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Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 12:13:11 PM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline 		Hi
Is it possible that the bridges block the movement of AI units towards the objectives?
In my test scenario AI units do not cross the bridge; if I replace the bridge with clear terrain, then they move towards the target.
thanks





< Message edited by Angiel -- 1/15/2019 1:03:41 PM >

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Sorry for my bad English.
Post #: 1
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 5:13:51 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 1022
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		No the bridge will not block the path for the AI units. AI will move across the bridge. You need to have some good VP objectives nicely placed or AI Special "Attack Hex" Commands for the units.

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For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to Angiel)
Post #: 2
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 7:09:00 PM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks for the answer BUT the German units have AI Attitude = Advance and all are set "Attack x, y", BUT if there is a bridge they do not advance towards the target (Victory objective). What am I wrong?
Here is the scenario file with the bridge.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/fdu096330055d97/@@Pippolo_Arnhem_2.scn/file

_____________________________

Sorry for my bad English.

(in reply to Paullus)
Post #: 3
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 8:12:53 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 1022
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Angiel the scenario works fine. The units moved as they should across the bridge the very first turn.






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_____________________________

For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to Angiel)
Post #: 4
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 8:14:58 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 1022
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Test on Normal difficulty without Fog of War so you can see what is happening. Are you running the latest version of the game?

_____________________________

For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to Paullus)
Post #: 5
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/15/2019 11:23:59 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Just tested in v.1.1.20 at Very Hard level with no Fog of War and the German units moved exactly as they did in Paullus' test.




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Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Paullus)
Post #: 6
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/16/2019 6:04:37 AM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks all.
I solved the problem ..... using the original counters the game works, using the Mod JMass Small_markers or JMass_TotH_VASL, the Germans do not advance towards the objectives.

@ UP844 where can I find version v.1.1.20?

< Message edited by Angiel -- 1/16/2019 6:11:21 AM >

_____________________________

Sorry for my bad English.

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 7
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/16/2019 12:31:20 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Hello Angiel,

v.1.1.20 is available for download HERE.

I strongly doubt a graphics mod can affect unit behaviour. In the worst hypothesis, the terrain picture would not match the terrain type, but even this looks very unlikely, as bridges are road overlays.

What terrain type appears in the upper right corner if you place the cursor on the bridge hexes?
If you play with the Germans, can your units move through the bridge hexes?

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Angiel)
Post #: 8
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/16/2019 4:40:33 PM   
technikzauberer


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/13/2018
Status: offline 		UP844,

I have encountered 'graphics glitches' impacting unit movement behavior, yet, only in modified terrain sets. I had created some very heavily modified terrain sets to try out completely different looks, shading, and perhaps even have alternate terrain types in place of others [bearing in mind the TE] and have run into 'blocking issues' with some terrain types when I didn't have an exact edge match to original; particularly around water hexes.



(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 9
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/17/2019 2:21:42 PM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline 		Here is the last test:
--With original counter -> Germans to the south and north move
--With Mod Advanced Squad Leader mod Rev 1 -> Germans to the south and north move
--With the Mods JMass_TotH_VASL_mod_v1.1 and JMass-Small_markers_Terrain_Originale -> Germans to the south DO NOT move, those to the north, yes.
I can not understand why this happens.

For @ UP844
--What terrain type appears in the upper right corner if you place the cursor on the bridge hexes?
Bridge (with all mods)
--If you play with the Germans, can your units move through the bridge hexes?
Yes (with all mods)

_____________________________

Sorry for my bad English.

(in reply to technikzauberer)
Post #: 10
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/17/2019 3:34:51 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline
quote:


I can not understand why this happens.


Me too.

I never thought a graphics mod could interfere with the AI, but both your post and technikzauberer's previous one prove this could happen. I still cannot see how changing a graphic file can affect the AI .

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Angiel)
Post #: 11
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/17/2019 4:48:32 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2435
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline 		If a terrain mask and terrain sprite/block terrain don't match (alpha channel is not used properly - meaning transparency) then you will have unwanted LOS changes and this will affect AI behaviour

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 1/17/2019 8:04:21 PM >

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 12
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/17/2019 5:55:35 PM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

If a terrain mask and terrain sprite/block terrain don't match (alpha channel is not used properly - meaning transparency) that you will have unwanted LOS changes and this will affect AI behaviour


It must be just like that.
Thanks for the reply.

_____________________________

Sorry for my bad English.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 13
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/17/2019 11:12:37 PM   
technikzauberer


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/13/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

If a terrain mask and terrain sprite/block terrain don't match (alpha channel is not used properly - meaning transparency) then you will have unwanted LOS changes and this will affect AI behaviour


Thanks Peter, explains it perfectly! [now to check on some terrain files...]

