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Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ?

 
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Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/7/2019 11:30:51 PM   
sh996699

 

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Didn't know if this is correct spot to post this question but here it is. I have been playing WitpAE for over 10 years (I think) but have been away for a few years so I don't remember if I should just let the Japs. land troops all over the place so as to make the game interesting. I am playing Iron Man and at the end of Dec. 1941 and I have been sinking Jap. transports all over the map. Should I let the Japs. take Borneo, New Guinea and other areas to make the game more intersting. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.

< Message edited by sh996699 -- 4/7/2019 11:31:45 PM >
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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 12:18:01 AM   
JoV

 

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I take it you are playing the AI?

In which case, yes. If you are looking for a long interesting game give Japan everything it needs, and then start turning the screws afterward. If I was playing Allies against a Japanese AI I would also ignore SigInt, as you don't particularly need the help, but each to their own

There is an April 1942 start over in the Scenario forum that means you can skip the early war and start fighting back immediately if you prefer.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 12:54:32 AM   
sh996699

 

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Thanks, I think I'll try the April 1942 start over...This is to easy

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 1:02:48 AM   
JoV

 

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The May 42 scenario is in here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3315254&mpage=1&key=

One of my first experiences in WitP was annihilating a major Japanese invasion of Port Blair after a SigInt tip-off. That was what convinced me that you need to give the AI a lot of rope

There are other options out there (harder Ironman scenarios for instance), but I have no experience with them.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 1:13:36 AM   
sh996699

 

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thanks for the location......

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 1:25:06 AM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sh996699

Didn't know if this is correct spot to post this question but here it is. I have been playing WitpAE for over 10 years (I think) but have been away for a few years so I don't remember if I should just let the Japs. land troops all over the place so as to make the game interesting. I am playing Iron Man and at the end of Dec. 1941 and I have been sinking Jap. transports all over the map. Should I let the Japs. take Borneo, New Guinea and other areas to make the game more intersting. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.


Absolutely it's Wrong to sink Jap ships early.... as it is Wrong for Japs to sink any Allied ship before their actual sunk date...if at all.

Seriously? Either read a history book and let it go at that - or fight the war (from either side) as best you can...that's why they made this a game.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 1:37:47 AM   
sh996699

 

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OK....But I have NO time to read a book.....

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 1:43:07 AM   
Anachro


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My thoughts: if you want a truly challenging game where you don't have to give yourself a handicap or your opponent a buff, try a PBEM multiplayer game.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 3:43:41 AM   
Kull


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If you want a Japanese opponent similar to the one faced by the Allies in WW2, than the AI is absolutely perfect. It utilizes poor strategic tactics and it will commit similar (if not exactly the same) mistakes as those seen in the history. Conversely, that require YOU to play as the historical Allies. Sure, you have the advantage of knowing what happened in history (and thus the opportunity to counteract it), but the Allies were a mess at the beginning and you need to play that way. Retreat, fight when outnumbered, don't combine forces in ahistorical fashion, and don't oppose the initial Japanese invasions. You are a punching bag, so act like one!

However.

Pick a month, June 1942, maybe July and from then on you can take the offensive. The gloves are off. The nice thing is that by then, you'll be fighting a war that looks very similar to the historical situation. Maybe not a "Battle of Midway", but there will be a "Coral Sea" and a "Guadalcanal Campaign", and lots of other really cool things will unfold from there. Best of all, remember this. Every dumb thing the AI does from this point forward had a historical counterpart. If you want a strategically competent Japanese opponent, well, that never existed historically. It requires PBEM in order to experience "War in the Pacific as it never was".

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 5:34:36 AM   
JoV

 

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I agree with all that

If you were preparing to begin a PBEM I'd absolutely advocate trying to crush the AI as quickly and efficiently as possible. Get used to giving no quarter, as a human opponent is unlikely to either

But if your interest is in playing a long game, absolutely makes sense to roleplay it and pull your punches a bit.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 5:50:14 AM   
Capt Hornblower


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OP: What difficulty level are you playing at? Perhaps you should consider cranking that up, besides playing Ironman.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 8:37:51 AM   
Leandros


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That would depend on what you think is interesting….

Fred

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 8:42:51 AM   
jdsrae


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I’ve done both and even if you go hard early at some point you need to invade places like the Marianas and Okinawa, maybe Iwo Jima and Japan proper.
I would not want to be trying any of that for the first time against a PBEM opponent!
The AI can teach you a few hard lessons about invading atolls and small islands far from land based air support.
So, play one way this time and the other the next. You will learn different things that work and don’t work each way.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/8/2019 5:07:09 PM   
pontiouspilot


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I'll play you PBEM if you promise not to sink my ships!!!

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/9/2019 10:49:41 PM   
pnzrgnral

 

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If you want the game to last and stretch out, then of course play with a hand tied behind your back. If you play to win, consider this: every merchant hull can transport resources, supplies, or differing types of troop loads. Japan has a bunch at start but doesn't get much later. Every hull sunk, and especially early on, is one less platform to carry all the above cited material. Sinking them early means that many fewer to transport stuff over the long haul. Sinking them early also catches them carrying troops for early war amphib ops. Sinking torpedo-carrying warships is that many fewer torpedoes to hole YOUR hulls. So the choice is: Make for a drawn-out, painful war, or blast the enemy into smithereens firstest with the moistest?


