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is this a games forum or stategy games? - 6/18/2003 8:23:59 PM   
master_chief

 

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i see not many console games are featured. explain?

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- 6/18/2003 8:37:21 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Welcome console using fan.

Most console platforms are usually ideally not able to deliver the manner of game, or the market for wargames has differing dynamics would be my initial answer.

That said, Matrix Games is a producer of wargames read computer games, read not console games.
But I could say that about any other wargame forum I know about. So that is not a comment that will be specific to this site.

That said, additionally, the community here likely has numerous console using fans.
So it's not like you won't find someone that wants to discuss PS games or Xbox titles.

But the chances are, that you won't find the specialised forums all that directed at them or interested. You could always post a comment here in General Dscussions though. It is after all just a meeting place for wargamers. And wargamers can play console games too :).

But you won't find any dedicated effort to the latest news where console games are concerned. Not the function of the site.

I think for instance, if you visit a site devoted to say Playstation, you won't get very much interest in the latest developement of the Combat Leader game. Because it isn't a console game.

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- 6/18/2003 8:48:11 PM   
Belisarius


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Good reply, Les. :)

It may be that Matrixgames' target is the "hard-core" or "grognard" war games market, the small niche where players have heavy demands on realism, and are willing to pay the price premium for carefully developed, small volume titles.

It might just be my prejudice, but I can't apply that for the bulk of console gamers. ;) The PC platform probably has a bigger target audience here.

And as Les said, you'll still find lots of console gamers and FPS fans in here anyway.

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- 6/18/2003 10:18:54 PM   
Maliki


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You know what?i probably never would have bought a computer if consoles had some of the game genres that i like,wargames being one that is almost impossible to find on them.I own several consoles and wargames are very few and far between on any of them.I can think of several that i bought though most of those were for the old sega genesis.The newer ones seem not interested in them.

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- 6/18/2003 10:50:05 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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That is largely my feelings Maliki.

I have roamed the aisles of stores and rental operations. I once heard Allied General was an early release PS1 game and I have a tank sim called Panzer Front.

But aside from those two names, I am at my limit to suggest title names I have ever heard of let alone seen made for console.

Perhaps its the demographics, or age group. Perhaps its just that console games typically require a different sort of developement and design.
After all, there is really no research required for Final Fantasy, you just need to hire cutting edge grade software creators.

Wargames on the other hand, well if your game is a joke accuracy wise, we wargamers eat you alive in most cases (it is usually not a pretty sight).

My son has quite the stack of PS1 games, but hmm there is not much in common with Spyro or Crash Bandicoot and Steel Panthers or Strategic Command.
Sure you could probably make them console games, but the work load sure will be different.

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Post #: 5
- 6/18/2003 11:05:07 PM   
Maliki


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]That is largely my feelings Maliki.

I have roamed the aisles of stores and rental operations. I once heard Allied General was an early release PS1 game and I have a tank sim called Panzer Front.

But aside from those two names, I am at my limit to suggest title names I have ever heard of let alone seen made for console.

Perhaps its the demographics, or age group. Perhaps its just that console games typically require a different sort of developement and design.
After all, there is really no research required for Final Fantasy, you just need to hire cutting edge grade software creators.

Wargames on the other hand, well if your game is a joke accuracy wise, we wargamers eat you alive in most cases (it is usually not a pretty sight).

My son has quite the stack of PS1 games, but hmm there is not much in common with Spyro or Crash Bandicoot and Steel Panthers or Strategic Command.
Sure you could probably make them console games, but the work load sure will be different. [/B][/QUOTE]

KOEI was one company that for a while came out with them,though these were more of a grand strategy type wargame.I can name Liberty or death,Operation Europe,ok game main interesting point was it was the first game that had a WEGO system that i had played,PTOII for the sega saturn,and Iron Storm for the same,different developer though,and of course the Romance series.Most of these games had some tactical elements to them,though your main concern,except OE,was developing your resources and such.Its said there is no market for these games on consoles,but if you ask me they starve the market until in frustration(like myself)you go searching elsewhere to get your fix in.

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- 6/19/2003 3:20:22 AM   
Paratrooper

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]I once heard Allied General was an early release PS1 game [/B][/QUOTE]

The ONLY reason I purchased PS1 was to play Panzer General and later Allied General. PS1 was significantly cheaper than a PC.

