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The Next War 1979 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. larry

 
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The Next War 1979 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. larry - 4/13/2019 5:24:15 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Aledgedly this is Damon's favorite scenario so I thought I ought to really give it the old college try to give him a good game. I opened his file and it ran the combat replay and then it went through the interturn stuff and then I zoomed out and used the OOB to find the start of the aircraft category so I could go through all the aircraft assigning missions and moving them to the best spots before I move anything else. So I look under the hood of this the very first aircraft unit and I see where someone has deployed this bad boy with his range clipped to 25 hexes. I'm wondering why of course. The full range could be 53 if I choose and I'm wondering why I wouldn't want to do that. I can't think of anything that would prevent it. After I park it in a more permanent spot I might want to clip the range maybe depending on the situation. Right now I'm invading an enemy country and I need a lot of INT and a sprinkling of CS and a lot of AS with multiple airfield strikes. I have a smallish air shock advantage that I'd like to take advantage of. So my boys will fly with three dot settings for a while.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/23/2019 6:51:18 PM >


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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/13/2019 8:43:22 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Hi, Larry! Yes, you will find that most of your aircraft (not sure about Helos ... I think all the Helos were already full range) start out w/ their wings clipped. What I've done (both as NATO and as WP) is set them to full range as I get to them in the OOB ... unless there is some compelling reason to keep them limited to a certain area ... sometimes they wander too far ... like into East Germany LoL and sometimes I limit (for e.g.) the Dutch or Belgium AF to focus only on their areas of operation ... trying to keep away from furballing ... furballs (I've seen so far in my Austria hot seat) *ALWAYS* get shot down.

Looking forward to the game!! D

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 4/13/2019 8:44:54 PM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/13/2019 10:57:54 PM   
mussey


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You guys are making me proud. I'll be watching, let me know if you have any questions. The Soviets have 6 airborne divs that can fly a long way. I set it for a little more than one full division per game turn that can drop. I'm sensitive to any supply issues, so let me know what you think as the game progresses. I've made many tweaks since Beta, and hope to have the 1st Official Expanded ready in several weeks, so anything you uncover here that hasn't already been addressed can make the cut.

Good luck to both of you!

_____________________________

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The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/13/2019 11:19:54 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I'm at a good stopping spot so I thought I'd take a minute to update you guys on what's happening. I've been moving units and assigning attacks and the front lines are changing. I'm trying to move something up adjacent to each Allied unit that I can reach so they might get stuck where they are and can't retreat. I'm playing this by ear, no plan, just reward success and hold where it's especially hard. I'm moving aircraft forward as I capture the few airfields between the two sides. I've been through about half of the OOB and I've already discovered about 6 airborne / heliborne divisions and I need to find a target for some of them. I'm wondering if I should use as many LZ's as I can or should I concentrate the troops in some strategic spot. Let me study the map some more and I'll get back to you on that.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/13/2019 11:20:42 PM >


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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/14/2019 4:03:23 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I'm at the point in the OOB when I'm moving aircraft and I'm moving most of them as far forward as I can park them. I'm targetting Damon's SSM's and several airfields and helicopter bases. And one HQ unit. I've got attacks set up to start the takedown of the Berlin defenders. I need the rails that run through there for good supply flow. Plus the airfields there. Almost every unit I own is moving. The air losses meter is showing some great numbers. I've got about 5 CS missions scheduled and everybody else is flying AS with some 4 airfield strikes scheduled. I'm aming at using the broadfront approach that Eisenhower used in Europe. And the first breakthrough becomes the next thrust spot. I've chosen the "invade Austria" TO and I've moved units adjacent to the exclusion zone ready to zoom into contact. I'm curious as to what Damon is going to do with Austria.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 4/14/2019 4:09:26 PM >


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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/14/2019 6:12:46 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Hey you guys....I just had a third CTD since starting my moves. I'm not sure what's causing it but it seems to happen when I'm scrolling around the map. I just thought you guys might want to know about this. I lost about an hour and a half of work.

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/14/2019 7:22:03 PM   
mussey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey you guys....I just had a third CTD since starting my moves. I'm not sure what's causing it but it seems to happen when I'm scrolling around the map. I just thought you guys might want to know about this. I lost about an hour and a half of work.


