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Graphics override for counter numbers not working

 
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Graphics override for counter numbers not working - 3/6/2019 8:24:49 PM   
BigDuke66


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Tried it with 2 scenarios but unlike other graphics the files counternumbers.png and h_counternumbers.png are not used if placed in the Graphics Override.

These files need to be moded sometimes if the designer used the squad symbol on units to deny the splitting of that unit.
Scenarios like Operation Neva use this widely and it's a pity that the override is not working as you now have to replace the original files.
And if you have multiple scenarios you may have to roted those files again and again.

I hope this gets fixed asap.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 3/7/2019 4:05:50 PM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 4:36:20 AM   
sPzAbt653


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It is working here [with 4.1.0.4].

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 5:35:21 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

files counternumbers.png and h_counternumbers.png are not used if placed in the Graphics Override.

Have you tried to put those files into a folder named the same as the scenario and placing the folder into the graphcs Override directory?

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 11:43:56 AM   
Shadrach


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It's true - the Graphics Override doesn't work for those two files, neither in the scenario folder nor in the folder itself. You need to overwrite the files in the game folder. This has been noted for instance with the Neva scenario, see:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4573801

Hope this is one of the things fixed next patch, if that ever comes out...

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 1:14:25 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

You need to overwrite the files in the game folder.

I don't know which folder you mean here.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 1:20:32 PM   
sPzAbt653


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That's new since 4.1.0.4 then. What versions are you guys using, and are you using Steam ?

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 3:05:54 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I don't know which folder you mean here.


The folder where the game is installed, for me that would be:
f:\Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Graphics\
Not "Graphics Override".

I'm using the latest patch so that would be 4.1.0.21.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 4:07:06 PM   
BigDuke66


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I use 4.1.0.21, no steam.
Operation Neva was the scenario pointing me to this problem, tried it with a different scenario, a mod of Fall Weiss 1939, and here it's the same problem.

A question regarding the graphics override folder, would files be used outside a specific scenario folder?



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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 4:19:40 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
A question regarding the graphics override folder, would files be used outside a specific scenario folder?


If the filename matches one of the files in "Graphics", it will use the one in "Graphics Override" instead. That's how I understand it.

NB - There's also a "Graphics Override" folder in the game directory, but we are supposed to use the override in "My Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Graphics Override\". And place user scenario files there. This way they won't get deleted if the game is uninstalled.


< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/7/2019 4:20:06 PM >

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 4:41:50 PM   
BigDuke66


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
NB - There's also a "Graphics Override" folder in the game directory, but we are supposed to use the override in "My Games\The Operational Art of War IV\Graphics Override\". And place user scenario files there. This way they won't get deleted if the game is uninstalled.

But this is simply an advise not a needed procedure or?
I doubt that the game could differ between stock scenarios and those added by the user and would use either the override folder in the game folder or the override folder in the user folder.
Wherever these counter file were place, as long as they end up in an graphics override folder they should be used by the game.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 5:05:07 PM   
Cabido

 

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Just a speculation, since I didn't try it. Most files need the three different sizes of the feature to be present in graphics override in order to work. Counternumbers.png comes only with 2 sizes (no s_counternumbers.png). Maybe using a dummy file with this name may fool the system. As I said, I'm just speculating.

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RE: Graphics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 5:05:35 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Tried it with 2 scenarios but unlike other graphics the files counternumbers.png and h_counternumbers.png are not used if placed in the Graphics Override.



Does the game even use these now? I modify my colors using the <scenario name>.col file. I put that in the folder named after the scenario in the Graphics Override folder. If I recall correctly the game looks for scenarios in both the game's directory and the user's My Games directory.

Also, if I recall correctly, once the scenario is saved with the new .col file, that information becomes a part of the scenario. It can be retrieved for editing by using the X key while the scenario is loaded in the editor.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4385511

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 5:07:04 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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I think Ralph has added the scenario-specific graphics to the scenario file. As such, you now need to save the scenario in the editor after putting the scenario-specific graphics in the scenario folder, etc. Give that a try.

I know my new Chickamauga 1863 scenario has a modified mapoptional bitmap in it - works ok.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 7:13:40 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I think Ralph has added the scenario-specific graphics to the scenario file. As such, you now need to save the scenario in the editor after putting the scenario-specific graphics in the scenario folder, etc. Give that a try.


Do you mean that the custom png's are compiled into the SCE file on save? I don't think this works. I tried it just now. First I would've expected the size of the SCE file would be bigger, which it's not. And the divisions still show as squads:



quote:

ORIGINAL: Cabido
Just a speculation, since I didn't try it. Most files need the three different sizes of the feature to be present in graphics override in order to work. Counternumbers.png comes only with 2 sizes (no s_counternumbers.png). Maybe using a dummy file with this name may fool the system. As I said, I'm just speculating.


