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RE: 10.7.-16.7.41

 
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RE: 10.7.-16.7.41 - 2/18/2019 6:38:17 PM   
bigbaba1111

 

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oh my..i really doubt if he will get a dnjepr crossing before turn 11 or so. south is a mess.

(in reply to MarauderPL)
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RE: 10.7.-16.7.41 - 2/18/2019 11:08:19 PM   
iwolfhound

 

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One wonders if Pavlov is in the game just to be shot?

He got a bad deal from Stalin and Stavka.

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RE: 10.7.-16.7.41 - 2/20/2019 7:14:38 AM   
821Bobo


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I have interesting weekend behind me and then had busy days in work. I will update later today or tomorrow.

But can say that things changed in favor of Axis in north and I don't share your scepticism about Axis ability to cross Dneper in south.

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17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 2:29:53 PM   
821Bobo


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17.7.-23.7.41

Factories evacuated
Nikolaev 3 HI 3 ARM
Leningrad 1 T-50 13 ARM
Gomel 2 ARM

Disaster in north. The 3 Panzer corps swept through my defense and crossed Luga. I cut it off but damage is done. Adding third Panzer corps here really makes difference.




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Post #: 34
17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 2:31:32 PM   
821Bobo


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Center quiet.




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17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 2:34:41 PM   
821Bobo


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Pocket in south definitely sealed and I once again retreated(probably) one turn too soon. Notice the pocket inside pocket




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< Message edited by 821Bobo -- 2/20/2019 2:35:23 PM >

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 3:58:58 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

17.7.-23.7.41

Factories evacuated
Nikolaev 3 HI 3 ARM
Leningrad 1 T-50 13 ARM
Gomel 2 ARM

Disaster in north. The 3 Panzer corps swept through my defense and crossed Luga. I cut it off but damage is done. Adding third Panzer corps here really makes difference.



Snake like attacks (or pencil attacks shown in orange) never had the desired outcome in my playbook. Too easy for the Soviets to control this type of depth attack. Which normally prolongs the German agony. But of course this is just my 2 cents & the Soviets have a nice delaying action set up already.






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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 5:26:08 PM   
Fanstar1

 

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Germans had vitebsk by 10th of July historically. They seem a bit behind schedule in center.

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 5:42:22 PM   
821Bobo


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Yes they are, but in north are ahead. Which can change a lot because 3 Panzer corps would be free for redeployment soon.

In general HLYA is right about the "snake like attacks" but it doesn't apply in north as there is no space for retreat. Basically I lost 6 hexes of good terrain and only 6 more are between spearhead and Leningrad.

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:06:05 PM   
STEF78


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

17.7.-23.7.41
…/...
Disaster in north. The 3 Panzer corps swept through my defense and crossed Luga. I cut it off but damage is done. Adding third Panzer corps here really makes difference.
.../...

Leningrad is impossible to hold if the german is really focused on it

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:06:09 PM   
Dinglir


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I would assume that the Panzers at the front of the spearhead will find it hard to advance much further until the infantry shows up and widens the breach to three hexes wide. Without knowing the fuel state of the Panzers it looks as if they will have at least two turns until fuel resupply can flow to the units.

Next turn, the Panzers will recieve no fuel and will need to consolidate in order to avoid getting cut off once more. The turn after that you will hug them close with expendable Rifle units and restrict the flow of fuel.

I assess that the Germans would need another five turns or so (depending on yor defensive measures of course) before they are at the Neva River in strength. Is your assessment different from that? If so, would you share your insights?




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Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:26:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Yes they are, but in north are ahead. Which can change a lot because 3 Panzer corps would be free for redeployment soon.

In general HLYA is right about the "snake like attacks" but it doesn't apply in north as there is no space for retreat. Basically I lost 6 hexes of good terrain and only 6 more are between spearhead and Leningrad.


The net result is pretty much the same since the Germans still have to clear the trash you left behind.

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Space we can recover; time never

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:26:55 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

17.7.-23.7.41
…/...
Disaster in north. The 3 Panzer corps swept through my defense and crossed Luga. I cut it off but damage is done. Adding third Panzer corps here really makes difference.
.../...

Leningrad is impossible to hold if the german is really focused on it


100% correct. Near impossible & when you do try and hold it with the Soviets the manpower drain is great to try and defend it.

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Space we can recover; time never

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:28:19 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

I would assume that the Panzers at the front of the spearhead will find it hard to advance much further until the infantry shows up and widens the breach to three hexes wide. Without knowing the fuel state of the Panzers it looks as if they will have at least two turns until fuel resupply can flow to the units.

Next turn, the Panzers will recieve no fuel and will need to consolidate in order to avoid getting cut off once more. The turn after that you will hug them close with expendable Rifle units and restrict the flow of fuel.

I assess that the Germans would need another five turns or so (depending on yor defensive measures of course) before they are at the Neva River in strength. Is your assessment different from that? If so, would you share your insights?





You are correct Dinglir. By the time the Germans unfook themselves from this the 6 hex gain in one turn turns out to be the same if not longer. That is why I try and not do a snake/pencil attack.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/20/2019 6:29:39 PM >


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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:29:14 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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If Axis infantry can push up enough to secure the panzers supply lines next turn then there could be a nasty HQBU prepared

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/20/2019 6:35:20 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

If Axis infantry can push up enough to secure the panzers supply lines next turn then there could be a nasty HQBU prepared


I put high doubts on an HQBU next turn. Just my intuition here but could definitely support such a move. Germans should always push Leningrad as #1 priority over everything else on the map. Unless going for both Moscow & Leningrad which I always do.