I also have Operation Europe for the Super Nintendo.

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- 6/19/2003 5:33:29 AM   
runes


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i've always been a console gamer,

i dont own any right now, but i (well, not so much anymore) keep/kept to date with the latest console news

i preferred console gaming over pc games, i only played pc games because it's all i had (i'd mooch from friends :) )

sure, you cant replicate certain pc games on consoles, but i always felt console games were stronger -gamewise- because the system is one system. cant be updated or anything, so they need to fix the games. compare first-gen PSX games to, later games, like final fantasy, they look like 2 different systems.

now, that just doenst work for computer games.

you cant play a game from now, and then a game from 5 years from now, with the same performance on the same machine (without upgrades), because it relies on the computer, not the game to make the leaps and bounds...

im a big rpg/action/strategy fan, and i've always felt PC just can't match up to rpgs, action games (not shooters, just action games, or fighting games) or strategy games, but not like CC, like FFT or Shining force

the PC on the other hand, has FPS going for it, and strategy games like CC, or GIcombat and such.

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- 6/19/2003 8:37:46 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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I always thought, well console games are designed with better game controllers, well until my friend showed me the controller he had for his computer that looked exactly like a console controller.

I had thought, perhaps console games might be easier to play. Well that was before I had been exposed to sufficient computer games, to realise, well you can have easy or hard to master games in either case.

I had thought, well console games are an easier purchase. Well not entirely. The cost of a new machine can sometimes be quite steep. Especially when you figure, that the console is not good for much without a few games. PS2 for instance 250.00 plus three games at about 40 bucks each is nearing 400 bucks give or take. I don't routinely have 400 bucks just lying around.
400 bucks will on average finance a full computer upgrade to the next level from where you are.

Most console games don't have the benefit of a computers much superior monitor. I have seen some console versions of some well known games, and the console version was a dim second place copy. To given an example, the game Civilization was not all that thrilling on the console.

Console games are their own niche essentially. If you enjoy Spyro type games, or Final Fantasy types adventures, or Grand Theft Auto type silliness you will enjoy your console experience. They do those games well.
If you are an online gamer, or demand Steel Panthers accuracy, or play most Real time type games though, odds are your will choose a PC over a console.

My son has a console (PS1), but myself, I have really no real interest whatsoever. Consoles don't make the type of games I play.
I once was into sharing getting a PS2 with him. But I only was into getting something to play dvds. I am glad I let him stay with a PS1, and I bought a real dvd player.
He has been saving his own money, and come next christmas, he will have enough for the next leap in console gaming tech if he actually wants one.
Or if he decides the family computer sucks video card wise, he can put the money into getting a serious upgrade with it hehe.

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- 6/19/2003 10:20:22 AM   
Ian Packham

 

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[QUOTE]
Or if he decides the family computer sucks video card wise, he can put the money into getting a serious upgrade with it hehe. [/B][/QUOTE]


Hehehe...now we know why Les does not like 3D wargames.....his video card sucks. Don't worry Les, I will be upgrading my own PC soon and will send you my old Geforce2 card. Then you can be converted into a graphics devotee.:D

PS. I bought a PS2 to play DVD's after I boot my kids off it in the evenings. Killed two birds with one stone.

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- 6/19/2003 10:42:53 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Actually my video card suits my own needs basically. It will play Combat Leader, and what else will I need heheh.

As for dvds, well actually my main reason for dedicated machine, was it also plays MP3s and VCD disks.

Just playing dvds would hardly be reason to get excited.

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- 6/19/2003 3:33:51 PM   
Ian Packham

 

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Actually the best piece of kit I have bought recently is a DAP Jukebox which I have installed in my car and runs off the cigar lighter socket. I now have 1500 songs at my fingertips so all my old audio cassettes and CDs are now gathering dust in my spare room. Highly recommended.

Mind you it takes some time to transfer those songs over. And I have managed to erase some of the wife's favorite love ballads. Darn! Sorry honey, I pressed the wrong button. Hehehe

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- 6/19/2003 3:56:10 PM   
Belisarius


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Ian,

That's cool. Did you wire the car speakers directly to the Jukebox, or are you using some kind of plug-in kit to your car stereo?`

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- 6/19/2003 8:13:29 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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DAP Jukebox? never heard of it.

