make use of the resource in Cyprus (great for lending to France) along with those in Dutch Guyana and Belgian Congo.


In a game with oil...

CW Shipping
Since you can't save oil in neutral minors, and considering I like to collect oil in key places instead of leaving it in, say, Burma, here's what I like to do:

- 1 oil from Persia to Egypt - 0 cp - if you need to, and have 2 spare cp, you can send it to India instead
- 1 oil from Burma to India - 1 cp
- 1 oil from NEI to India - 2 cp
- 1 oil from NEI to Australia - 2 cp (the game usually defaults to the Palembang oil being lent to the CW, meaning you can ship it out of Batavia)

India, and to a lesser extent Australia, becomes your oil storage until you are getting enough non-oil to start saving it in the UK proper.

- 2 resources from India to UK - 16 cp
- 2 resources from Australia to Canada - 10 cp
- 5 resources, 1 oil from Canada to UK - 18 cp
- 4 oil from Caribbean to UK - 16 cp
- 3 resources from Africa to UK - 12 cp

That's 77 cp to fill UK factories and move oil around.

French shipping
- 1 oil from Iraq to France - 2 cp
- 1 resource from Senegal to France - 2 cp
- 1 resource from Indochina to France - 6 cp

There aren't enough convoys to bring in the New Caledonia resource, but that's okay because you're saving the Iraqi oil early on. It's the best you can do for 10 cp.

That leaves 4 cp to spare - still not a lot.

Oil games can be more convoy-intensive if you want to save oil in the UK proper. If you're okay with saving oil in Canada, it's not as big of a deal.



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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/19/2019 6:31:37 AM   
warspite1


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Gents thanks for taking the time to respond. This has helped me at least get the ball rolling (good or bad). Its so long since I've had to worry about the joys of CW and French convoys I was totally in the dark. At least now I'm able to stagger round in the gloom and who knows, I might eventually find light at the end of the tunnel.....

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/20/2019 5:59:49 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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I like to send a lot of stuff from the Commonwealth to France in Nov/Dec 1939 - the second turn.

That means I have all but 1 French and Commonwealth convoys at sea to start the game. The goal is to get 1 oil, 5 non-oil and 3 build points to France so they can build a lot of stuff on the second turn. The Commonwealth gets only 4 or 5 build points that turn if you do this.

One of the new things I discovered is that you can send France the Trinidad oil with 1 convoy - with the destination Fort-de-??? in the Caribbean (or Mouths of the Amazon). The oil can be used to reorganize French units in subsequent turns. If that island goes Vichy, the Axis won't be able to make any use of the oil.

---

There are dozens of good ways to place the Allied convoys. Which keeps MWIF interesting - even to the most experienced player.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/20/2019 6:24:24 PM   
paulderynck


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Some slight gaminess there. Imagine France meeting all its oil needs with oil saved in Tahiti. The rule change in CE where oil not stored in the HC is half-value was an attempt to do something about that.

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Paul

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/21/2019 12:37:28 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I like to send a lot of stuff from the Commonwealth to France in Nov/Dec 1939 - the second turn.

That means I have all but 1 French and Commonwealth convoys at sea to start the game. The goal is to get 1 oil, 5 non-oil and 3 build points to France so they can build a lot of stuff on the second turn. The Commonwealth gets only 4 or 5 build points that turn if you do this.

One of the new things I discovered is that you can send France the Trinidad oil with 1 convoy - with the destination Fort-de-??? in the Caribbean (or Mouths of the Amazon). The oil can be used to reorganize French units in subsequent turns. If that island goes Vichy, the Axis won't be able to make any use of the oil.

---

There are dozens of good ways to place the Allied convoys. Which keeps MWIF interesting - even to the most experienced player.


I like that one too. It will almost make sure that Germany has to use both offensive chits to take out France...