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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/10/2019 6:48:21 AM   
Leandros


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Actually, the US started the war in a fashion they were not supposed to, with unrestricted submarine warfare immediately
declared, as ordered by the CNO, Admiral Stark. This was against official US policy and signed treaties. I believe Stark
received a spanking for this from his superiors.

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 4/10/2019 6:50:03 AM >


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River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/10/2019 9:27:29 AM   
Buckrock

 

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Who spanked Betty (Stark)?

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/10/2019 3:02:36 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

If you want a Japanese opponent similar to the one faced by the Allies in WW2, than the AI is absolutely perfect. It utilizes poor strategic tactics and it will commit similar (if not exactly the same) mistakes as those seen in the history. Conversely, that require YOU to play as the historical Allies. Sure, you have the advantage of knowing what happened in history (and thus the opportunity to counteract it), but the Allies were a mess at the beginning and you need to play that way. Retreat, fight when outnumbered, don't combine forces in ahistorical fashion, and don't oppose the initial Japanese invasions. You are a punching bag, so act like one!

However.

Pick a month, June 1942, maybe July and from then on you can take the offensive. The gloves are off. The nice thing is that by then, you'll be fighting a war that looks very similar to the historical situation. Maybe not a "Battle of Midway", but there will be a "Coral Sea" and a "Guadalcanal Campaign", and lots of other really cool things will unfold from there. Best of all, remember this. Every dumb thing the AI does from this point forward had a historical counterpart. If you want a strategically competent Japanese opponent, well, that never existed historically. It requires PBEM in order to experience "War in the Pacific as it never was".


Interesting take, Kull.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/10/2019 3:07:35 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

If you want a Japanese opponent similar to the one faced by the Allies in WW2, than the AI is absolutely perfect. It utilizes poor strategic tactics and it will commit similar (if not exactly the same) mistakes as those seen in the history. Conversely, that require YOU to play as the historical Allies. Sure, you have the advantage of knowing what happened in history (and thus the opportunity to counteract it), but the Allies were a mess at the beginning and you need to play that way. Retreat, fight when outnumbered, don't combine forces in ahistorical fashion, and don't oppose the initial Japanese invasions. You are a punching bag, so act like one!

However.

Pick a month, June 1942, maybe July and from then on you can take the offensive. The gloves are off. The nice thing is that by then, you'll be fighting a war that looks very similar to the historical situation. Maybe not a "Battle of Midway", but there will be a "Coral Sea" and a "Guadalcanal Campaign", and lots of other really cool things will unfold from there. Best of all, remember this. Every dumb thing the AI does from this point forward had a historical counterpart. If you want a strategically competent Japanese opponent, well, that never existed historically. It requires PBEM in order to experience "War in the Pacific as it never was".


Interesting take, Kull.


+1

I've never managed a game vs the AI for more than a couple of months of game time. I personally find that the excitement and thrill of playing against a human opponent is required for me to make the investment of time and energy that this great game requires to play. For those that do play a full campaign against the AI, I think Kull's suggestion is a very good one.

< Message edited by USSAmerica -- 4/10/2019 4:58:16 PM >


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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/10/2019 3:09:50 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sh996699

Didn't know if this is correct spot to post this question but here it is. I have been playing WitpAE for over 10 years (I think) but have been away for a few years so I don't remember if I should just let the Japs. land troops all over the place so as to make the game interesting. I am playing Iron Man and at the end of Dec. 1941 and I have been sinking Jap. transports all over the map. Should I let the Japs. take Borneo, New Guinea and other areas to make the game more intersting. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.


As has been stated numerous times on this forum, the Japanese AI is limited in its capabilities. On those rare occasions that I play against the AI, I play to crush them ahistorically early. Sink EVERYTHING at sea that you can and completely ruin early war expansion plans.

In January 1942, for example, I drowned >125,000 Japanese troops at sea, sank or critically damaged 4 fleet CVs, and chased them off of their initial expansion goals. Come March 1942, they still had not captured Singapore, Manila / Clark or Mindanao, let alone Java / Sumatra priorities (e.g., Palembang). The war was effectively over by April 1942.

It can be done this way or the way others have described (Kull's observations above are an interesting twist). The point is there's no RIGHT or WRONG way to play the AI. Just don't overapply this 'shooting fish in a barrel' approach to real life or any competent opponent. But if you have fun with it, knock yourself out. It will change the complexion of the game forevermore, but if you're OK with ahistorical shoot-em-ups then knock yourself out.

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RE: Is it WRONG to sink Japs early in game ? - 4/11/2019 5:37:02 PM   
rustysi


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Agree with a lot that has been said above, but I've not been playing the AI for a 'game'. I only play the AI to learn. Each game I've played I try something different. I normally end it with an AV at the start of '43. In my current game I've gone beyond to see if my decisions will survive in the long run. I've done this mostly due to what others have said here about the levels needed to sustain the Japanese economy. OTOH, it has been enlightening in many other aspects and I've seen where I need to make changes. Not that I was terribly off in my decisions, just where I may tweak a bit here and there. Although that'll probably be true with every game I run through.

My other reason for doing as I do is that I would like to get deep into if not through the game once I commit to PBEM. After my current game I hope. Now all I have to do is find the time. Seems I'm getting worse (slower). In my current game I've only managed two weeks of game time in the last six weeks of real time. Not good.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 4/11/2019 5:38:00 PM >


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