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Electronic Warfare - 3/19/2019 12:31:31 AM   
lancer

 

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Hi,

The game mechanics such as countdown order delays really lend themselves to some kind of EW implementation.

You could easily have a scenario setting where one side has an EW advantage that adds a random amount of time to each order for the opposing side.

A more interesting approach might be to have an actual EW on map unit that you can then order to go 'Active' when desired that would have a similar effect of messing with your opponents command and control cycle (eg. increased order delays or even cancelling existing orders).

The downside would be that the longer that your EW unit is actively jamming the more likely it's location is liable to become visibile to the enemy (hello artillery strike). If you really wanted to make it more tactical you could restrict any jamming effect to enemy units in the EW units LOS.

There seems to be a big list of things already on the developers plate so this is just kicking around a thought for the future. Electronic Warfare was a big deal at the time of the game as it is now and the Soviets were especially keen practioners of the art.

Cheers,
Lancer


< Message edited by lancer -- 3/19/2019 12:33:28 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Electronic Warfare - 3/19/2019 3:40:04 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 757
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From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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EW is already suggested in previous posts, I also suggested something during beta. As far as I know, EW is in their plan, but I think those are not imminent target for their near-future plan. Probably in long term plan, maybel?

Plus, as far as I know, I guess devs still don't have enough realistic/real data for EW warfare equipment during cold war era. We can get EW FMs, but I guess that is not enough for devs. Problem is, some of data/information for EW equipment during cold war are still classified. If this game introduce EW then it can't escape from speculation, assumption, and extrapolation. But I think devs don't like such guess for unit design and system design. I wish devs find some balanced spot among gaming balance, speculation and guess, and historical accuracy for EW for this game.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 2
RE: Electronic Warfare - 3/19/2019 6:01:52 PM   
altipueri

 

Posts: 590
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Anybody got a good guide to electronic warfare - land, sea or air?

I've only recently ventured into post WW2 games with Armored Brigade, CMANO, and Flashpoint Campaigns.

I've no real idea what can zap what, let alone what to do with these helicopter things :)

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 3
RE: Electronic Warfare - 3/20/2019 3:20:48 AM   
nikolas93TS


Posts: 396
Joined: 2/24/2017
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Electronic warfare is definitively in the plan.

However, as exsonic01 correctly pointed out, at the moment we are prioritizing more urgent issues such as the campaign generator, other basic game improvements such as larger stacking limit and improved pathfinding and of course fresh content in form of new factions.

I personally have to admit of being blissfully ignorant in delicate intricacies of modern ground EW, and remediating to something like that would require several months (if..) of reading, researching et hopefully understanding complex engineering aspects, so we absolutely encourage players proposing solutions. Particularly if backed by sources, or even better, personal serving insight. It makes things easier for us, and more likely it will get into the game sooner.

(in reply to altipueri)
Post #: 4
RE: Electronic Warfare - 3/27/2019 12:48:25 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 757
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From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS

Electronic warfare is definitively in the plan.

However, as exsonic01 correctly pointed out, at the moment we are prioritizing more urgent issues such as the campaign generator, other basic game improvements such as larger stacking limit and improved pathfinding and of course fresh content in form of new factions.

I personally have to admit of being blissfully ignorant in delicate intricacies of modern ground EW, and remediating to something like that would require several months (if..) of reading, researching et hopefully understanding complex engineering aspects, so we absolutely encourage players proposing solutions. Particularly if backed by sources, or even better, personal serving insight. It makes things easier for us, and more likely it will get into the game sooner.

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-12.pdf
FM 3-12, from page 1-25, brief description of EWs.

https://usacac.army.mil/cac2/repository/fm336/fm336.pdf
FM 3-36, US army EW FM.

https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=437397
FM 100-6, Information operations, 1996

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a394229.pdf
FM 34-1, I & EW operations, 1994

http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/fm34-80%2886%29.pdf
FM 34-80, brigade and battalion I & EW operations, 1986

http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM34-1%281987%29.pdf
1987 version of FM 34-1

Maybe you could be able to get a fundamental concepts and idea of US army EW during cold war from those documents. Brigade / Battalion FM looks good. But I'm not sure about PACT or any other NATO nations....

https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2018/ICDS_Report_Russias_Electronic_Warfare_to_2025.pdf
2017 ~ 2025 Russian EW expectation

Does the US army FM 100-1 and 100-2 (Soviet army study) contains EW of PACT or USSR?

