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Naval Mod needs testing and input - 2/28/2019 11:49:50 PM   
Hairog


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First I've used Welk's Map Mod and IronX's and Sipre's Counter Mods that I've tweaked for the mod.

Download files ...

HERE





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< Message edited by Hairog -- 3/20/2019 4:58:17 AM >


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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 2/28/2019 11:51:58 PM   
Hairog


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more info




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 2/28/2019 11:52:54 PM   
Hairog


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more stuff




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 2/28/2019 11:54:07 PM   
Hairog


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From: Cornucopia, WI
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A few screen shots of Welk's and IronX beautiful combination




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 2/28/2019 11:55:23 PM   
Hairog


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shots




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/3/2019 9:23:45 PM   
Emporer

 

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Hi

Intresting mod.....

Is it possible to change units ability to do evasion when attacked?
Cant find out if this is possible though in the editor.
I liked your ide that Carrier based fleet should have the possiblety to avoid battle against surface fleets.

Cheers
Captain Jack

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/4/2019 1:00:51 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

Yes it is possible in Hubert's brilliant design and is being implemented in this Naval Mod. The Fast Carrier Task Forces have a 70% chance of evading being attacked. The Recon Task Forces have a 60% etc.

In the editor chose

Campaign/Country Data/Edit Combat Target Data - then near the middle of the page on the far right side.

You click on the country/combat target then set the loss evasion for land and naval combat seperately for attacking and defending.

Like everything in this games design, it's easy to do once you find out where it is.
Yes it is possible in Hubert's brilliant design and is being implemented in this Naval Mod. The Fast Carrier Task Forces have a 70% chance of evading being attacked. The Recon Task Forces have a 60% etc.

In the editor chose

Campaign/Country Data/Edit Combat Target Data - then near the middle of the page on the far right side.

You click on the country/combat target then set the loss evasion for land and naval combat separately for attacking and defending.

Like everything in this games design, it's easy to do once you find out where it is.




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< Message edited by Hairog -- 3/4/2019 1:05:23 AM >


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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/4/2019 10:41:56 AM   
elmo3

 

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Thanks for all that hard work trying to improve the naval design. I don't have time to test it but will be watching to see what others think. Maybe at some point Hubert will consider making it an official part of the game.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/4/2019 11:28:55 AM   
gwgardner

 

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A much needed mod, thanks for making it. Do you have plans to apply these concepts to a '39 scenario?

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/4/2019 1:05:46 PM   
Emporer

 

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Hmm

< Message edited by Emporer -- 3/4/2019 1:07:04 PM >

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/4/2019 1:09:48 PM   
Emporer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hairog

quote:

Yes it is possible in Hubert's brilliant design and is being implemented in this Naval Mod. The Fast Carrier Task Forces have a 70% chance of evading being attacked. The Recon Task Forces have a 60% etc.

In the editor chose

Campaign/Country Data/Edit Combat Target Data - then near the middle of the page on the far right side.

You click on the country/combat target then set the loss evasion for land and naval combat seperately for attacking and defending.

Like everything in this games design, it's easy to do once you find out where it is.
Yes it is possible in Hubert's brilliant design and is being implemented in this Naval Mod. The Fast Carrier Task Forces have a 70% chance of evading being attacked. The Recon Task Forces have a 60% etc.

In the editor chose

Campaign/Country Data/Edit Combat Target Data - then near the middle of the page on the far right side.

You click on the country/combat target then set the loss evasion for land and naval combat separately for attacking and defending.

Like everything in this games design, it's easy to do once you find out where it is.




Hi

Thanks a lot, how are the AI handle the new set up. Have you found out. The problem is that programmer maybe use the units name and not the actuel stats.

Cheers

(in reply to Hairog)
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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/5/2019 3:50:53 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

A much needed mod, thanks for making it. Do you have plans to apply these concepts to a '39 scenario?


Working on the other scenarios now. I just picked this one first because it had a lot going on naval wise. It starts out with the Battle of Midway and Wolf Packs loose all over.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/5/2019 4:08:52 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

Thanks for all that hard work trying to improve the naval design. I don't have time to test it but will be watching to see what others think. Maybe at some point Hubert will consider making it an official part of the game.



Well... If we show him that it works and is an improvement I'm sure he will give it a good look. But we have to test it and tweak it until it meets acceptable standards.

One hardcode change he could make would be to allow the exchange of task forces as the situation evolves like any fleet admiral would. Hopefully in the future, you will be able to exchange a Bombardment Task Force for a Strike Task Force with the appropriate MPP or organizational cost. Maye even break off a Screening Task Force from a Covering Task Force and make them both half strength etc.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/5/2019 4:16:56 AM   
Hairog


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I added Sipres Unit mod as the 3D choice. So now you can choose either Sipres or IronX mods right off the bat.
Now you can choose ...

This




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/5/2019 4:17:35 AM   
Hairog


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Or this ...




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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/13/2019 3:22:41 PM   
gwgardner

 

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I've been testing this mod with Hairog, and am very pleased with it so far. The concept and implementation of task forces, with defined roles, is working well in PBEM.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/13/2019 7:00:16 PM   
Emporer

 

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Hi

An intresting mod indeed. Have this been tested more?
I saw that price for naval units is not changed, but if the units contain more vessels I assume the price for them also should rise.
I see forward to test this.

Cheers

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/14/2019 4:42:23 AM   
Hairog


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We need more testers please. This mod attempts to address many of the challenges presented in the naval game that players have highlighted. Hubert's brilliant design has allowed us to try and mimic the choices real naval leaders had to make on a strategic scale.

