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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer

 
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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 6/28/2019 4:55:29 PM   
Hellen_slith


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All righty, back in the saddle here. Knee is much better past few days. ANYWAY:

So, it is very interesting now to pick this one up again after being on the back burner so long.

My, how things have changed for Herr Schicklebruber. Rumor has it that the Nazis have outlawed Christmas 1941 and ordered all ge-giftens be turned in to the nearest Gauleiter (esp. coats, sweaters, scarves, and fruitcakes) for immediate transport to the Eastern Frozen Land.

The 19th, 20th, 30th, 31st, and 50th Soviet Armies (and a lot of ad hoc units) have burst through Velikiye Luke area and are skiing SE toward Yvalma (sp?), to cut off the upper 1/3 of AGC....

While around AGC southern tip, the 40th (and 26th?) Soviet Army and their ad hoc units has punched holes in the armor and is racing to link also at Yylvama. At which time, those Nazis will face the hangman.

The 3rd and 4th Soviet Shock Armies are skiing their way and are almost to Moscow, where there await about 1.5 million souls lined up ready to hit AGC right in the center.





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 6/30/2019 10:47:50 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I'm dying to know how AGC is doing now. Does Elmer pull them back before they get surrounded? Do you try to pull them back playing as Axis? If you can destroy AGC then Berlin is vulnerable. A couple of good Soviet tank units can probably get to Berlin ( without any interference ) in about 15 turns or so. This is turning out to be a surprisingly short war. Way to go.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/30/2019 10:48:32 AM >


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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 6/30/2019 8:49:32 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Germans are moving now (Dec. 7, 1941) on their move 49.

I find that it isn't quite as bad for AGC as it looked ... AGC has won the race to Vyazma to avoid being completely cut off there.

But, AGC is still going have to fight their way back to Smolensk to avoid capture. That's the solid German railhead point for AGC, so Smolensk is now the target for both sides.

The Soviet Moscow Front still has to slog its way through all that snow to make contact ... at least a turn or two for that ... so with a graduated "attack to the rear" the Germans AGC just might be able to hang on through the winter.

As for Leningrad and Kharkov ... not sure for them (from the German point of view). Thinking about railing Karl to Smolensk while I still can, to lay down some "fire for effect" so as to help out AGC.

If I can turn some of AGN and AGS toward AGC (some from Leningrad, some from Kharkov) I might be able to save AGC from collapse and have another go at Moscow come Spring 1943 (!!).

Not sure, I need to check the reinforcements schedule. One thing sure, it is going to be long long winter for the Germans. With this holiday week and all yard work done, planning to advance the game at least 10 or so moves these next few days and see what happens.

PS: this game is the "original" D21 that came with the disc ... how does the upgrades of this scene stack up, as far as Elmer AI? Right now, I am moving for both sides. I'm having too much fun right now to let Elmer have a go at it again yet :) Will post pics from German side when I get done w/ their turn #49

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 6/30/2019 9:52:17 PM   
Hellen_slith


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AG Center w/ supply shown and stack strengths ... not too awfully horrible bad, but definitely concerning. I think a graduated retreat to Smolensk to hunker down there for the winter might get us over the hump ....





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/2/2019 2:45:52 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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(1) Would it be okay for you to give us a zoomed out view of the front lines now?

(2) Is it possible for the Axis units to recover from this and maybe continue the
advance in the spring?

(3) Are the Soviets going to continue their push and try to split the Axis lines in
two or something?

(4) What's going on in the south. Is it possible for the Soviets to capture the
minor Axis allies countries and eleminate them from the war?


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/2/2019 2:46:43 PM >


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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/3/2019 3:40:47 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

(1) Would it be okay for you to give us a zoomed out view of the front lines now?

(2) Is it possible for the Axis units to recover from this and maybe continue the
advance in the spring?

(3) Are the Soviets going to continue their push and try to split the Axis lines in
two or something?

(4) What's going on in the south. Is it possible for the Soviets to capture the
minor Axis allies countries and eleminate them from the war?



Sure, map follows. Axis AGC is recovering, they just needed to pull back a bit and await reinforcements.

Leningrad is just going to have to wait. Kharkov is about to be over-run by AGS, and northern elements of AGS [48th Pz Korps and Viking Div in particular are already on their way to help relieve pressure on AGC ...

Smolensk has a solid rail head, so it is pretty quick to rush reinforcements there by rail, as I've already done w/ some SS and the big arty from Leningrad ... they are already in Smolensk now.) Soviets will have to hope that they can hold on to the little that they've accomplished w/ this little winter counter-offensive.