I'm so enjoying your labor of love!

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 14
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/18/2019 2:45:52 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		I complained about several aspects of the AI behaviour , but I never noticed it not moving because it had no LOS to a VP hex .

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to technikzauberer)
Post #: 15
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/18/2019 3:40:55 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2435
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UP844

I complained about several aspects of the AI behaviour , but I never noticed it not moving because it had no LOS to a VP hex .


AI doesn't need LOS to a VP, in order to move towards it.

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 16
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/18/2019 3:49:49 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla
AI doesn't need LOS to a VP, in order to move towards it.


That's what I thought (and observed in game) and is the reason I don't understand this statement:

quote:

If a terrain mask and terrain sprite/block terrain don't match (alpha channel is not used properly - meaning transparency) then you will have unwanted LOS changes and this will affect AI behaviour


If the AI does not need a LOS to move towards a VP, how can unwanted LOS changes affect its behaviour?

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 17
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/18/2019 5:47:47 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2435
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UP844

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla
AI doesn't need LOS to a VP, in order to move towards it.


That's what I thought (and observed in game) and is the reason I don't understand this statement:

quote:

If a terrain mask and terrain sprite/block terrain don't match (alpha channel is not used properly - meaning transparency) then you will have unwanted LOS changes and this will affect AI behaviour


If the AI does not need a LOS to move towards a VP, how can unwanted LOS changes affect its behaviour?


If AI units are moving towards an objective (regardless if the VPO is in LOS or not) and no human units are in LOS, then AI moves differently than when human units are in LOS (in which case AI might consider engaging some/all human units.

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 18
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/18/2019 7:28:35 PM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		I am aware of this. The only British units in the scenario, however, are the ones shown in the screenshot attached to the initial post. Since they are much farther away than the VP hexes, I doubt the AI takes them into consideration. Moreover, it would have to close with them to come into range (and to cross the river, unless it intends to fire at the southernmost British stack from the south bank). In any case, the units on the south bank should have to move, but - as Angiel reported - they remain stationary.

I was thinking about the possibility that the bridge overlay has a wrong alpha channel - in the sole graphic mod that causes problems - not matching the road.

The two bridge hexes are oriented from SW to NE (/). If the alpha channel is oriented in any other different way, i.e. SE to NW (\), or E to W (-) the two hexes are not connected and so the units on the south bank have no path to reach the VP hexes. As a consequence, they won't move.

@Angiel:

Can you check - in Photoshop or in a similar graphics software - if the alpha channel in the mod causing the issue? Do other bridge hexes cause similar problems?

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 19
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/19/2019 12:33:02 AM   
technikzauberer


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/13/2018
Status: offline 		I was thinking of checking it out... but out of all the terrain mods out there, [I must be brain dead from all the cold meds] which ones are JMass_TotH_VASL_mod_v1.1 and JMass-Small_markers_Terrain_Originale?

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 20
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/19/2019 2:51:08 AM   
Angiel


Posts: 105
Joined: 10/31/2006
From: Toscana Italy
Status: offline 		@ UP8444
I checked, the bridge's alpha channel has no problems.
BUT I replaced a part of the JMass Mod terrain with a part of original terrain and the south units move.





@technikzauberer
JMass Small_markers_mod_v1.1:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/9pfpq9ppcmcx55b/JMass_Small_markers_mod_v1.1.zip/file


< Message edited by Angiel -- 1/19/2019 9:12:37 AM >

_____________________________

Sorry for my bad English.

(in reply to technikzauberer)
Post #: 21
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/19/2019 11:29:29 AM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		That's a step forward: at least now we have a rough idea of where the cause lies.

I have tried copying the default terrain as a second layer over the JMS terrain. The upper portion of the JMS terrain (the one you replaced) appears to be shifted upwards by a single pixel, even though this is the only difference I manage to detect (I might have missed something else).

In the image below I have set the transparency of the default terrain to 30% and the two images clearly do not match.

I have no clear idea as to why this affects the AI behaviour: my best guess is that the shift makes the road not- functional and so the river hexes remain impassable. You could test this by moving a unit along a road and by checking if it gains the +1 hex bonus.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to Angiel)
Post #: 22
RE: Bridges and AI - 1/19/2019 11:36:03 AM   
UP844


Posts: 1519
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, the PSD file is too large to be attached here (25 MB), even in ZIP format (15 MB).

_____________________________

Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP

(in reply to UP844)
Post #: 23
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