Can you give me more technical specifics, a buddy of mine might be interested in something like that.

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Post #: 14
- 6/19/2003 8:32:48 PM   
Belisarius


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Les,

The DAP Jukebox is probably known in North America as the Nomad Jukebox. (by Creative).

It's a MP3/WMA player with 10GB storage space.

More info
[URL=http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?maincategory=2&category=2&product=275]here[/URL]. (No plug, just for information...)

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- 6/19/2003 8:43:25 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Thanks. I have a buddy that would likely think of getting something like that.

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Post #: 16
- 6/19/2003 9:10:32 PM   
Marc von Martial


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There´s only ONE jukebox out there, and that´s the Apple I-Pod ;). The rest is just cheap copies :D

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- 6/19/2003 11:23:54 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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If you like stealing music....

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- 6/20/2003 4:05:06 PM   
Ian Packham

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Ian,

That's cool. Did you wire the car speakers directly to the Jukebox, or are you using some kind of plug-in kit to your car stereo?` [/B][/QUOTE]

Just using the plug in cassette kit. Works fine.

I bought my Jukebox for $100 second hand - its the first version with only 6Gig. The 10 gig version holds 2500 songs.

Newer versions have 20 Gig. Is there really any point in getting a version with larger drive? I struggled to find 1500 songs I liked, anything more would be next to impossible.

You could use extra space to increase the sample rate for better sound quality but to be honest for a car stereo, the 128bit rate is good enough.

As for pirate music....I dont know what you are talking about. Hehehe. I was lucky by buying the unit second hand there were already over a thousand songs on the hard drive, most of which I liked and kept. One cool folder contained all the UK No.1 hits from 1960 to 2000, so I was able to get some pretty old songs that you would have difficulty finding elsewhere.

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- 6/20/2003 11:29:26 PM   
Marc von Martial


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
[B]If you like stealing music.... [/B][/QUOTE]

What has that to do with talking about mp3 players? Is now everybody that has an mp3 player a music pirate?

[QUOTE]Mind you it takes some time to transfer those songs over. [/QUOTE]

Do you have USB 2.0 and/or Firewire ?

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- 6/21/2003 1:05:48 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck
[B]What has that to do with talking about mp3 players? Is now everybody that has an mp3 player a music pirate?
[/B][/QUOTE]



How many cds have you converted to mp3?

and how much of the music do you download do you own?


If the answer is all of it...I apologize

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- 6/22/2003 8:25:01 PM   
Blunderbuss

 

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Re. console strategy games. I used to own a PS1 (1996 to 2001), and until I bought this PC three months ago my only games machine was a PS2. There were a fair number of decent strategy games released for the PS1 (eg. Warcraft 2, Command and Conquer original/Red Alert/Retaliation, Warzone 2001, Civilization 2 etc.). The PS2 has had hardly any (the best one I played was Age of Empires 2), and I don't think the X-Box or Gamecube have any at all.

Anyway the PS2 is now gathering dust and it's games are been traded in against PC strategy games (and the odd flight sim.). The price of PC games is much lower than console games. Apart from Rise of Nations, I haven't paid more than £10 for any one game :D. I really should have bought a PC years ago. It's much more versatile than any of the consoles.

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- 6/22/2003 8:29:29 PM   
Maliki


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blunderbuss
[B]Re. console strategy games. I used to own a PS1 (1996 to 2001), and until I bought this PC three months ago my only games machine was a PS2. There were a fair number of decent strategy games released for the PS1 (eg. Warcraft 2, Command and Conquer original/Red Alert/Retaliation, Warzone 2001, Civilization 2 etc.). The PS2 has had hardly any (the best one I played was Age of Empires 2), and I don't think the X-Box or Gamecube have any at all.

Anyway the PS2 is now gathering dust and it's games are been traded in against PC strategy games (and the odd flight sim.). The price of PC games is much lower than console games. Apart from Rise of Nations, I haven't paid more than £10 for any one game :D. I really should have bought a PC years ago. It's much more versatile than any of the consoles. [/B][/QUOTE]

True dat:)

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- 6/22/2003 8:47:19 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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outside of my realm of knowledge, but do console games truely on average cost more than mainstream PC titles?