Task Forces were how navies were organized on a day to day scale. You sent a Task Force or several to carry out your objectives. Typically a for an invasive operation you would send in a Recon TF then follow up with a Bombardment TF to soften up the enemy along with ground attack by a Fast Carrier TF. Meanwhile, a Covering TF would be protecting the whole operation with Screening TF operating as a first line defense from air attack, sub and surface attack. The Assault and Landing TF would then do their thing. If the enemy was capable they would send in a Fast Carrier and or Strike TF to counter the invasion or disrupt supply and to supply their own forces.

Most of all adding significant zones of control and defensive evasion have really made the difference. You may still get a chance to slide up to the Enterprise with the Yamato, but there will be a 70% that the Fast Carrier TF will evade your attack. If the enemy Admiral knows what he is doing, you will have use up your movement points dealing with Screening TFs and Covering TFs. Next turn you will be a sitting duck open to all sorts of mayhem.

Against the AI, if an opposing Carrier TF or two were present it was very hard to damage the enemy by air attack, when they were covered by CAP. If there was no CAP then it was pretty easy pickings. Meanwhile Recon, Screening and Wolf Packs are getting wasted like crazy, but they can be rebuilt the same turn for 20% of original cost. This represents the damaging of a TF which renders it operationally useless so it returns to port, resupplies and takes reinforcements and next turn travels into harms way with lost experience and moral or possibly it doesn't, it's up to the Fleet Admiral.



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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/17/2019 7:20:02 PM   
Simulacra53

 

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quote:

Against the AI, if an opposing Carrier TF or two were present it was very hard to damage the enemy by air attack, when they were covered by CAP. If there was no CAP then it was pretty easy pickings. Meanwhile Recon, Screening and Wolf Packs are getting wasted like crazy, but they can be rebuilt the same turn for 20% of original cost. This represents the damaging of a TF which renders it operationally useless so it returns to port, resupplies and takes reinforcements and next turn travels into harms way with lost experience and moral or possibly it doesn't, it's up to the Fleet Admiral.


These mechanics seem pretty sounds, especially the carrier ops.
Keep up the good work!!!

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/18/2019 1:07:54 AM   
Hairog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Simulacra53

quote:



These mechanics seem pretty sounds, especially the carrier ops.
Keep up the good work!!!


Thanks for the feedback
Harry


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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/20/2019 11:57:32 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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This is a great area to improve the game. I'll give it a whirl when I get a chance. Thanks for the effort.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 5:37:29 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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Just installed and fired her up.

A couple of initial reactions:
* Files are compressed using 7-ZIP? I had to go find a program to unzip them and then of course I put them in the wrong folder (steamapps versus user)
* I like the concept of what the mod is trying to do
* Have to get us to the graphics and color scheme - quite a change from vanilla

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 5:50:07 PM   
Hairog


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Glad to hear you got it fired up Thunder. Yes the graphics are a change. Except for the Task Force markers the units are the same and the TF units pretty much correspond to the old naval markers. The real change is the naval zones of control, the evasion from attack and certain TF was enhanced for specific operations.

Let me know what you think after playing it for a while. It will speed things up tremendously if you ignore the land units. Use the air units, but just let the land units sit there and you will get in 3 times more turns.

Remember, if a TF is brought down to zero and wiped from the map it will reappear in the Production list in a short time at a greatly reduced cost and build time. So look for it and use it to replace the heavily damaged TF. The concept is that the TF is not destroyed just rendered non-functional and needs to got back to port for repairs and reinforcements. It will cost you MPPs but usually about 20% of the orginal cost.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 7:12:23 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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Got a message when loading - "unit.text missing #1274=Hornet" - didn't seem to affect the game

Not sure I fully get the screening/strike force difference. I was still able to move in and directly attack Fast CVs with Strike Forces. Seemed like the first attack didn't do much damage but the second attack did. I'll plan to play around with it some more.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 8:58:42 PM   
Hairog


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Screaming foxes are made up of Destroyers, frigates, Destroyer escorts. they are designed to 2 keeps more powerful task forces away some more vulnerable task forces such as assault task forces, carrier task forces. You should use them as blocking to keep the readers and strike forces away from your carrier.

Strike forces are made up of battleships and cruisers. they are designed to hunt down other surface ships and attack them with naval gun fire. If you noticed screening forces can only be a maximum strength of six where aò m.p.h.s strike task forces can be up to ten. They also have different capabilities when attacking and evading.

Bottom line is, you should not go into battle without proper screening forces and put your carriers in danger.

< Message edited by Hairog -- 9/29/2019 7:01:30 PM >


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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 9:00:10 PM   
Hairog


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The previous message was sent from my phone

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/21/2019 11:56:18 PM   
ThunderLizard2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hairog

Screaming foxes are made up of Destroyers, frigates, Destroyer escorts. they are designed to 2 keeps more powerful task forces away some more vulnerable task forces such as assault task forces, carrier task forces. You should use them as blocking to keep the readers and strike forces away from your carrier.

Strike forces die easy but are easy to recover and cheap. Historically destroyersN frigates smaller ships where sunk by the hundreds, where as Capital ships very rarely sunk. What powerful ships away from your carriers.

Strike forces are made up of battleships and cruisers. they are designed to hunt down other surface ships and attack them with naval gun fire. If you noticed screening forces can only be a maximum strength of six where aò m.p.h.s strike task forces can be up to ten. They also have different capabilities when attacking and evading.

Bottom line is, you should not go into battle without proper screening forces and put your carriers in danger.



Makes sense. The US AI needs to build more screens in that case as it was easy to decimate their fleet.

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RE: Naval Mod needs testing and input - 3/22/2019 1:47:42 AM   
Hairog


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In regards to the message about the Hornet. I'm going to have to contact Hubert on that one because if you go to the file the Hornet is in there and I didn't change anything. Three other campaigns do the same thing with different units always coming up missing even through they are there.

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