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Something to consider - 1/19/2019 1:51:53 AM

ernieschwitz

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From: Denmark
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I am a modder. That's just me. So I make a lot of scenarios and mods for different games. Of course I'd like people to play these scenarios and mods, and some are quite different from the original game.

So my question is here:
Why do so many people come to a game saying: I don't want to play a mod, just the game? This strikes me as especially strange with games that sell themselves as being very modable, or have modable spinoffs.

I guess what I am asking is:
Would you buy a game to play one of the excellent mods that may have been made of it? And if not, why?

In some cases playing these mods is sort of like playing a whole new game. You are getting it for "free" or rather in "addition" to the original game. It seems obvious to me, that this is a slam dunk win. So why doesn't it happen more?

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 2:20:35 AM

GaryChildress

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I've heard people say before that they don't want to play mods because they're afraid that the mod is not going to be as good or polished as the "out of box" game or will have bugs. However, that has been a very small minority in my experience. There are games with very strong modding communities and lots of people lining up to play the mods. In fact just about every great and noteworthy game that I know of has thrived due to its modding communities. The Civilization community, Panzer Corps and the War in the Pacific community come first to mind. I know you do some unbelievably great mods for Advanced Tactics, just don't let the naysayers get you down. You're also one of the more valuable gurus for the game and its modding community. I have greatly appreciated your help. Also loved playing the Civil War II mod.

< Message edited by GaryChildress -- 1/19/2019 2:23:22 AM >

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 2:27:02 AM

GaryChildress

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Just wish the Global Domination mod could be played single player! Hint, hint. (I don't do multiplayer games.) :)

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 2:44:09 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3220
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From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress
Just wish the Global Domination mod could be played single player! Hint, hint. (I don't do multiplayer games.) :)

I let Vic (the game designer and maker of Advanced Tactics Gold) look at the mod/game... and he said that it would be beyond the scopes of the AI to cope with all the special coding I made. Probably would take 1-2 years of intense coding to get it done to near any reasonable playability... and then there would be the issue of the AI not understanding completely how to make units that are viable.

I think it has reached the complexity that makes AIs very hard to make as well. WiF hasn't made an AI yet, and they've been out for some time, and I think they even promised to make one... While I am not saying Global Domination is comparable to WiF ... it is getting up there in complexity.

(in reply to GaryChildress)

Post #: 4

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 2:57:36 AM

bcgames

Posts: 1982
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: The Last Book Read
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I am a modder. That's just me. So I make a lot of scenarios and mods for different games. Of course I'd like people to play these scenarios and mods, and some are quite different from the original game.

So my question is here:
Why do so many people come to a game saying: I don't want to play a MOD, just the game? This strikes me as especially strange with games that sell themselves as being very modable, or have modable spinoffs.

I am a Modder as well...since 2001. In 2001, it was hard to mod and even harder for folks to play the mod given the importance of understanding the game directory. But players eagerly found a way to play MODs back then. What has changed? Twitter and...

1. Ability of The Players to converse with The Designer/Developers. Wargame Forums allow wargame players to immediately correspond with other players and the developers. This has become easier and easier--and more responsive with frequency of patches published.

2. Applying Mods is Hard. If it doesn't come with an install program, a MOD is work for the user. You have to back-up the original...so you can get back to original if you don't like the MOD. You have to find the folders in the game directory to put-in the mod files. This can be a challenge for some players.

3. MODs are "against" The Rules. From my experience, the game manual is the last thing written. It captures the game state at the time of game publication. And then there are patches...and MODs...and soon, the Game Manual doesn't mean as much as it once did. That introduces doubt...and movement BACK towards more "certain" ground. Either towards the base game--or towards a different game that's easier to understand and play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

I guess what I am asking is:
Would you buy a game to play one of the excellent mods that may have been made of it? And if not, why?

Depends on the Game and the MOD. If I don't like the game, the MOD needs to make the game better. If I like the game, the MOD needs to equal or enhance the existing game. And...it needs to be easy for me to apply the MOD.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ernieschwitz

In some cases playing these mods is sort of like playing a whole new game. You are getting it for "free" or rather in "addition" to the original game. It seems obvious to me, that this is a slam dunk win. So why doesn't it happen more?

See 'splains above. Help players overcome these impedimenta and perhaps your MOD will be embraced.

Bottomline: Keep on modding! Make it easier for others to enjoy your MOD!

< Message edited by bcgames -- 1/19/2019 2:58:09 AM >

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 3:01:29 AM

MrsWargamer

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I generally won't buy a game that lacks hot seat mode and is finite ie play through and it's done.

I consider a game very moddable, to be a bonus reason to buy. Now, I don't say I will like every mod. Some of the mod crowd are very good, and some are not.

I've seen some cases where a mod becomes the assumed best way to play a game.
Steel Panthers is likely still going strong on the strengths of the mod angle.

