Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

IJN transport planes

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> IJN transport planes Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
IJN transport planes - 2/3/2019 6:40:28 AM   
awaw

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline
I like to confirm, in a scenario 1, PDU ON game, all IJN transport squadrons (including squadrons that arrive later in game)can upgrade directly to the Emily transport plane types. We need not go through any other plane models, correct? Thanks in advance.

Basically as IJN, I am hoping to build only *that* plane type for naval transport and am wondering if I will hit any major pitfalls.
Post #: 1
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/3/2019 8:12:29 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 1971
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
Edit: oh, wait, that's PDU ON. Every existing IJN transport airframe is available for upgrade for any IJN transport airgroup. Including Emily-L

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 2/3/2019 8:17:34 AM >

(in reply to awaw)
Post #: 2
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/3/2019 9:06:43 AM   
awaw

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline
Thanks!

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 3
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/3/2019 7:05:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5733
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Expensive airframe at 144 HI. I'd probably leave a couple of Tabby's in service just in case I needed a little extra something for an inland supply effort, as all Army transports are only good for one supply point per plane. Tabby is four per IIRC. Emily is six per.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to awaw)
Post #: 4
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 2:49:38 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 621
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: offline
My plan is to just build the Mavis-L then Emily-L for all IJN transport needs.
Expensive aircraft in HI terms but you don’t need many of them so I think they’re worth it. A single factory only sized to suit the demand does the trick.
I want as many factories pumping out fighters as I can so I won’t “waste” one on a second IJN transport aircraft.
Helen KAI is the Army best transport and has 3500 max load. Is it 3500/2000 = 1 supply points?
That would make Tabby 4 and Emily 6.
Manual says land devices > load cost 7 can’t paradrop and > load cost 9 can’t be air transported. Does the plane capacity also play into that or only change the quantity of those devices?
Cheers


_____________________________

Follow the Sapper

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 5
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 3:57:51 AM   
awaw

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline
(Personal opinion)I intend to stick with Thalia for IJA.

1. Available right from start (hence once off supply expenditure for factory expansion)
2. Later models are only marginally better
3. Only drawback is that starting location is Gifu, making it hard for immediate expansions.

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 6
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 12:13:48 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 621
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awaw

(Personal opinion)I intend to stick with Thalia for IJA.

1. Available right from start (hence once off supply expenditure for factory expansion)
2. Later models are only marginally better
3. Only drawback is that starting location is Gifu, making it hard for immediate expansions.


I'm close to finishing a review of all aircraft and engines now for my next game, Scenario 1 to test a few things out.

I was going to use up the 101 x Ha-5 engines without building any more, using them to build 50 x Topsy transports which is also a starting factory.
Topsy have 1 less range than Thalia but 300 more load, so similar capability.
If you don't see much use for Army transport planes you could build those 50 then change the aircraft factory to something else.
The problem for me with the Thalia is that it uses the Nakajima Ha-35 engine, so competes with early war fighters (Zero and Oscar), plus Kate and Babs for that engine.
I'm not keen on wasting a single Nak-35 engine on a transport aircraft, and they need 2 per plane.

The Topsy and Thalia factories are both small, so you can change them relatively cheaply in terms of supply.
My forecast based on 12.5% replacement rate (my guess) of all transport aircraft is about 20 IJA transports required per month in the early war.
As I need to expand an aircraft factory (lower priority compared to fighters) to build this number anyway I was planning on changing the Topsy factory to MC-21 Sally as it has 10 range and the largest early war load of 3000.
I'll keep the starting Ha-5 engine factory for a few months if required to keep MC-21 in service until the KAI Helen arrives.

So many options with aircraft types, but don't forget to consider what engine it uses as well.

_____________________________

Follow the Sapper

(in reply to awaw)
Post #: 7
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 3:32:02 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline
I'm in scenario 2 but i decided to go with the Sally MC-21. It uses Ha-5 engines (which i continue building for a while). It has the greatest load at 3,000. IIRC load is rounded off so 3,000 is 1 and 1/2 times better than Topsy at 2,300. It's durability is 40 which is again 1 and 1/2 times better than any other. I'll give up a hex or two range for the ability to use up old engines, carry as much as possible and survive better when landing in hot areas.