Larry, that happened to me several times before, both when I had multiple TOAW programs launched (I was editing in between play moves). I'm no expert on programing so not sure if this really caused it or not. When I closed the other TOAW programs I didn't experience it again... Surely, there are larger TOAW scenarios than this, that don't crash?

_____________________________

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The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/15/2019 1:41:12 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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About 16:00 or so I needed to take a break so I started watching cops chasing bank robbers through the streets of Miami and then one thing led to another and I look up and it's 18:39 already. I'm addicted to cop car chases I guess. Okay back to my moves. Break's over.




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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/15/2019 2:38:11 AM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey you guys....I just had a third CTD since starting my moves. I'm not sure what's causing it but it seems to happen when I'm scrolling around the map. I just thought you guys might want to know about this. I lost about an hour and a half of work.


:) Yep, so it isn't just me ... I have found that eliminating the "mini-map" as well as air report seems to mitigate the problem, whatever it is. .... also, save save save after you make those big moves ... or just after a few minutes of staring at the screen. I've just gotten into the habit of saving every couple of minutes, so it is only mildly irritating ...

Also, naval movement seems a bit ... herky-jerky ... so that's a def. "save" point, both before and after a naval move ...

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/15/2019 7:59:38 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

... So I look under the hood of this the very first aircraft unit and I see where someone has deployed this bad boy with his range clipped to 25 hexes. I'm wondering why of course.


Thinking about it, I suspect (could be wrong) that they are set that way to keep down any fur balls during the inter-turn move .... Just a wild guess, but maybe that might be at least one reason ....

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 10
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/15/2019 8:41:32 PM   
mussey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

... So I look under the hood of this the very first aircraft unit and I see where someone has deployed this bad boy with his range clipped to 25 hexes. I'm wondering why of course.


Thinking about it, I suspect (could be wrong) that they are set that way to keep down any fur balls during the inter-turn move .... Just a wild guess, but maybe that might be at least one reason ....



When first playing with extended air ranges, the WP took what I thought to be excessive losses. They flew reckless missions with little gain/result. Let me know if you think this needs reconsideration, I want the first-time player be able to jump-in with without having to massively spend time re-ranging the air units. As of now, the WP ranges are about 10-15 hexes inside NATO, while NATO is ranged up to the border, give or take.

Let me know what you think.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 11
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/16/2019 12:12:12 AM   
Hellen_slith


Posts: 706
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

... So I look under the hood of this the very first aircraft unit and I see where someone has deployed this bad boy with his range clipped to 25 hexes. I'm wondering why of course.


Thinking about it, I suspect (could be wrong) that they are set that way to keep down any fur balls during the inter-turn move .... Just a wild guess, but maybe that might be at least one reason ....



When first playing with extended air ranges, the WP took what I thought to be excessive losses. They flew reckless missions with little gain/result. Let me know if you think this needs reconsideration, I want the first-time player be able to jump-in with without having to massively spend time re-ranging the air units. As of now, the WP ranges are about 10-15 hexes inside NATO, while NATO is ranged up to the border, give or take.

Let me know what you think.


I, for one, think that the clipped ranges @ turn 1 are fine .... I'm finding ways that are not that difficult to set unit ranges to max, using the "next unit" button when you get into the air units formations ....

Enjoying that aspect of the game, the "air war" ... your mileage may vary!!!!!
D

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 12
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/16/2019 12:26:02 AM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

... So I look under the hood of this the very first aircraft unit and I see where someone has deployed this bad boy with his range clipped to 25 hexes. I'm wondering why of course.


Thinking about it, I suspect (could be wrong) that they are set that way to keep down any fur balls during the inter-turn move .... Just a wild guess, but maybe that might be at least one reason ....



I want the first-time player be able to jump-in with without having to massively spend time re-ranging the air units. As of now, the WP ranges are about 10-15 hexes inside NATO, while NATO is ranged up to the border, give or take.

Let me know what you think.


Well, it *is* a monster scene, based upon a monster game, so perhaps not suited to first-time player in first place .... BUT, I do distinctly recall, when I unboxed that sweet sweet game back in 1980 or so, and started to break apart the air units to place them ....

I think the air war, as you have it set right now (w/ limited ranges on air units @ turn 1) faithfully reproduces that sense of "awe" when we first unboxed the game and tried to play it.