Soviets can't capture (yet) the minors in the deep south, although they've made stabs at seaborne operations against Odessa. The Rumanians / Hungarians / Czechs have the south fairly well under control. We shall see what the Sovs can do the rest of December. I am surprised that, little did I know, this is pretty much historical w/ the gains made by Sovs, at least against AGC. Fun game!






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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/4/2019 1:01:48 AM   
Hellen_slith


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Soviets are up to bat again ... Oh LAWD ...
300 plus moves to go ...





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/4/2019 5:48:27 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

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Interesting campaign, following closely.

Will you try a big encirclement at Vyazma or several smaller ones? With reinforcements coming, it's probably better to go with the latter option.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/6/2019 3:00:00 PM   
Hellen_slith


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AGC Hangs on! By the skin of their teeth! Smolensk and Vyazma are safe ... for now.

Orel is looking bad, though. Need those reinforcements from AGN. They are having to fight there way through the snow to relieve the encampment trapped around Orel.

Kharkov is going to fall one of these days. Leningrad ... status quo. Long winter all around.





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/10/2019 12:49:35 AM   
Hellen_slith


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I had a scary this morning when it said this when I tried to load the game. Tried again ... same thing. Rebooted, and it finally worked. Any ideas what might have happened? I did the same thing I always been doing, I guess Hitler not happy now that his Wehrmacht is in full get out of town retreat. Will post a picture of Nazi move #55 here in a bit.





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/10/2019 12:58:49 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

Rebooted, and it finally worked. Any ideas what might have happened?

When you say you rebooted do you mean you rebooted your computer or just TOAW IV? I've had the game engine get confused before too and turning TOAW off and then back on usually fixes the problem. I've had some of the game elements disappear before, the status bar at the bottom, the button group box, the mini-map, etc. And I reboot TOAW and they reappear like normal.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/10/2019 1:48:21 AM   
Hellen_slith


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I tried both. Just restarting the game did not help, I had to reboot the computer and then it worked (good thing, too, b/c I was about to have a really really anger if the game wouldn't load.)

But it did, so ... now on Germans #55, and they are getting hammered by wave after wave on the Moscow front. For every Soviet unit that evaporates by throwing itself against the German line, two more show up to take its place. I am surprised the Orel Pocket still holds on ... they've got to be almost out of bullets by now, but they are really saving Bryansk by holding on. Finally getting a few reinforcements to Narvik and Smolensk.

Anyway, found a really interesting old propaganda piece about this winter counter-offensive, narrated by Edgar G. Robinson, called "Moscow Strikes Back" (from 1942). You may have seen it.

If not ... forwarning, there are some pretty gruesome pics of what the Sovs found back there in Einsatzgruppen Land. Not for the squeamish. Otherwise, I thought it was pretty good and rousing. Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZqK4dBQvI

ok, well, here is the map. Germans are in full retreat / defend now.








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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 3:07:29 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Well, I have reached calendar year 1942 in game, so I thought it would be a good time to recap. Here is major German losses so far, will post Soviet losses and the latest map in following.





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 3:10:40 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Here is Soviet losses as of Dec. 31, 1941





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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 3:24:17 PM   
Hellen_slith


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And the map as of today / Jan. 1942, in the midst of Soviet counter-offensive. I cycled through the last turn w/ no movement (New Year cease-fire?) to get the screenshots. Overall: I reached w/in 100 kilometers of Moscow when General Winter struck.

Kharkov will stand. Leningrad will stand. Bryansk now hangs in the balance, as all Germans are now in full retreat / defend mode, but I am finally getting some more hefty reinforcements for the Germans and am confident that Smolensk / AGC and the Baltic States will hold for a good long while to await more reinforcements.

I have started to slowly let Elmer take over again for Soviets, using Mr. Cross's helpful guide to learn how to assign only a formation or two at a time to be under PO control, trying to learn how I might be able to "adjust" the PO "on the fly" for more discreet operations. This is an interesting learning experience, and a fun scene to play (bear in mind, this is the version of D21 that came with the disk, not the latest version.)

The most troubling part (other than AGC) for the Germans, is AGS ... Soviet Marines have retaken Odessa, so I need to get some sea interdiction going in the Black Sea to prevent any more incursions down there. Kiev is already being reinforced. I would like to be able to reinforce more down there but the Rumanians etc. are on their own for the time being. Anyway, here is the map now






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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 3:42:23 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

I have started to slowly let Elmer take over again for Soviets, using Mr. Cross's helpful guide to learn how to assign only a formation or two at a time to be under PO control, trying to learn how I might be able to "adjust" the PO "on the fly" for more discreet operations. This is an interesting learning experience, and a fun scene to play (bear in mind, this is the version of D21 that came with the disk, not the latest version.)

