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OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters?

 
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OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 2:01:04 AM   
Footslogger


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I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 3:52:48 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s



Without even watching the clip I can say that IJN subs made the trip to Germany to pick up technology. IIRC, Ultra intercepts resulted in tracking of at least one sub and sinking it off Africa.

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 7:42:45 AM   
LeeChard

 

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Entirely plausible to me. The Japanese were very active in the Indian ocean.

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 8:11:37 AM   
Fishbed

 

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Just watched the 30sec, cant have sound here nor time, but it looks to me it's about midget subs - and thus probably about the midget attacks on Madagascar. Which happened, and was one of the most sucessful midget sub attacks of the war (HMS Ramillies did eat a torp, actually).

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 1:21:55 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s



Without even watching the clip I can say that IJN subs made the trip to Germany to pick up technology. IIRC, Ultra intercepts resulted in tracking of at least one sub and sinking it off Africa.


Are you certain that it was a Japanese sub and not Italian. The only true Axis cargo subs with the range were operated by the Italians and they were sent on voyages to Japan to drop off German tech and return with strategic materials.

Alfred

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Post #: 5
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 1:41:50 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s


warspite1

Any reason for thinking this may be inaccurate? Looks pretty good to me - though I only know of the attack and damaging of the Ramillies and the sinking (albeit not permanent) of British Loyalty - and not the aftermath.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/1/2019 1:42:28 PM >


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Post #: 6
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 3:00:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13232
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s



Without even watching the clip I can say that IJN subs made the trip to Germany to pick up technology. IIRC, Ultra intercepts resulted in tracking of at least one sub and sinking it off Africa.


Are you certain that it was a Japanese sub and not Italian. The only true Axis cargo subs with the range were operated by the Italians and they were sent on voyages to Japan to drop off German tech and return with strategic materials.

Alfred

This clip says a Japanese sub visited in 1942. It may have refueled enroute in a neutral country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XmSZH-3fE8

And this link describes I-52's loss in the Atlantic while carrying gold to Germany ...
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/18/science/lost-japanese-sub-with-2-tons-of-axis-gold-found-on-floor-of-atlantic.html

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 5/1/2019 3:02:26 PM >


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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 7
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 3:33:30 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24018
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I saw this video and would like to know if it is accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChKhxd5qW4s



Without even watching the clip I can say that IJN subs made the trip to Germany to pick up technology. IIRC, Ultra intercepts resulted in tracking of at least one sub and sinking it off Africa.


Are you certain that it was a Japanese sub and not Italian. The only true Axis cargo subs with the range were operated by the Italians and they were sent on voyages to Japan to drop off German tech and return with strategic materials.

Alfred


Japanese submarines made the long trip to / from Germany as well.

In addition to I-52 (the best known Japanese 'golden submarine':

Only five other submarines had attempted this intercontinental voyage during World War II: I-30 (April 1942), I-8 (June 1943), I-34 (October 1943), I-29 (November 1943), and German submarine U-511 (August 1943). Of these, I-30 was sunk by a mine, I-34 by the British submarine HMS Taurus, and I-29 by the United States submarine Sawfish (assisted by Ultra intelligence).

From the Wiki for I-52.

There's even a German language video on the arrival:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GyQ3TBbGUY

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Post #: 8
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/1/2019 11:18:22 PM   
spence

 

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Photos etc (and some ULTRA intercepts) re the sinking of I-52 by the USS Bogue Hunter-Killer Group. Notice that on the page below that there are two IJN flags painted on the bridgewing. The second "Japanese" submarine was originally U-1224 and was transferred to the IJN as RO-501 in the Pacific and apparently was being used to transfer material/technology between Germany and Japan when it was sunk in May 1944.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/I-52/I-52.htm

BTW the original video does report on the most successful use of the midget submarines by the Japanese. Five of them were used at Pearl Harbor but apparently accomplished nothing (although claims have been made to the contrary Alan Zimm examines this question specifically in his book "Attack on Pearl Harbor" and quite convincingly accounts for each of their 10 torpedoes). He also criticizes Adm Yamamoto's decision to bow to allow the midgets to attempt to enter the harbor before the planes attacked and subsequently attack at the same time as the planes (they originally were supposed to enter the harbor and lie on the bottom within attacking during the night following the planes attack).

< Message edited by spence -- 5/1/2019 11:30:35 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 9
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/2/2019 10:50:44 AM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Photos etc (and some ULTRA intercepts) re the sinking of I-52 by the USS Bogue Hunter-Killer Group. Notice that on the page below that there are two IJN flags painted on the bridgewing. The second "Japanese" submarine was originally U-1224 and was transferred to the IJN as RO-501 in the Pacific and apparently was being used to transfer material/technology between Germany and Japan when it was sunk in May 1944.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/I-52/I-52.htm

BTW the original video does report on the most successful use of the midget submarines by the Japanese. Five of them were used at Pearl Harbor but apparently accomplished nothing (although claims have been made to the contrary Alan Zimm examines this question specifically in his book "Attack on Pearl Harbor" and quite convincingly accounts for each of their 10 torpedoes). He also criticizes Adm Yamamoto's decision to bow to allow the midgets to attempt to enter the harbor before the planes attacked and subsequently attack at the same time as the planes (they originally were supposed to enter the harbor and lie on the bottom within attacking during the night following the planes attack).