IIRC, that was one of the best parts of the game, setting up our air forces ... so, I think it is good as is, at least from that standpoint ... nostalgia, that is.

Great scene!! D

(in reply to mussey)
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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/16/2019 6:04:18 AM   
cathar1244

 

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quote:

IIRC, that was one of the best parts of the game, setting up our air forces ... so, I think it is good as is, at least from that standpoint ... nostalgia, that is.

Great scene!! D


Indeed, it made a strong impression. Years later, I drove on an Autobahn and saw an exit sign for Zerbst. Clicked right away in memory -- Soviet airfield!! Of course, the Soviets had been gone for a couple of years at that point ... but yeah, the old board game was a feast for the mind and the eyes.

Cheers

(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 14
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 5:21:52 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

IIRC, that was one of the best parts of the game, setting up our air forces ... so, I think it is good as is, at least from that standpoint ... nostalgia, that is.

Great scene!! D


Indeed, it made a strong impression. Years later, I drove on an Autobahn and saw an exit sign for Zerbst. Clicked right away in memory -- Soviet airfield!! Of course, the Soviets had been gone for a couple of years at that point ... but yeah, the old board game was a feast for the mind and the eyes.

Cheers


Same here, I was in REFORGER '84 as part of 2nd Armored deploy (502 AG Co) and got to see a lot of the sites that are noted in game not long after it came out. I have a special place in my heart for Celle / Hanover / Maastricht from that experience. Looking through some old stuff the other day, I found the address of a girl I met in Holland, back in 84. It was a three-week romance, but was not to be. Still, Good Times :)

I hope to see those places again some day. On the bucket list :)
D

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 5:27:58 PM   
Zovs


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FWIW I was in REFORGER 88

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 5:37:36 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Hi, Larry! I am sure you have already discovered this, about the "pre-turn" and declaration of hostilities ... but I have found that, when WP "declares" they must still wait one more turn for NATO to gather their wits. IOW, unlike most other scenarios, you'll be limited to borders while I (NATO) set up my defense.

So, if you choose "tension", even when you declare "war" I will still have one more chance to get my AAA / aircraft in place (along w/ other things LoL) ... looking forward to it!!

Truly a monster scene ... I ran through a quick WP move myself, would up w/ over 6000 on the playback.

I am sure yours will reach 10K or more. Ok, then, Commander Comrade, I look forward to your move!

D

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 17
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 5:39:14 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

FWIW I was in REFORGER 88


Nice ... REFORGER 84 here. Good times :)

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 5:56:17 PM   
Hellen_slith


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I have been looking for this for YEARS. Finally found it. WARNING: PDF file

http://spigames.net/PDFv2/NextWar.pdf

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/17/2019 8:24:48 PM   
Zovs


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Ah you should have asked me, I created PDF that includes the errata, lol. I have it on my local HDD.

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 3:15:31 AM   
mussey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

Hi, Larry! I am sure you have already discovered this, about the "pre-turn" and declaration of hostilities ... but I have found that, when WP "declares" they must still wait one more turn for NATO to gather their wits. IOW, unlike most other scenarios, you'll be limited to borders while I (NATO) set up my defense.

So, if you choose "tension", even when you declare "war" I will still have one more chance to get my AAA / aircraft in place (along w/ other things LoL) ... looking forward to it!!

Truly a monster scene ... I ran through a quick WP move myself, would up w/ over 6000 on the playback.

I am sure yours will reach 10K or more. Ok, then, Commander Comrade, I look forward to your move!

D


After release of Beta, I tweaked GT #2 so that the WP suffers a 24hr movement penalty (to reflect assembling/de-assembling to/from motor pools); while NATO suffers a 48 hour movement penalty to reflect 24 hrs of delayed reaction plus the 24hrs to mobilize. In 'Tension' of multiple turns this has little impact, but in 'Sudden War' it creates some havoc. There is also a 2% chance of that each formation may be unable to move that turn. This may not seem like much, but in my tests with multiple formations it usually results with several being affected.

Though unlikely in NIE (Natl Intel Est)documents, 'Sudden War' is my most favorite because WP can put NATO on its heels and capture key points quickly for future waves, and take advantage of the 25% shock that first turn of war. (NIE predicted a higher probability of 3-8 day mobilization so that Front HQ's could be established, and another front to be added in E. Ger., most probably the Northern/Polish Front).