Am I to understand that you are adjusting the objectives for the formations to tweak their performance and give them a different track to trace out on the ground? That sounds way cool beans. The problem however is that I'm not aware of a way to save those adjusted tracks as a file so that you can incorporate the new tracks into a new version of the scenario. Maybe if you rename the SAL file as SCE and in the editor save it as a GAM file and then use the adjusted GAM file data to change the objectives section of the GAM file you're going to use as the new scenario? I've never tried that. Sounds like it might turn out to be quite a bit of work. Maybe not. Other than that I've given it some thought and I'm coming up empty.

I'm wondering if it's possible to separate the game part from the editor part. That way when I'm working on a scenario I can have the editor running in background to adjust the data while I use the game to see what the change did to the layout, etc. All without that clumsie "go to game" or "go to editor" swapout. My W10 troubleshooter says that TOAW is suspected of having a memory leak, BTW. If the game engine ever does a CTD I like to include the toaw_log.txt file in the data I send to the developer and I'm not sure if you've noticed or not that the toaw_log.txt file gets pretty big after a while and I dislike sending huge files through the interweb so I've been known to save my game and shut down TOAW and then restart it and reload my game just to make the toaw_log.txt file start over in it's size.


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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 4:34:16 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

I have started to slowly let Elmer take over again for Soviets, using Mr. Cross's helpful guide to learn how to assign only a formation or two at a time to be under PO control, trying to learn how I might be able to "adjust" the PO "on the fly" for more discreet operations. This is an interesting learning experience, and a fun scene to play (bear in mind, this is the version of D21 that came with the disk, not the latest version.)

Am I to understand that you are adjusting the objectives for the formations to tweak their performance and give them a different track to trace out on the ground? That sounds way cool beans. ...


Oh no, I haven't yet got anywhere near adjusting objective tracks ... I am currently only just today experimenting with the PO control aspects for the Soviets. I am still studying on those, but in general they are explained to some extent in Mr. Cross's Interface Guide (sorry I don't have a link, it is here on these forums somewhere. Not sure how I found it, but it explains [around page 40] how to make the PO work for only one formation at a time.)

When I say slowly, I mean as in molto largissimo sense ... as in, I am only now figuring out how to even SEE how to make just one Soviet formation move under PO control in this ... and it is pretty intense, b/c ALL of the PO is enabled by default for Sovs for ALL formations, so you have to go through the whole OOB to turn it off / on just to get one formation under PO control, at least as far as I can tell so far. I distinguish here, between "objective tracks" and mere "PO control."

I agree, it would be really cool to be able to adjust the PO "on the fly" easily, but so far (for me, a techno klutz) I am only scratching the surface, and probably badly at that.

My current goal, is to figure out how to make just one formation on the Soviet side (e.g., the Fifth Shock Army) be controlled by the PO in the way I think it should go ... which is a real chore so far; and frankly, it is easier just to move it ad hoc for now.

But figuring out how to do that over the next 10 moves or so is one of my goals.

Not sure how to save that as part of the overall game ... I suspect that that is not possible w/o going into the editor etc. ... but it is something that I want to learn, as far as what is possible to do "on the fly" within the ongoing game.

I hope that makes sense!! I feel like I am rambling. Any news on the new Next War front? I wish they would release that, even if it is plagued w/ the CTD issue. Ok, well, back to the drawing board!! Thanks, Larry!


< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 7/12/2019 4:35:51 PM >

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 4:54:22 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I found this by accident just now:




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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 5:01:18 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I had a hard time getting the PO turned on. I had to use some menu options under advanced player options.




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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 5:12:05 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Thank you, Larry! Those are very helpful tips ... will continue experimenting here on my end, too.

Thanks again!!

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 8:28:39 PM   
Zovs


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IINM I think it's also in the Manual and I think Bob made a post here about this someplace.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer / Solitaire - 7/12/2019 11:20:11 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Not sure about the manual, but I thihk Bob's post that I referenced I found the info is at

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4380544

that post has screenshots from the Interface Guide I mentioned

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/18/2019 2:12:22 AM   
Hellen_slith


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Here is AGC holding on (barely) as the Soviet winter counter-offensive finally begins to wind down.