+1
Zimm's logic is impeccable.

BTW, a reason for the British invasion of Madagascar was to stop the Japanese from using it as a sub base. Forgive me if this has been mentioned.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 10
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/2/2019 11:08:53 AM   
warspite1


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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Photos etc (and some ULTRA intercepts) re the sinking of I-52 by the USS Bogue Hunter-Killer Group. Notice that on the page below that there are two IJN flags painted on the bridgewing. The second "Japanese" submarine was originally U-1224 and was transferred to the IJN as RO-501 in the Pacific and apparently was being used to transfer material/technology between Germany and Japan when it was sunk in May 1944.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/I-52/I-52.htm

BTW the original video does report on the most successful use of the midget submarines by the Japanese. Five of them were used at Pearl Harbor but apparently accomplished nothing (although claims have been made to the contrary Alan Zimm examines this question specifically in his book "Attack on Pearl Harbor" and quite convincingly accounts for each of their 10 torpedoes). He also criticizes Adm Yamamoto's decision to bow to allow the midgets to attempt to enter the harbor before the planes attacked and subsequently attack at the same time as the planes (they originally were supposed to enter the harbor and lie on the bottom within attacking during the night following the planes attack).


BTW, a reason for the British invasion of Madagascar was to stop the Japanese from using it as a sub base. Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
warspite1

Oh for ******* Sake Zorch. What the ****** do you mean by polluting this ***** thread with your ****** nonsense? You want ******* forgiveness for ********* stating THAT? What the ****** is wrong with you? NO - and I think I speak for every man, woman and child on this forum - we will NOT ****** forgive that. Now, do us all a ***** favour and ***** do one, ya ******

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/2/2019 11:09:10 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 11
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/2/2019 3:54:21 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24018
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Photos etc (and some ULTRA intercepts) re the sinking of I-52 by the USS Bogue Hunter-Killer Group. Notice that on the page below that there are two IJN flags painted on the bridgewing. The second "Japanese" submarine was originally U-1224 and was transferred to the IJN as RO-501 in the Pacific and apparently was being used to transfer material/technology between Germany and Japan when it was sunk in May 1944.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/I-52/I-52.htm

BTW the original video does report on the most successful use of the midget submarines by the Japanese. Five of them were used at Pearl Harbor but apparently accomplished nothing (although claims have been made to the contrary Alan Zimm examines this question specifically in his book "Attack on Pearl Harbor" and quite convincingly accounts for each of their 10 torpedoes). He also criticizes Adm Yamamoto's decision to bow to allow the midgets to attempt to enter the harbor before the planes attacked and subsequently attack at the same time as the planes (they originally were supposed to enter the harbor and lie on the bottom within attacking during the night following the planes attack).


BTW, a reason for the British invasion of Madagascar was to stop the Japanese from using it as a sub base. Forgive me if this has been mentioned.
warspite1

Oh for ******* Sake Zorch. What the ****** do you mean by polluting this ***** thread with your ****** nonsense? You want ******* forgiveness for ********* stating THAT? What the ****** is wrong with you? NO - and I think I speak for every man, woman and child on this forum - we will NOT ****** forgive that. Now, do us all a ***** favour and ***** do one, ya ******


Who **** in your ****** this morning?

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 12
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/2/2019 3:56:15 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Who **** in your ****** this morning?
warspite1

Seriously? Was there ANY need for that kind of language? Disgraceful...


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 13
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 3:12:24 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Of these, I-30 was sunk by a mine, I-34 by the British submarine HMS Taurus, and I-29 by the United States submarine Sawfish (assisted by Ultra intelligence).




I am surprised so many were lost, I mean, they had the entire ocean to hide and it is not easy to catch a submarine that is not actively hunting prey

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 14
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 4:43:44 AM   
geofflambert


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I am seriously ODing on asterisks. I had a childhood allergy for them and I haven't altogether recovered from that. Please everyone stop using so many asterisks!

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 4:50:40 AM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Who **** in your ****** this morning?


Besides, "psssed" requires six asterisks but you were correct that "cereal" requires only six, but I have no idea why you needed to censor the word "cereal".

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Post #: 16
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 5:08:52 AM   
geofflambert


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Incidentally, "Cap'n Crunch" requires eleven asterisks. Yes, the apostrophe gets its very own asterisk.

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 5:33:47 AM   
geofflambert


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There is some academic discussion about whether a particular string of asterisks might represent "Cap'n Crunch" as opposed to "Cor'n Flakes".

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 6:18:57 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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But "Gorn Flakes" needs one less asterisk.