If Larry is WP, he has some crucial decisions to make. He will set the pace for much of the game as each Military District mobilizes a Front for the 2nd and 3rd waves. Where will he deploy them?...

_____________________________

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The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


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Post #: 21
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 3:28:25 AM   
mussey


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quote:

when I unboxed that sweet sweet game back in 1980 or so, and started to break apart the air units to place them ....


Yes, those counters. The tactile sense of holding/placing/sorting them I miss the most, until my cat started making moves for me...

I remember most how the air rules rocked my world, and allowed me to grow as a gamer.

Though never deployed overseas, I remember the nervous excitement I had while attending college when Brezhnev died, and how it would affect the stakes of the Cold War and this game, as I WAS PLAYING IT! Surreal.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


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Post #: 22
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 3:43:22 AM   
mussey


Posts: 650
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From: Cleve-Land
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Ah you should have asked me, I created PDF that includes the errata, lol. I have it on my local HDD.


That is beyond way cool. Now that was a game manual!

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 23
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 7:21:11 AM   
cathar1244

 

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quote:

until my cat started making moves for me...


Should have let the cat continue. They're born soldiers, after all.

Cheers

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RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 9:14:57 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 4177
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Ah you should have asked me, I created PDF that includes the errata, lol. I have it on my local HDD.


That is beyond way cool. Now that was a game manual!


Thanks, I can send or share a copy if any interest.


_____________________________


War in the East/War in the East II - Alpha Test Teams
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DG CWIE2 tester/SPWW2 and SPMBT playtester/scenario creator

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 25
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 9:21:20 PM   
mussey


Posts: 650
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From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

quote:

until my cat started making moves for me...


Should have let the cat continue. They're born soldiers, after all.

Cheers


She created hairballs, and furballs. My wife would egg her on to move the counters, so a conspiracy of sorts was in the works.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 26
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/18/2019 9:24:02 PM   
mussey


Posts: 650
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From: Cleve-Land
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs


quote:

ORIGINAL: mussey


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Ah you should have asked me, I created PDF that includes the errata, lol. I have it on my local HDD.


That is beyond way cool. Now that was a game manual!


Thanks, I can send or share a copy if any interest.



Thanks for your generous offer, I too have an electronic version. But yet, like the counters, I still enjoy the hard copy with my notes and highlights peppered throughout.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 27
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/19/2019 5:53:53 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Just got through watching the playback of Larry's move #2 as WP (6848 movements, took about 30 minutes for the full playback).

Seems like he might be pushing the Fulda Gap along with an end-run around Austria. I was a bit surprised by so much naval movement west of Finmark ... I was expecting those naval forces to concentrate more on North Germany / Copenhagen ... but that's ok, less pressure on me there LoL (as if Larry doesn't apply enough pressure as it is!!)

He is a tough player, very aggressive, so it is going be a challenge for me to hold him back if I can.

The NATO shock penalty is pretty tough to deal with right now ... more than several WG formations are still organizing on my edge of the map, and that puts an additional onus on me. BAOR seems solid and up for a fight, so I am gathering their air power to hope to interdict some of his movements around the Fulda Gap while US gears up REFORGER.

Seems like I have drawn the "full NATO" card, so all of the Danes / Italians are in it from the get-go. Looks like he might try to open up Austria though, so I am keeping an eye on that area.

Trying to think up a different strategy here for NATO ... last time against Larry, in the NATO 1962 scene, I "castled Queen-side" w/ the French. Not sure if that will work here, but the French and Dutch look like they might be able to turn a trick or two on this NATO move.

Looks like it is going to be a hell of a fight!! Good luck, Comrade Larry!!

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 28
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/19/2019 6:06:39 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

Looks like it is going to be a hell of a fight!! Good luck, Comrade Larry!!


And good hunting to you my friend. May the wind always be at your back. May the rains fall gentle upon your fields.




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Post #: 29
RE: The Next War 19799 Expanded ( Beta 1.0 ) Damon v. l... - 4/19/2019 6:35:34 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 4177
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From: United States
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Wow, so your really not named Larry!

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Post #: 30
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