A good idea, but didn't seem to work. Also, CounterNumbers.png is 322 x 7 px, so an s_counternumbers.png would be impossible to read, even if it was used. No-one even knows what the dimensions of such a file should be. I think a lot of the s_*.png files are not used anyway, as they only apply on the Tiny/Ultra Tiny zoom levels. So it would be pointless to show any symbols there.

I think at this point Ralph is the only one to settle this, if the Counternumbers files are not possible to mod without overwriting game files, or if there's some misunderstanding on how to accomplish this.


< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/7/2019 7:14:13 PM >

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 7:49:49 PM   
BigDuke66


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No, tried Bob's idea too but it also didn't work for me on the counter files.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 3/7/2019 8:14:35 PM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 8:17:59 PM   
Lobster


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Stop using the .png counter graphics. They are not used anymore so yeah, will not work no matter where you put them. Read this: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4385511

This is now how you change the colors of counters including the color of the numbers on the counters.

As for terrain graphics, they are handled the same way you are used to using them and there you do use the .png files.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 8:25:04 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Stop using the .png counter graphics. They are not used anymore so yeah, will not work no matter where you put them. Read this: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4385511

This is now how you change the colors of counters including the color of the numbers on the counters.

As for terrain graphics, they are handled the same way you are used to using them and there you do use the .png files.


We're not talking about colours. We're talking about the numbers and symbols shown on the counters, which is controlled by the CounterNumbers.png files. It looks like this:



< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/7/2019 8:37:08 PM >

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 10:20:21 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Stop using the .png counter graphics. They are not used anymore so yeah, will not work no matter where you put them. Read this: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4385511

This is now how you change the colors of counters including the color of the numbers on the counters.

As for terrain graphics, they are handled the same way you are used to using them and there you do use the .png files.


We're not talking about colours. We're talking about the numbers and symbols shown on the counters, which is controlled by the CounterNumbers.png files. It looks like this:




I modified the divisional symbol so it was filled in between the XX. Then I put it into the Documents/My Games/The Operational Art of War/Graphics Override/<scenario name> folder. This is what I got:






See how it's filled in between the XX. It works just like it's supposed to. Forgot to say, this is with the latest patch (.21)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lobster -- 3/7/2019 10:22:34 PM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 11:03:49 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I modified the divisional symbol so it was filled in between the XX. Then I put it into the Documents/My Games/The Operational Art of War/Graphics Override/<scenario name> folder. This is what I got:


Damn, you're right, it does work... I just tested and it does. I had placed the files in the game install "Graphics Override" directory. Actually, they already existed there because Operation Neva is one of the default scenarios (I think).



Apparently NONE of the graphics files in that folder would work.

I tested also with "Campaign For North Africa 40-43 v.11.0" since it has custom urban tiles. It didn't work in the Install\Graphics Override but it did work in My Games\Graphics Override. This is weird. Does it mean those 500MB of files in Graphics Override is redundant then?

I was under the impression that the game install Graphics Override folder would also work for overrides.

What about the EQP + NQP files then, are these also not used? Can anyone with more experience with the equipment files tell if for instance "Campaign For North Africa 40-43 v.11.0" has the correct equipment? I don't know what to look for...

Confused...

I'll try to find more scenarios with custom tiles and see if the same happens.

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/7/2019 11:06:30 PM >

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/7/2019 11:37:55 PM   
BigDuke66


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wtf?!
They do work in the user scenario folder.
Just tried Operation Neva and there it's the same, the counter files work in the Graphics Override under the user path but not in the game path.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 3/8/2019 1:07:10 AM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 1:26:23 AM   
BigDuke66


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I tested a bit and it indeed seems that the graphics in the game directory Graphics Override folder are not used at all.
That is not limited to the counternumbers.png and h_counternumbers.png files, it is also this way with other counter related graphic files like h_CounterUnits.png and also terrain graphics like h_Tiles_damaged_railroad.png, s_tiles_damaged_railroad.png and tiles_damaged_railroad.png for example.

I guess for now the only way to be sure that the files that the designer intended to be used are really used is to make both Graphics Override folders have identical content just to be sure.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 4:29:37 AM   
sPzAbt653


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For pete's sakes guys, you should definately know this by now, it's been over a year. Don't worry with why, just do:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4381180

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 4:57:31 AM   
BigDuke66


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Explains... nothing.
It wasn't my or anyone else idea to put all the override stuff into the Graphics Override folder in the game directory, that is what the latest installer does.
And here the override stuff does not seem to work at all.

Not sure how the structure was before, I only remember much to much stuff was install under the user path, afaik more than half the game was installed there. Now as everything seems to have shifted back to the game directory to allow the user to have the TOAW stuff under the user path be his own section that he can keep even after removign the game someone seems to have missed telling the game this.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 10:40:43 AM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
For pete's sakes guys, you should definately know this by now, it's been over a year. Don't worry with why, just do:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4381180


This post is old, and with the latest .20 version a lot was changed on where the game looks for files. It moves the default scenarios into the game install directory, for one thing.