Sometime around when the next mud season kicks in I will revert to Elmer control of Soviet of the PO. In the meantime, some house rules I've started making for myself when moving Soviet units for Elmer:

1) Of the Soviet Shock Armies that are on the map right now, only 1st Shock units may attack. (the other Shock Armies did not come in theatre until late 1942, so I am marking them "hands off" for now, moving them only Eastward to their historical theatres of operation for winter 1942 operations) ...

2) Otherwise limiting Soviet attacks to only those units that are in their historical operating theatres as of this winter counteroffensive, using Grantz's "Colossus Reborn" book as a guide (because the units got scattered so wildly the first 30 turns ... taking the time basically to get the formations back in cohesion in their theatres of operation for Elmer)

3) NKVD units may only perform rear security. No stacking NKVD for front line defense and no attacks. NKVD units must stay w/ their assigned formations and only the rear.

As I try to learn more about the Soviet side of things, I will continue to limit my actions so as to not take undue advantage of the overwhelming force on the Soviet side ....

Okay, anyway, As you can see I have stretched that Northern flank pretty badly, and the gash around Yukhnov is pretty serious. Soviet airborne landed south of Viazma but were finally repulsed.

Germans now have a few more tank and infantry divisions 150% supplied now in Minsk, ready to rail to Smolensk. The Minsk - Smolensk rail connection must remain open at all costs as that is where reinforcements are coming from. Okay, well, back to the game! Will try to wrap up this winter bit by the end of next week, then we'll see how Elmer handles the muddy tooty raspazootsy time.






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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/18/2019 5:58:46 AM   
StuccoFresco

 

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Interesting house rules.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/18/2019 5:59:38 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

Interesting house rules.


Yes, and I keep vacillating about the issue; on one hand, I know I messed up the Germans pretty badly, so I want to just go ahead and wipe them out as quickly as I can and see how long it would take me to get to Berlin. At the same time, I don't want to be too ahistorical about it.

On the other, I want to learn about the Soviets and how it went historically (thus my interest in getting an idea of all the formations and how they operated in theatre.)

I guess my conundrum is best illustrated comparing the Shock Armies (1st is just now getting to front line action; historically, the 2d Shock etc. didn't come on line until the 1942 offensive in Grantz's book ... so I want to keep them back until later in 1942)

as opposed to (for example) the 2d Guards (historically, Stalingrad) ... but Stalingrad isn't even an issue for the Soviets or the Germans now. AGS is crumbling, too. So 2d Guards is now leading a counter-offensive around Kharkov.

What a mess. Maybe I will just go full bore toward Berlin, at least w/ reasonable force and get it over with. I guess I should look at it as, "What if the Germans just fell apart disastrously in winter 1941-42?" (which is what is happening)... <sigh>

Ok, well, I'll just go for Berlin ... but also rein in some of the Soviets (e.g., like keeping NKVD in the rear security role).

I really need Soviet rail repair ... I'm not finding any units that can do that yet.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/18/2019 9:18:13 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I found some RR engineers in a Motor Engineer unit so look through your Motor Engineer units for your RR engineers.




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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/19/2019 2:52:52 AM   
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The Soviets did indeed have a habit of assigning up to 12 RR construction and repair squads with RVGK motorized engineer regiments. They sometimes included a handful of squads with construction battalions too.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/19/2019 10:41:01 AM   
Hellen_slith


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Grantz writes, "On the eve of the war, the NKO ... fielded 13 new railroad brigades by June, each consisting of three railroad route battalions, a railroad bridge battalion and a separate railroad exploitation company.[74] When Operation Barbarossa began, 10 of these brigades were supporting movement into and within the western military districts.[75]" Colossus Reborn @ 352.

These specialized forces were in addition to the specialized RR support troops already embedded within the field forces.

Be that as it may, for me in this game, I do not have ANY railroad repair teams. They are simply not on the map, as shown by the the number "Assigned" in the below inventory report.

We'll just have to walk to Berlin and put the supplies on pack mules.







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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/19/2019 10:47:59 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Check the expected reinforcements dialog for entry of units that might have your
RR engineers. OR open a second session of TOAW and pull your scenario into the
editor and check the Soviet side units for your RR engineers and when they enter
the game.

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RE: AAR D21 Hellen v. Computer - 7/21/2019 5:12:21 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Ok, will keep looking.

Anyway, here is map as of end of Jan. 1942. The Soviet winter counter-offensive is winding down.

Germans are Barely holding on to Bryansk. German building forces in Minsk for when the ground dries up later (or can rail to Smolensk if need more reinforcements there.)

I think the Germans have weathered the storm for now. But they too weak to do anything except hunker down for another month or two.








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