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 8
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 6:18:44 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5733
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Guys, don't get hung up on load. Its all the same when it comes to the army transports. One supply point is carried for 'load'/2000, with at least one if the actual 'load' is <2000. No Japanese army transport has a load of =>4000, so they all carry one supply point per aircraft.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 2/22/2019 6:28:02 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to specie1)
Post #: 9
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/22/2019 6:27:28 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5733
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

The problem for me with the Thalia is that it uses the Nakajima Ha-35 engine


This is why I opt out on that aircraft as well. There's just too much demand for that engine early on. In addition to that, I for one, want to get the pool over 500 for the R&D bonus as well.

In addition there're those Ha-5's just sitting there for 'free'.

quote:

about 20 IJA transports required per month in the early war.


I'd say that's a bit much, but I guess its all about how you use them.

Use the ones in the pools. Use the engines that are already produced, including the ones for that short ranged guy. Can't remember its name, but there're a bunch of engines in the pool for it. By the time I'm done with that the Helen comes naturally in '43.

JMHO. YMMV.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 10
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/23/2019 4:02:08 AM   
awaw

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
I'm close to finishing a review of all aircraft and engines now for my next game, Scenario 1 to test a few things out.


Good for you! I have been "planning" for the last 9 years, keeping in vain hope that one day I can find time to actually play a PBEM. Busy work life, hopefully game is still alive when I get to retire!

I was not detailed in my initial response, when I mentioned going with Thalia only for IJA, I do not mean I drop all other airframes totally, Japan economy just cannot afford it!
quote:


I was going to use up the 101 x Ha-5 engines without building any more, using them to build 50 x Topsy transports which is also a starting factory.
Topsy have 1 less range than Thalia but 300 more load, so similar capability.


This is pretty much what I planned for. What it means is that I do not intend to convert additional squadrons (ie those miserable Theresa) to Topsy. These "cheap" buildouts are to serve as replacements for squadrons already using Topsy at start, conversion to Thalia will be phased in only after Topsy replacements run into deficit. The very first Thalia replacements will be used on changing out Theresa squadrons! Same goes for single squadron that starts with MC Sally, use it and exhaust starting ac pools before even considering swapping!



quote:


If you don't see much use for Army transport planes


While transport squadrons are not sexy, their limited numbers in game pretty much dictate the airlift capability for Japan, these in turn limit how much/fast Japan can react to invasions. So Transport squadrons are very very precious imho.

quote:


The problem for me with the Thalia is that it uses the Nakajima Ha-35 engine, so competes with early war fighters (Zero and Oscar), plus Kate and Babs for that engine.


Agreed this is not optimal, but then this is scenario 1 Japan, every aircraft has sometime that we do not like!

quote:


I'm not keen on wasting a single Nak-35 engine on a transport aircraft, and they need 2 per plane.


I see it from another perspective. Japan limitation is having only X number of supplies to do Y number of factory expansions. To increase Y, the jap player has to lessen combat ops (be it less offensive ops or sorties or whatever). A Na-35 engine is largely similar in constraints to any other at start model in the long run. What you are describing is more of matching "current engine production" to "current aircraft production", something that can be worked around. It is not a hard limit unlike the factory expansions.

quote:


My forecast based on 12.5% replacement rate (my guess) of all transport aircraft is about 20 IJA transports required per month in the early war.


I am currently working with an eventual size 10 Thalia factory. This in in addition to the 50 Topsy that are built from game start. Not quite sufficient I am afraid, but any more will suggest a comparable reduction for other airframes, which are facing similar shortfall forecast. Such is the life of scen 1 JFBs!


< Message edited by awaw -- 2/23/2019 4:07:34 AM >

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 11
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/23/2019 1:14:14 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15568
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
There's a use for everything in the Japanese arsenal! There are 36 of those lousy Theresa transports (the really short ranged ones). There are also 4x 9 plane transport chutai in Manchukuo that are stuck there. Voila! Those are the planes and chutai used for training more transport pilots!