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Space we can recover; time never

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RE: 17.7.-23.7.41 - 2/21/2019 12:40:09 PM   
MarauderPL

 

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The snake like attacks have their uses - they make the soviets retreat faster than they would normally do. So if you intend to get terrain instead of focusing on encirclement thats they way to go. But getting cut off at the base of the thrust is a capital punishment material!

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Post #: 47
24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 1:00:31 PM   
821Bobo


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24.07.-30.07.41

Factories evacuated
Leningrad 5 HI 5 Vehicle
Dnepropetrovsk 5 HI KV-1

In north, Panzers had enough fuel to break my wall and captured Oranienbaum. Counter attack pushed them back and routed one regiment but the level 4 fort is gone.




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Post #: 48
24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 1:03:47 PM   
821Bobo


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In the center Germans crossed Dneper and established 2 bridgeheads. Both were attacked and both attacks failed miserably.




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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 1:08:22 PM   
821Bobo


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In south Axis cleared the pocket and advanced towards Dneper. Also Soviet commandos from the marches raided one of the railroads enemy is using to supply AGS.




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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 1:12:15 PM   
821Bobo


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Oddessa, advancing Romanians have problems down here. Every turn I am doing sorties from here and pounding them.




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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 4:00:11 PM   
821Bobo


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Some numbers after first month of war. So far critical is only manpower.




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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/22/2019 4:18:50 PM   
Neogodhobo


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I see you are going to defend Odessa with all your might !! Good, cant wait to see what happens there down the line :)

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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/23/2019 2:46:57 AM   
bigbaba1111

 

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nice defense at odessa. he must comit some high quality german units there or the rumanians will never get the city and a blizzard with odessa in russian hands is a nightmare for the axis.:) i know what i am talking about.

the attack at oranienburg looks like a nightmare for axis. this single line of panzer units must be totally dry and it will take some turns to widen the gap and free this units.

in my game i tried to follow some hints from the forum here and attack on a borader front in the north while trying to attack soviet stacks so they have to rout (stacks with another full stack behind them). their loses are very heavy and also my opponent has to deal with a dozen routed and useless divisions each turn.

< Message edited by bigbaba1111 -- 2/23/2019 2:47:36 AM >

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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/23/2019 11:17:39 AM   
Dinglir


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I assume the northern image is after your moves. Even so, I see a possibility for destroying a German Motorized Division and at least one German Panzer Regiment in this area. Obviously, I can not see the CV's on the counters above, but had I been the Axis player, I would be worried.

I wonder how other people see the Odessa situation. If I were the Axis, I would be tempted to just leave the bridgehead where it is and set up some Rumanians to guard it. The threat from that would be a Soviet attack that forces the Rumanians to surrender come 1942, but in order to do this, the Soviets will have to advance some 14 hexes at least. This would give the Germans plenty of time to arrive at the scene. Meanwhile, all Soviets in the area would be in beachhead supply mode limiting their offensive capabilities. I always find the choice of defending Odessa heavily or not a difficult choice.

In any case, the Rumanians should push through to the shores of the Black Sea east of Odessa before tangling with the city defenses.

_____________________________

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To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/23/2019 11:32:54 AM   
821Bobo


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Yes, its after my moves. I did few counter attacks they did fail even I had 2:1 advantage. I guess I am not used for the alt CV, looks like it favors Axis as they have more support.

The main idea behind Odessa defense is to gain cheap victories for cav divs to get guards.

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RE: 24.07.-30.07.41 - 2/23/2019 3:48:22 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

Yes, its after my moves. I did few counter attacks they did fail even I had 2:1 advantage. I guess I am not used for the alt CV, looks like it favors Axis as they have more support.

The main idea behind Odessa defense is to gain cheap victories for cav divs to get guards.


My only contribution to this game was devoting a lot of time watching combat at high message levels. Some combats taking an hour or so. This game is about firepower that influences CV. Leadership affects CV also. Let’s attack a swamp hex with a starting CV 4:1. The defense has support SU’s maybe some engineers and guns. The attacker had no SU’s ..When the shooting is done the attacker might be looking at less than 1:1!

I have a grasp of the German firepower a lot more than the Soviet. But I understand Soviet leadership can 1/2 CV when the die roll fails. On the firepower side the Germans typically get more wacks in and the Soviets need a lot more SU support. I will let a Soviet fanboy comment.

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31.07.-06.08.41 - 2/24/2019 5:02:40 PM   
821Bobo


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31.07.-06.08.41

Factories evacuated
Dnepropetrovsk 16 ARM
Gomel 2 HI
Kremenchug 2 HI
Krivoi Rog 3 HI
Kolpino 1 ARM

Solidified the defense in north. No major attacks.




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< Message edited by 821Bobo -- 2/24/2019 5:03:05 PM >

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RE: 31.07.-06.08.41 - 2/24/2019 5:06:25 PM   
821Bobo


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Germans expanded the bridgehead so I ordered retreat behind the next river.
Partisans conducted 2 attacks around Minsk but this is not very helpful because another railhead is at Vitebsk.




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RE: 31.07.-06.08.41 - 2/24/2019 5:08:41 PM   
821Bobo


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South quiet. Axis units only approached Soviet lines.




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