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Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night Fighters

 
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Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night Fighters - 2/6/2019 2:52:39 PM   
Macclan5


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Gentlemen.

What / how is the most effective manner to get 'F4U or F6F Night fighters aboard your carriers' ?

As always I appreciate it is situational.

However do you generally:

1) Resize (manually) TBDs etc to allow an additional airgroup aboard per ship ? i.e. add a fractional squadron to a number of carriers ?

2) Dump in entirety a squadron from one carrier and anchor the night fighter squadron there ?

Situ:

In about 44 the Allied commander gets ~ as I recall ~ firstly a disjoint squadron of F4U Corsair Night Fighters Carrier capable (with a withdrawal date) and latter a couple full squadrons of F6F Night Fighters Carrier Capable tethered to AirOps Central Pacific

In my first couple play through - I dumped WASPs TBD capability - consolidated the F4Us on board and flew them as 'night cap' over Task Force 58 so to speak - however as mentioned they come in increments of 4 as I recall and loading 8 or 12 onto WASP actually was effective - kept WASP in limit (1 or 2 planes short of 100%). In fact in raiding the Mariana's / Iwo / Naha / Luzon these F4U's scored a number of kills from 'night Betties'

Then they withdraw going into late 44 as the F6F arrive.

The F6F are full squadrons as I recall... 24 planes potentially taking WASP over 110%.

So I was looking for 'best practice'

If you subdivide the F6F night squads - you can probably load ' a handful ' on a number of Carriers..?

Or simply load up WASP* again and sacrifice the attack capability of a bigger sister i.e. Essex... ?

*old WASP


'side note' : if I recall correctly from historical OOB - reading books - most the big Carriers had a partial compliment of night fighters i.e. 4 - 6 - x-reference Battle of Leyte ....

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 2/6/2019 3:02:06 PM >


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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/6/2019 10:43:29 PM   
BBfanboy


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You never really need a lot of night fighters up. Night attacks by the enemy will not be massive and from all vectors, so your ships can easily vector your NFs to the approaching aircraft. A couple of engagements should result in the attack being broken up. Occasionally you actually shoot something down. But you are not going to operate large groups of NFs in the same airspace where they cannot see each other!

So, split your NF squadrons into groups of 6-8 per carrier and make sure you do not exceed 5 air units per carrier.

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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/7/2019 4:33:05 AM   
spence

 

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I always thought that the F6Fs/F4Us carrier night fighters coordinated with an Air Intercept Radar-equipped TBM. The radar equipped plane vectored the night fighters to within visual range of the night intruder such that the fighter could actually see the exhaust of the intruder's engine(s). In theory the night fighter then shot down the intruder.

As far as how it works in the game BBFanboy's advice seems pretty good (I've never gotten past mid-43 in the game so I've never experienced the "end game" stuff).

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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/7/2019 8:10:14 AM   
Buckrock

 

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There were some instances of aircraft like radar-equipped TBM's attempting to support fighter intercepts in the early, make-shift attempts to deal with night attacks by Japanese aircraft but by the start of '44, all the carrier based VF(N) aircraft (F6F or F4U night variants) appear to have been equipped with some form of AI radar of their own, as they are in the game. They would be vectored in to the target either singly or in pairs by the air search radar of whatever ship was acting as FDO and would then normally use their own AI radar to attempt the intercept.

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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/7/2019 9:55:58 AM   
Barb


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IRL:
1. First Night fighters were only operated from land bases - e.g. VF(N)-75 equipped with F4U-2 in Solomons
2. When the need arise, there was a concept of TBM with radar guiding the normal fighter to the intruder (a combined TBM/F4U-2 unit would be hard to create in the game)
3. When radar equipped fighter planes become available (F4U-2/F6F-3N) these were at first assigned to standard carrier squadrons (mixed day/night unit would be hard to create in the game)
4. It was discovered that full day/night flight ops on carrier were too tiring, so the USN decided to "specialize":
CVG(N)-53 on USS Saratoga comprising VF(N)-53 and VT(N)-53
CVG(N)-90 on USS Enterprise comprising VF(N)-90 and VT(N)-90
CVG(N)-91 on USS Bon Homme Richard comprising VF(N)-91 and VT(N)-91
CVLG(N)-41 on USS Independence comprising VF(N)-41 and VT(N)-41
plus few CVEG(N) for escort carriers were based on a single carrier so the crews can get some "rest" during the day.