I personally like the efforts of those that do all the graphics creations. Often they are better. Game makers eventually run out of time resources whereas a modder is not under the same time pressures.

Sometimes the best part of a game is knowledge the mod crowd will be adding a long stream of scenario content. Most of my best loved games, have mounds of user made scenarios.

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Post #: 6

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 3:53:49 AM

bcgames

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Sometimes the best part of a game is knowledge the mod crowd will be adding a long stream of scenario content. Most of my best loved games, have mounds of user made scenarios.

Good point. If the game is good, the users/modders will create content/new scenarios. If it is not a good game--they won't.

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Post #: 7

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 5:14:03 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3220
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From: Denmark
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Actually, not considering giving up on making mods. I was more into thinking how to get more people to play them. :)

I think you've given me some ideas, all of you, so thanks :)

And thanks for the kind words GaryChildress.

(in reply to bcgames)

Post #: 8

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 9:27:28 AM

Rising-Sun

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From: Clifton Park, NY
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I believe that some like the vanilla rather than making it easier or harder. Some do this for achievement and of course there is none for this games unless they are on steam.

If the users is looking for specific add on or mods, then may or may not like it.

Also some doesn't want to take a chance and thinking it may crash or is it imcomplete.

Don't worry, I been there and done that. I am modder myself as well. For one thing, once you get your stuffs going, later on you may need to update it and that can take up more time of your.

There some projects I wouldn't mind doing, but for free is pain in the butt. Wish I was getting paid for this, or least some donation will be nice. So I hardly do any modding for any games. Except for Aliens Mod I did on Stellaris and vanilla Hearts of Iron II and AoD.

Btw, do what you like to do, that the only way you will enjoy doing and get credits for it. Don't worry about what they think of your work. Some will like it and dislike.

< Message edited by Rising-Sun -- 1/19/2019 9:30:15 AM >

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 1:49:35 PM

z1812

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From: Toronto Ontario
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A lot of people won't use mods as they worry that using/downloading/installing a mod will negatively affect their installation or carry a potential virus.

I know this because I have been playing PBEM games with people for years. At some point I have asked if they use mods and what I have mentioned above covers the concerns most players have expressed to me who do not use them.

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Post #: 10

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 3:09:16 PM

Veloz

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I wish a can play most of the mods that people makes; thanks for doing especially; what changes the map

I had played many mods of TOTAL-WAR series (most Medieval II)

But the problem is windows; you modders Know the game but know enough windows with his many actualizations and every mods needs pacth later on and has became a hard work to know windows which bill gates pretends to lock every new windows for modders

its bill gates the guilty person for modders not me

so i decided long time ago to stop playing and installing MODS and only play vanilla

but never found a virus in any mod; thanks for modding but windows is closed for this activity; i had windows 10 and better dont touch it with a mod which could change windows and affect others games thats way steam is selling matrix games (another enemy for modders (steam))

good job� anyway Modders

if i install windows 1985 wont be a problem

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Post #: 11

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 8:55:33 PM

Mobeer

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Generally I avoid mods. As generalisations:
- installing them is much too difficult
- they don't get updated for new builds of the game
- modders assume you must have all dlc\expansions etc
- they rarely work well with ai

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Post #: 12

RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 8:58:17 PM

sPzAbt. 502

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I only play some games because they have good mods.

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RE: Something to consider - 1/19/2019 9:25:11 PM

vonRocko

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I just play the games, I don't know what makes them run, so I rarely was able to get a mod installed. The only ones I ever succeeded with was Combat Mission.

If it doesn't have an installer program I'm lost.

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Post #: 14

RE: Something to consider - 1/20/2019 1:23:55 AM

Rosseau

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If a war or strategy game doesn't have an editor or at least text modding, I won't buy it. I'm not so interested in total conversion mods (and their installation) as the ability to tweak game stats and parameters on my own.

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Post #: 15

RE: Something to consider - 1/20/2019 6:37:51 AM

rico21

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If I want to play a mod, it's because I have already played enough with the original game, it implies that I love this game and I want to continue playing it. If I keep playing, that means I will not play other games, especially new games.
So, and this is the bottom of my mind, mods users are specialists and others are generalists.

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Post #: 16

RE: Something to consider - 1/20/2019 8:31:30 AM

Rising-Sun

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Well some of these mods usually correct some spelling and/or even improve realism.

So most of these mods will have details to read before you decide what to do. If you don't see any details about that mod, then don't use it.

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Post #: 17

RE: Something to consider - 1/21/2019 4:13:24 AM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3220
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From: Denmark
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I get where most of you are coming from, I think. Thanks for all the responses.

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Post #: 18

RE: Something to consider - 1/21/2019 4:31:28 AM

bcgames

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From: The Last Book Read
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Build it. Post it. See what happens. Theories are...until proven or proven otherwise. The MOD will tell the tale.

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