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to awaw)
Post #: 12
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/23/2019 7:18:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 17334
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
I send the Theresa to fly troops from the rail line to Burma early on. Excellent ability to get engineers and av support there quickly.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 13
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/24/2019 4:44:50 AM   
awaw

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline
My personal preference is to not do that. Eventually, I want to buy out all transport squadrons, rather not expend the supply swapping/repairing planes in/out. Each of these sqn is 18 pp, buying out all 4 means really a 2 day delay to whatever buyout schedule one has, otherwise. Of course I am not suggesting one does that right at game start, but really it is not so expensive to slot these in x days after 7/12/41. But then I am just planning, no real gaming experience yet
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

There's a use for everything in the Japanese arsenal! There are 36 of those lousy Theresa transports (the really short ranged ones). There are also 4x 9 plane transport chutai in Manchukuo that are stuck there. Voila! Those are the planes and chutai used for training more transport pilots!



< Message edited by awaw -- 2/24/2019 5:00:27 AM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 14
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/24/2019 6:19:58 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5733
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

There's a use for everything in the Japanese arsenal! There are 36 of those lousy Theresa transports (the really short ranged ones). There are also 4x 9 plane transport chutai in Manchukuo that are stuck there. Voila! Those are the planes and chutai used for training more transport pilots!


Zackly.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 15
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/24/2019 6:25:34 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5733
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

While transport squadrons are not sexy, their limited numbers in game


And this is why I wonder, why we're spending so much time on the subject. There's no need to 'build' many xports. I simply build out what I can with the engines available (Ha-5, Ha-31, Hitachi?, the ones for the Hickory) and wait for the Helen. Its production will be low as well.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 16
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/24/2019 7:04:39 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 621
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: offline
I’ve neglected transports for nearly 10 years, mainly just using them to haul supplies.
Lowpe’s approach to every item in the game seems to be based on asking “what can I do with this?” rather than assuming anything is completely obsolete and useless. So the older planes can be built and the engines used up, but assuming only one factory on transports per service that would cost a bit more supply changing it. Not a lot though and it would free up one more engine factory from day 1. I’m going to start with the Topsy due to the starting factory and the 1 point load thing, then change to something else with an obsolete engine if required until the KAI Helen arrives.
Need a few training sqns, then the others either move supplies or can be used to rapidly move ground units. The airmobile option has sparked a few ideas:
1. help speed up the early offensive phase with paradrops followed by air-land follow up
2. During defensive phase, use for counter attack or counter island invasion rapid response
I want to find ways to use them more which will lead to more ops losses, but haven’t tested my 20 replacements/month guesstimate in anger yet.




_____________________________

Follow the Sapper

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/24/2019 7:53:59 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15568
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
Here's some hard data for you. My PBEM is slightly less than 25 months into the war. Here are my total transport losses:

Air-Flak-Ground-Op

IJA
Ki-57-I: 0-0-5-127
Ki-57-II: 0-0-2-123
Hi-49: 0-0-6-80
Ki-56: 0-0-0-23

Total: 366

IJN
Tina: 7-0-34-135
H6K2-L: 0-0-10-21
H6K4-L: 4-0-26-17
H8K2-L: 0-0-0-5

Total: 259

Grand total: 625 or 25 per month. It's only going to get worse from here on out.

Note that 85% of the losses are op losses. I've been slowly increasing my transport production with time for 2 reasons - higher losses and more transport units.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 18
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/25/2019 9:14:43 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 621
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: The Land Downunder
Status: offline
Thanks Mike, good data. If you don't measure it, you can't manage it. 10-15 per month per service so far.

Slight sidetrack: Do you know how he got the air kills on your navy transports?
Was he sweeping the base you were flying supplies into, or was it CAP on a base you were para dropping onto, or something different?

Cheers

_____________________________

Follow the Sapper

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 19
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/25/2019 10:44:56 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15568
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Thanks Mike, good data. If you don't measure it, you can't manage it. 10-15 per month per service so far.

Slight sidetrack: Do you know how he got the air kills on your navy transports?
Was he sweeping the base you were flying supplies into, or was it CAP on a base you were para dropping onto, or something different?

Cheers


I don't know with any certainty how the losses came about. I'm pretty sure they're relatively recent, so it was most likely LRCAP over a base I was flying troops or supply into.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 20
RE: IJN transport planes - 2/26/2019 1:55:32 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 17334
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Boy oh boy, during the end game you go thru transports super quick. You have a lot of air lift, but they fall from the skies during a gentle wind it seems.


(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> IJN transport planes Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.180