You actually do get few of these groups in the game (or gets renamed?), or you can track them down through aircraft upgrade path having F6F-3N/F6F-5N or F4U-2.
You can also check this site: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-Wings/1942/1942-Basis-de.htm

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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/7/2019 2:16:02 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

IRL:
1. First Night fighters were only operated from land bases - e.g. VF(N)-75 equipped with F4U-2 in Solomons
2. When the need arise, there was a concept of TBM with radar guiding the normal fighter to the intruder (a combined TBM/F4U-2 unit would be hard to create in the game)
3. When radar equipped fighter planes become available (F4U-2/F6F-3N) these were at first assigned to standard carrier squadrons (mixed day/night unit would be hard to create in the game)
4. It was discovered that full day/night flight ops on carrier were too tiring, so the USN decided to "specialize":
CVG(N)-53 on USS Saratoga comprising VF(N)-53 and VT(N)-53
CVG(N)-90 on USS Enterprise comprising VF(N)-90 and VT(N)-90
CVG(N)-91 on USS Bon Homme Richard comprising VF(N)-91 and VT(N)-91
CVLG(N)-41 on USS Independence comprising VF(N)-41 and VT(N)-41
plus few CVEG(N) for escort carriers were based on a single carrier so the crews can get some "rest" during the day.

You actually do get few of these groups in the game (or gets renamed?), or you can track them down through aircraft upgrade path having F6F-3N/F6F-5N or F4U-2.
You can also check this site: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-Wings/1942/1942-Basis-de.htm



Awesome thanks folks

@ Barb

Perhaps I have not yet played long enough (always stop by August 45) - or missed detail arrival - to track those groups in previous games.

R/L would infer that specialization infers dumping a 'day squadron' off select carriers and specializing on just a few carriers to provide TF night cap.


@ BBfanboy

Fair observation and maybe more practical - through mid 44 till specific squadrons show up per Barb.

I tend to deploy TF58 ( my 'game equivalent') fairly aggressively to strike at Saipan - Luzon - Okinawa when in a position to do so.

Further allowing for circumstances - I may sail north of Iwo Jima with strong CAP trap up and Land based CAP support to withstand - weed out massive Naval / Kamikaze attacks

In two complete games I have actually experienced 'a significant but perhaps not massive' Night Betty raid from multiple bases.

Night CAP tends to 'bounce' the attacks in this game - or at least it has been my experience thus far. However situational the
Night Betties got an actual strike (lucky roll ?) on a carrier / ship as opposed to the day raids which rarely get through .....in end game.... disclaimer = verses the AI








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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/8/2019 11:02:14 AM   
fcooke

 

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That TBM F6F combo seems to be the leading culprit of what cost Butch O'Hare his life, when one of the TBMs seem likely to have shot him down.

I don't think in the game I have ever seen a TBM shoot anything down. I did once have once of the Dutch recce birds shoot down a fighter though - which shocked me. I think it is armed with a single MG - maybe even as small as 7.62.....

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RE: Allied Commanders - advice sought - Carrier Night F... - 2/8/2019 6:15:30 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

I did once have once of the Dutch recce birds shoot down a fighter though - which shocked me. I think it is armed with a single MG - maybe even as small as 7.62.....


Lots of weak Japanese airframes in the early going, so its possible. I shot down a B-17D once with Nate's (rifle caliber weapons). Many damaged reports at first, must have been almost all on the same plane. It finally gave up the ghost.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/8/2019 6:16:02 PM >


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