I asked Ralph about this a while back and he tried to clarify how it worked here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4542846

He said: "You can put files into either the Program Files/.../(Scenario or Graphics or Graphics Override) folder or the Documents/My Games/... directory. "

From this I assumed that the Graphics Override in the game directory would also be read, but it appears not.

I had a look with Process Monitor to see if the game does any read of the folder, and it doesn't, at all. Basically these files are never used by the game, and should be deleted to avoid confusion (and save a bit of size for the installer). Problem is, how would scenarios shipped with the game then use custom graphics at all?

For instance, "Battle of Adua 1896" uses a custom rocky hex tile. Without it the map looks a mess because nearly every hex is rocky. The file in the game install directory is *never* accessed by the game.

How it should look on left, default on right:



< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/8/2019 10:44:02 AM >

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 10:58:30 AM   
sPzAbt653


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But that's a Steam issue, and you guys said you weren't using Steam.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 1:35:10 PM   
BigDuke66


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Why is this a steam issue??? I didn't see this reported anywhere, including steam
And yes I do not use steam, and never ever used it in relation to TOAWIV.

@Shadrach
We shouldn't delete it, the game should be fixed as the separation of the content that comes with the game and the stuff that the user installs in his user folder makes sense. It just has to be made working.
As I said, for now till a fix comes out the content of that Graphics Override folder should be copied to the Graphics Override folder under the user path to make all scenario work like intended.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 3/8/2019 1:51:34 PM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 4:10:53 PM   
sPzAbt653


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if you have a custom counternumbers that you want to use in a scenario, and you place it in the scenario specific folder in Documents...Graphics Override, are you saying that it isn't used by the game ?

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 5:27:06 PM   
BigDuke66


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I say that the Graphics Override folder in the game directory is not used.
If it's correct what Shadrach said that game doesn't access that folder at all, so all the content there isn't used at all.

Just look here where the Operation Neva designer pointed to the problem already at the end of last year:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4573801
It wasn't just the 2 files he pointed out, nothing there is used, at least not the graphic files.

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 3/8/2019 5:28:13 PM >


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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 7:11:05 PM   
sPzAbt653


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I went to the thread you linked, I understand what he is saying, but I did not need to DL any new version of the scenario to correct the issue. I copied my counternumber files from Russian Campaign and put them in 'Documents...Operation Neva' and it worked fine immediately [hit Ctrl + R to update Graphics on the fly [thank you Ralph]].

And that thread was from before the latest TOAW version, so there must not be a problem there. Believe me I am trying to help you identify some issue so that Ralph can look into it, but so far I still can't see where there is any issue other than you and maybe somebody else still insisting on messing with 'Program Files...' when it's been obvious for some time that is not someting to be considered. Can't you stick with 'Documents...' and leave 'Program Files...' alone ? I don't get it.

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RE: Grahics override for counter numbers not working - 3/8/2019 7:25:46 PM   
Shadrach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
@Shadrach
We shouldn't delete it, the game should be fixed as the separation of the content that comes with the game and the stuff that the user installs in his user folder makes sense. It just has to be made working.
As I said, for now till a fix comes out the content of that Graphics Override folder should be copied to the Graphics Override folder under the user path to make all scenario work like intended.


Absolutely, I agree with this. I won't delete it, I'm saying it's pretty much redundant, unless someone (Ralph?) can prove otherwise and it's actually used somehow. And it really should be fixed allowing it also to act as an override.

A good use for this folder would also be to keep various stuff for the large default scenarios like FITE2, CFNA, CFSV -- Documents, maps, goodies, alternative counter symbols (Wehrmacht, Warsaw Pact etc).

IMO there should be a hierarchy consisting of the following, in order of importance:
1. Scenario specific directory in My Games -> Graphics Override. Files will apply to specific scenario.
2. Scenario specific directory in Programs -> Graphics Override. Files will apply to specific scenario, unless explicitly overridden above (this is where we are talking about).
3. Files placed in My Games -> Graphics Override. Files will apply to all scenarios, unless explicitly overridden above (this is where graphics mods work).

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Can't you stick with 'Documents...' and leave 'Program Files...' alone ? I don't get it.


Operation Neva is a default scenario included in the game, as is the example I made above (Battle of Adua). And the Campaign For North Africa scenarios use custom graphics too. None of these actually work like intended out of the box. You can't expect users to first copy the scenario files to the My Games -> Graphics Override directory before they play to not miss out on the custom stuff.

To be honest, there are not a lot of "important" stuff in the current Programs -> Graphics Override directory. A lot of redundant stuff anyway I think. And a lot of EQP/NQP files that I think are already included in the SCE files. But for scenarios like Op. Neva and others, they actually make a huge difference.

There are also a lot of these types of files:


I assume these are the old, no longer used counter colors files?

< Message edited by Shadrach -- 3/8/2019 7:34:33 PM >

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