I mean, the usual lament, applied to wargames, that being price tag, you would think that console games being mass market intended would enjoy better prices :confused:

I still remember my Nintendo days (before rental existed), where you either bought it didn't.
And a game cost you enough cash, that if the game sucked, odds are it was a while before you could afford a new one, to make yourself feel better.
And I recall that the success rate (that being your being happy with the game) was like about 1 in 3.
So you tended to end up with quite a few cartridges, you could less about.

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Post #: 24
- 6/22/2003 9:11:59 PM   
Blunderbuss

 

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Console games are slightly more expensive when first released. You can legally trade them in to retailers when you tire of them. This tends to negate the initial higher purchase price. What I've found with PC games is that their prices drop more quickly than console games. I've picked up what I consider to be some real bargains for my PC (Battle Realms £2.99, Celtic Kings £5, Red Alert 2 £6.66, IL-2 Sturmovik £7.97, Homeworld £2.99, Deus Ex £4.99). Sure, some of them are a bit elderly, but at those prices I don't care! Console games normally fall to £20 and stay there until the system dies.

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- 6/22/2003 9:29:08 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Legally trade em in eh (I know I will regret saying this).

I wonder if that is actually true (just because a store allows it doesn't mean it can).

Watched a good news item yesterday on copywrite (yes the person is a copywrite lawyer).

Fact, a librarian reading a group of children a story in a library is in violation of copywrite law. Insane sounding, but it is also a fact.

To the best of my own knowledge (know I am NOT a copywrite lawyer), if a person makes a thing, and retains the copywrite to that thing, only that person has the right to deliver that item to you.
This doesn't alter if the thing becomes "used".

Remember, I said I was NOT a copywrite lawyer, any that wish to further comment on this, and are also not copywrite lawyers, should keep in mind, they don't "automatically" get to refute me :) .

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Post #: 26
- 6/22/2003 10:20:30 PM   
Blunderbuss

 

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Some of the smaller retailers DO take PC games in part exchange and sell them on again. The largest videogame retailer in the UK is called GAME, and they will not do this. They only accept console games and peripherals. I must admit that I'm not certain why this is the case, but it must have something to do with the agreement you accept every time you install a piece of PC software.

Can anyone else shed some light on this?

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Post #: 27
- 6/22/2003 10:41:23 PM   
Paratrooper

 

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I'll never buy a new release game or DVD movie again. All the ones I bought new were half the price just a few months later.

Good things come to those who wait, namely saving a few bucks. ;)

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Post #: 28
- 6/22/2003 10:48:04 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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I think part of the reason for "ya opened it ya keep it" where PC software is concerned, is simply, because most can open copy and or otherwise create a duplicate and return with no fear of being inconvenienced. And stores know this.

It is also why I can't see why console games are not all made on cartridge eh.
If it's on a cd, it can be copied (I happen to know this).

Actually, while it would be an intrusive pain, I can't think of why this is not done for even computer gaming software.
We already have "need cd in PC to run" games, so having "need cartridge in PC to run" is just putting in another form of media.

Yes there are "no cd" patches aplenty. But the usual lament is, "it's so my cd doesn't get damaged during use". A lament that would not be worth the time of day, if your game came made inside of a protected shell like a cartridge enjoys.

And for those thinking of saying "but the cost to make the cartridge would raise the price", give me a break. The cost to make a plastic shell, rates up there with the cost of a fast food drink.

Copywrite violation and software piracy at present, is easy because no one is thinking outside of the box for ways to prevent it.
I have never once ever seen a pirated copied cartridge console game.
I have seen pirated copied software on cd from every form of software to date on the other hand.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 29
- 6/22/2003 11:37:51 PM   
Maliki


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In my experience,around here,most console and PC game prices are comparable.An average console game costs between $44.99-$49.99 before tax.The average computer game is between $39.99-$49.99(or at least where i shop.)Though the same is true for the drop,as mentioned earlier, in prices'PC games tend to lower in their value faster and drop farther in price while even a used or older console title can still cost between $29.99-to almost full price several months later.

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