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 1:28:56 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

I am surprised so many were lost, I mean, they had the entire ocean to hide and it is not easy to catch a submarine that is not actively hunting prey



The ocean is a big place to hide when you're trying not to be found but it gets a lot smaller when the other guys are reading your mail (ULTRA). The USS Bogue Hunter-Killer Group had radio intercepts/decrypts (ULTRA) for both the I-52 heading for Germany to buy technology and the RO-501/(U-1224) which was returning to Japan with a load of technology when sunk. IIRC both subs required refueling along the way by German 'milch cows'. The Allies made a concerted effort during 1944-45 specifically kill the 'milch cows' and were on to their communications.

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 3:48:18 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Incidentally, "Cap'n Crunch" requires eleven asterisks. Yes, the apostrophe gets its very own asterisk.

What about Alphabits cereal? Do you have to include the asterisks inside the box?

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RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 5:38:48 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Incidentally, "Cap'n Crunch" requires eleven asterisks. Yes, the apostrophe gets its very own asterisk.

What about Alphabits cereal? Do you have to include the asterisks inside the box?






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 22
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 6:10:22 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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Even in the depths of my attention deficit dis.....ooh! Piece of candy....order, I have a difficult time understanding how you go from Japanese sub near Africa to breakfast cereal. I might have understood if it was donuts, but breakfast cereal? Now you've done it! I have to go have a bowl of Corn Pops much to the terror of my bathroom scales....no, there are no Gorn scales or fish scales in my bathroom. Not sure if Gorns have scales other than the oddly transmitted diseases.....

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Post #: 23
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/3/2019 8:46:13 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Even in the depths of my attention deficit dis.....ooh! Piece of candy....order, I have a difficult time understanding how you go from Japanese sub near Africa to breakfast cereal. I might have understood if it was donuts, but breakfast cereal? Now you've done it! I have to go have a bowl of Corn Pops much to the terror of my bathroom scales....no, there are no Gorn scales or fish scales in my bathroom. Not sure if Gorns have scales other than the oddly transmitted diseases.....

So there is no Justice in your bathroom! Anything goes? No judgements?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 24
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/4/2019 3:04:58 AM   
rockmedic109

 

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I do not pass judgement in the bathroom, just waste matter. If their was justice in my bathroom, I'd be arrested for creating biological terror weapons. And pretty much everything goes. Literally, figuratively, philosophically, and frequently, painfully.

Excuse me, I have to go.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 25
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/4/2019 4:01:07 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 13232
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

I do not pass judgement in the bathroom, just waste matter. If their was justice in my bathroom, I'd be arrested for creating biological terror weapons. And pretty much everything goes. Literally, figuratively, philosophically, and frequently, painfully.

Excuse me, I have to go.

OK - no Scales of Justice in there so whatever happens in there is between you and your ... reflection.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 26
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/6/2019 7:36:10 AM   
ChuckBerger

 

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The midget attack on Madagascar was the most successful launched by the IJN, but the results were not strategically important. The old BB Ramillies was damaged and a tanker sunk. Ramillies was out of action for a year, but she was old and only suitable for convoy escort and bombardment duties anyway.

Far more significant was the open season on shipping in the Mozambique Channel that IJN subs mounted at the same time as the midget sub raid. About 6 IJN cruisers sank over 20 merchant ships around Madagascar in May-July 1942. Shipping in that area was not generally convoyed. Had the IJN committed more subs to strategic warfare in the Indian Ocean, they could have made a far more serious contribution to the strategic sub war the Axis were pursuing in the Atlantic.

As for the long-distance subs, I-8 is the only IJN sub to have made the round-trip to Europe successfully. She almost survived the war, was lost only in March 1945 in an attack off Okinawa.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 27
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/6/2019 12:53:20 PM   
Lecivius


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From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Even in the depths of my attention deficit dis.....ooh! Piece of candy....order, I have a difficult time understanding how you go from Japanese sub near Africa to breakfast cereal. I might have understood if it was donuts, but breakfast cereal? Now you've done it! I have to go have a bowl of Corn Pops much to the terror of my bathroom scales....no, there are no Gorn scales or fish scales in my bathroom. Not sure if Gorns have scales other than the oddly transmitted diseases.....

So there is no Justice in your bathroom! Anything goes? No judgements?










Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 28
RE: OT: IJN Submarines in African Waters? - 5/6/2019 5:55:23 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 5886
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Even in the depths of my attention deficit dis.....ooh! Piece of candy....order, I have a difficult time understanding how you go from Japanese sub near Africa to breakfast cereal. I might have understood if it was donuts, but breakfast cereal? Now you've done it! I have to go have a bowl of Corn Pops much to the terror of my bathroom scales....no, there are no Gorn scales or fish scales in my bathroom. Not sure if Gorns have scales other than the oddly transmitted diseases.....

So there is no Justice in your bathroom! Anything goes? No judgements?








A Star Trek / GoT crossover? Oh the Horror!

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 29
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