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How Long for Orders to Take Effect?

 
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How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/23/2019 5:32:25 PM   
mirrorshades

 

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I've been spending some time with a couple smaller scenarios lately and while I'm not "good" at the game yet by any means, I think I'm getting the hang of it. I have only played as the NATO side, in case that matters for answering my question.

One thing that really keeps me scratching my head, though, is the seemingly random (and usually waaaaaay too long) delay between when I give an order to a unit and when it gets carried out. I have learned that I should not send a "Hold" order until I REALLY REALLY want a unit to stay put, since it takes an extra half hour to "dig out" before moving. But even providing movement orders to units that are already moving or that are in a Screen status sometimes seems to take f..o..r..e..v..e..r... for them to begin the order I've most recently provided.

I realize that implicit in the order is the time it takes the unit to "prepare to move out". I also understand that units that are under fire or that are actively engaged in combat need some extra time to break off and exit safely. But sometimes, it seems like a unit can be just standing still (Screen) at a particular location, but when provided with a movement order, it will be 30+ minutes before it begins (even if the "next action" shows an estimated time of within a few minutes).

Likewise, an artillery barrage for an On Call unit sometimes begins right away and sometimes takes a loooooong time to begin. I have no luck trying to lead or follow enemy units with a barrage -- either I unleash furious hellfire a kilometer or more ahead of them, or they are long gone by the time my barrage shows up to destroy their tire tracks.

So what am I missing? Is there a way to figure out the sweet spot between when an order is given and when it takes effect? Does it have to do with distance from the parent HQ unit? Or is it more forumlaic, like "Units in status _____ will take _____ minutes to process a new order?"

It really feels random but never seems to work out in favor of my NATO forces. Typically the feeling I get from watching the battle is that the WP forces (with typically 1.5x - 2x the command cycle delay) can adapt much more quickly, even though I may have given appropriate orders ahead of time.

Do my troops just not trust my orders as a commander? Help! :)

Related question, does the type of movement a unit is engaged in have any effect on the time to implement a new order; or the time to go from "not moving" to "moving"? I assume that it goes Hasty -> Deliberate -> Assault from fastest to slowest, but what about time to start/stop moving? Does it take longer to start Deliberate or Assault movement?
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RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/23/2019 6:52:03 PM   
Searry

 

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This is a game where you need to study the terrain and possible areas of attack and where the enemy can deploy, then consider how you want your units spread and which hold and which screen and when moving them, think several turns into the future.

(in reply to mirrorshades)
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RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/24/2019 1:53:23 AM   
mirrorshades

 

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Yep -- I get that, and many times I've restarted a scenario after a few turns when I find out that my original plans aren't working out at all. But at the same time, I know that one of the main advantages of the asynchronous command cycle game mechanic is supposed to allow for a more rapid response to changing battlefield conditions and surprises. That's why I'm thinking that maybe there are other technicalities that I'm just getting tripped up on (Example: I didn't realize at first that Hold creates a 30 minute delay before the next order can be followed).

(in reply to Searry)
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RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/24/2019 9:59:24 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

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About artillery, i always find they fire the first salvo exactly 5 minutes into the turn, so far so good. I very seldom let the AI plan artillery strikes on its own, because there is a delay, and I like to use my arty where i want, when i want. When I plan the strikes, i see when they will be carried out and choose my targets accordingly. The best setup i've found is to point at hexes when i'm almost sure the enemy WILL be at the time of the strike. For example, if there are three enemy units in a row rolling down a street, i'll plan my first strike against the middle one, plan the second strike an hex ahead, and then somewhere else because by the time the third strikes arrive,they will probably be too far to accurately predict their position.

Moving units it's sometimes tricky and I concur sometimes moving times don't seem to follow any reasonable logic, but it may just be a combination of a dozen different factors. Unit quality, enemies near, c&c blunders, enemy comm interference, etc.

The asyncronous command cycle, however, i don't think allows for a rapid response. I feel it's just a realism mechanism, and i'd say Flashpoint Campaigns shows you how POORLY accurate orders from "higher ups" can be on a battlefield. You issue your orders, and by the time the unit receives them and act on them, they may not be accurate or relevant or even useful anymore.

(in reply to mirrorshades)
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RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/25/2019 11:33:36 AM   
kool_kat


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Gents:

Here is what you do if you want your units to react faster to your issued orders:

(1.) Click on unit.
(2.) Issue order.
(3.) Plot three (3) way points.
(4.) Confirm order.
(5.) Click on unit.
(6.) Delete the first way point.

Your selected unit will react in approximately four minutes of game time!

Problem solved!

< Message edited by kool_kat -- 3/25/2019 11:54:56 AM >


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(in reply to mirrorshades)
Post #: 5
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/25/2019 1:59:59 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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Gamey or WAD? Just curious.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 6
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 3/25/2019 4:06:20 PM   
kool_kat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Gamey or WAD? Just curious.

Klink, Oberst


Gents:

No idea. But, for me it makes for much more exciting and fun games - especially against the AI.



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Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

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Post #: 7
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 6/21/2019 2:49:00 AM   
KungPao


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kool_kat

Gents:

Here is what you do if you want your units to react faster to your issued orders:

(1.) Click on unit.
(2.) Issue order.
(3.) Plot three (3) way points.
(4.) Confirm order.
(5.) Click on unit.
(6.) Delete the first way point.

Your selected unit will react in approximately four minutes of game time!

Problem solved!

I also noticed this bug recently.

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(in reply to kool_kat)
Post #: 8
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 6/22/2019 1:06:02 AM   
exsonic01

 

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Any plan to adjust or add some details to delay time? I like the delay time system, but amount of delay in RS was too harsh IMO... Also it would be great to show or list the reasons behind the delay time. Such as:
Delay 5 min => player clicks the message => open new window reason behind delays, like "under fire +3min, out of concealment +1min, radio communication +1min" or something similar... If possible.

(in reply to KungPao)
Post #: 9
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 6/23/2019 4:43:41 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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Orders delay depends primarily on Readiness, both for the ordered unit and for the HQs in its chain of command. There is a he penalty if folks are out of command range of their parent HQs.



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Post #: 10
RE: How Long for Orders to Take Effect? - 6/23/2019 4:46:34 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01

Any plan to adjust or add some details to delay time? I like the delay time system, but amount of delay in RS was too harsh IMO... Also it would be great to show or list the reasons behind the delay time. Such as:
Delay 5 min => player clicks the message => open new window reason behind delays, like "under fire +3min, out of concealment +1min, radio communication +1min" or something similar... If possible.


Yeah, not everything is a five paragraph field order with appendices and annexes. We're working on mechanisms to differentiate between local adjustments and a Battalion deliberate attack.

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Jeff
Sua Sponte

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Post #: 11
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