(in reply to nikolas93TS)
Post #: 5
RE: Electronic Warfare - 4/12/2019 8:03:40 PM   
Wiz33

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 5/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01


quote:

ORIGINAL: nikolas93TS

Electronic warfare is definitively in the plan.

However, as exsonic01 correctly pointed out, at the moment we are prioritizing more urgent issues such as the campaign generator, other basic game improvements such as larger stacking limit and improved pathfinding and of course fresh content in form of new factions.

I personally have to admit of being blissfully ignorant in delicate intricacies of modern ground EW, and remediating to something like that would require several months (if..) of reading, researching et hopefully understanding complex engineering aspects, so we absolutely encourage players proposing solutions. Particularly if backed by sources, or even better, personal serving insight. It makes things easier for us, and more likely it will get into the game sooner.

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-12.pdf
FM 3-12, from page 1-25, brief description of EWs.

https://usacac.army.mil/cac2/repository/fm336/fm336.pdf
FM 3-36, US army EW FM.

https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=437397
FM 100-6, Information operations, 1996

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a394229.pdf
FM 34-1, I & EW operations, 1994

http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/fm34-80%2886%29.pdf
FM 34-80, brigade and battalion I & EW operations, 1986

http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM34-1%281987%29.pdf
1987 version of FM 34-1

Maybe you could be able to get a fundamental concepts and idea of US army EW during cold war from those documents. Brigade / Battalion FM looks good. But I'm not sure about PACT or any other NATO nations....

https://icds.ee/wp-content/uploads/2018/ICDS_Report_Russias_Electronic_Warfare_to_2025.pdf
2017 ~ 2025 Russian EW expectation

Does the US army FM 100-1 and 100-2 (Soviet army study) contains EW of PACT or USSR?


All the manual and doctrine don't help as even the most basic performance data are still classified, unlike weapon system where you can actually have access to some un-classified performance data. So you basically just throw a number in the air and say this system will cause this effect purely in random.

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 6
RE: Electronic Warfare - 4/15/2019 7:12:20 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wiz33
All the manual and doctrine don't help as even the most basic performance data are still classified, unlike weapon system where you can actually have access to some un-classified performance data. So you basically just throw a number in the air and say this system will cause this effect purely in random.

Well still better than nothing :P

I think best way the game could do is just get the best estimation based on some assumptions. I think this is the same for other games like CMANO or FPC-RS, because most of EW weapon data are still classified.

(in reply to Wiz33)
Post #: 7
RE: Electronic Warfare - 4/16/2019 3:27:52 PM   
Wiz33

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 5/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wiz33
All the manual and doctrine don't help as even the most basic performance data are still classified, unlike weapon system where you can actually have access to some un-classified performance data. So you basically just throw a number in the air and say this system will cause this effect purely in random.

Well still better than nothing :P

I think best way the game could do is just get the best estimation based on some assumptions. I think this is the same for other games like CMANO or FPC-RS, because most of EW weapon data are still classified.



It might be too complicated to actually include EW units but it may work as a random global setting that add a small delay to command communications.

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 8
RE: Electronic Warfare - 4/16/2019 6:44:52 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 757
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Dusty town, somewhere inside central valley of CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wiz33
It might be too complicated to actually include EW units but it may work as a random global setting that add a small delay to command communications.

Yeah, that is the way CMBS implemented EW, and definitely can be an option here too. But I wish if I could have more freedom / control over EW-related contents. Plus, if there are some automated algorithm of EW control, which player can turn on/off to ease the burden of micro, that would be great too.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 4/16/2019 6:55:33 PM >

(in reply to Wiz33)
Post #: 9
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