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Peter

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/21/2019 1:32:08 PM   
gw15


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Yes, in my games with Steve and Peter they always "make" me use both offensive chits. I never get a break with those guys.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/21/2019 1:45:57 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


One of the new things I discovered is that you can send France the Trinidad oil with 1 convoy - with the destination Fort-de-??? in the Caribbean (or Mouths of the Amazon). The oil can be used to reorganize French units in subsequent turns. If that island goes Vichy, the Axis won't be able to make any use of the oil.


Why can't Vichy use up that oil? It should be able to use it to reorganize their ships at sea. Or possibly make a convoy route to the oil if they have enough CPs.

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Intend attacking at dawn high water.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/21/2019 4:56:43 PM   
paulderynck


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You need to have a supply path to the oil you use, and the location it is in has to go Vichy. Otherwise, no problem.

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Paul

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/21/2019 6:22:11 PM   
Courtenay


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You don't need to trace a supply path for to reorganize ships at sea. The problem is that it could only be used to reorganize Vichy ships at sea, of which there probably won't be many. It couldn't reorganize any other country's units because of cooperation rules.

< Message edited by Courtenay -- 5/21/2019 6:23:35 PM >


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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/22/2019 2:24:00 AM   
composer99


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Also, if and when the CW goes to war with Vichy France, it would be able to prevent tracing a supply path to any oil remaining. Although once you think France is about to fall is a good time to turn off the lending spigot.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/22/2019 6:57:36 PM   
Centuur


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RAW:

Vichy French naval and aircraft units at sea (except for convoy
points) must always return to base during the return to base step unless
Vichy France is hostile to an Allied major power.


No Vichy french ships at sea. Just some merchantmen which are usually organized and do not need oil...

Of course, you can build the necessary convoy points to get that oil point back to Vichy, but only if the CW let you do so. A good CW player should DoW Vichy as soon as possible, especially if Syria went Vichy. No Iraqi oil should fall into German hands...



< Message edited by Centuur -- 5/22/2019 7:00:49 PM >


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Peter

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/22/2019 7:55:29 PM   
paulderynck


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Can Vichy build CPs? A strict interpretation of the Vichyfication rule is "no" although it is often permitted as a house rule and is allowed in CE. I don't recall any errata or FAQ saying it is allowed in RAW7 and it's been too long now to remember if MWiF lets Vichy do it.

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Paul

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/23/2019 6:12:02 PM   
rkr1958


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Can Vichy build CPs? A strict interpretation of the Vichyfication rule is "no" although it is often permitted as a house rule and is allowed in CE. I don't recall any errata or FAQ saying it is allowed in RAW7 and it's been too long now to remember if MWiF lets Vichy do it.
MWiF does indeed allow Vichy to build CP's. Take a look at "Jan/Feb" in this axis production spiral from May/Jun 1942 and you'll see a Vichy CP in the production queue.





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Ronnie

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/24/2019 2:14:35 AM   
paulderynck


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Judging from the other "Zombie" thread, this did not go well. I am still sure that RAW7 did not allow Vichy to build naval units other than repairing what might be in the Repair Pool.

I think this is a bug and MWiF should have not allowed the build.

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Paul

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/24/2019 11:50:30 AM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Judging from the other "Zombie" thread, this did not go well. I am still sure that RAW7 did not allow Vichy to build naval units other than repairing what might be in the Repair Pool.

I think this is a bug and MWiF should have not allowed the build.


That ruling has been made a long, long time ago. I think it has been asked to ADG at that time and Harry agreed that Vichy should be able to build convoys.

And there's no bug in the zombie thread. The convoy could be placed in a Vichy colony in South America.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 5/24/2019 8:45:52 PM   
paulderynck


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I'm glad MWiF allows it. Good designer decision. But not supported in anything written to do with RAW7 rules.

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RE: CW and French Convoys at start of game - 6/24/2019 5:55:50 PM   
Essro

 

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Convoy management in MWiF is such a pain. So easy with paper. What am I missing?

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