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Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 3:25:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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Dave (Fabertong) and I started a match yesterday. I haven't run Turn 1 yet, but here are some foundational things:

1. Stock Scenario 2. I recall playing this against Miller many years ago. My memory is that Japan gets four more infantry divisions, some more destroyers, and some kind of bump in supply. That's about all I remember, and that may be inaccurate.
2. If I'm right, that means no additional cruisers, BBs or carriers. That's important, to my way of thinking.
3. PDU On. That means a never-ending air war, from my blighted, embittered perspective.
4. Withdrawals Off. A welcome reprieve from having to keep track of that and having to relearn, for the 17th time, that I can't withdraw S-Class subs from Pearl Harbor.
5. All settings were Dave's suggestions.
6. No House Rules were discussed other than opening day - I was able to move China units and Force Z. I wasn't sure whether the Force Z idea also applied to American TFs already in existence, such as CA Houston, so I didn't give them orders.
7. We'll discuss other house rules as they come up, I suppose. I'll self-impose the standard "PP to cross political borders," though I'll request an exception for India-theater units moving into Upper Assam, such as the Akyab region.

As for the title, I'm starting this match with the idea of focusing on information - receiving it, evaluating it, and acting on it. That's probably the most fun part of the game, to me. I begin the game with little info, hence the title of this AAR. The Wal-Mart on Ice version is my tribute to the complexity of this game. Playing AE is like a visit to Wal-Mart on busy Saturday afternoon, logarithemically increased.

Edited to Add House Rule Notes (as of 12/09/18)
1. The first-day rules have already expired (only units in China could move, plus Force Z).
2. The usual rule requiring PPs to move units across borders (standard exceptions for Thai units moving in neighboring countries and Indian-theater troops moving into Assam as far as Akyab).






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/10/2018 2:18:34 AM >
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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 3:48:34 PM   
Lovejoy


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Looking forward to this! Good luck!

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 4:26:08 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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I am no expert in the Stock #1 vs. #2 differences, but I've played them both in PBEM. I believe Japan gets a LOT of breathing room on economic resources in #2, especially in starting petroleum. Thus taking the major oil centers can wait longer in #2. And that has ramifications on where those "released" LCUs can venture.

No withdrawals is a very big boon for the Allies, especially in the area of the RN surface navy. It's rare to see a PBEM with this setting.

After several experiences I personally have altered my previous 100% opposition to HRs, and think it's probably necessary to have the PPs-to-cross one in place. Not so much for what the Allies can move out of India, but rather to hold back the massive (and I mean massive) numbers of IJA LCUs that can move out of Manchuria without triggering the Soviets. Mostly arty, but not only that. With those dozens of LCUs China is toast in the hands of a good Japan player, and there isn't enough in China, Burma, or India for two years to do much about it. Once China is disposed of you're going to have those dozens of sky-high EXP LCUs in Burma, in jungle, and that's that for that theater.

I would have to check: Sapporo, from memory, has a very different industrial base in the two. In #2 I think it's got a lot of vital aircraft industry that is elsewhere in #1. You should check that for long-term planning reasons.

_____________________________

The Moose

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 4:30:34 PM   
Canoerebel


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Thanks, Moose.

I'll check with Dave to see if the standard PP is in effect. I would assume it is. It's just about universal.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 4:41:45 PM   
Canoerebel


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The first turn has been run. I'll post in more depth later, but the strike on the Pearl Harbor was strong - one BB sunk and all suffered heavy to very heavy damage. There wasn't a Manila strike, and a Mini KB strike group missed a shot at naked CA Houston. More later.

I've just sat down and begun looking at the map for December 8, entering orders. This is the first time since 2012, so it's a bit overwhelming and click-wearying. I'm putting off the dreaded job of entering orders for ships in the South China Sea region as long as possible. Everything else gets attention first.

The first orders of substance given to the Western Allies was to swap out the fighter squadron commanders at Pearl - a bunch of dogs. The risk of a second-day strike is elevated, given the amount of BB damage, so the fighter corps may be called on for important duty. The Allies start with 150 PP and about 130 were expended just changing Pearl's fighter commanders. That doesn't leave much for the next priority - quality commanders for any ships or TFs going in harm's way (it's likely the Pearl fleet will try for an intercept).

A small oddity - the Allies open with a PBY squadron at Kodiak and a base force at Dutch Harbor, which is a much more attractive place to base the patrols. Only the base force has no aviation support. "Replacements On."

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 5:14:12 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/10/41

Singapore: A singular squadron commander. I've just begun issuing orders to units across the map. After the wholesale changes in fighter squadron commanders at Pearl Harbor, I have 9 PP left. A few of those will be used on this guy.




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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 6:18:21 PM   
Orm


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Seems like a splendid guy to have on the ground. Perhaps inspecting things...

_____________________________

Intend attacking at dawn high water.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 7:53:06 PM   
pws1225

 

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I believe Japan also gets an extra Zero air group or two. Same with Betties.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:05:55 PM   
Canoerebel


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Since this is Stock 2, I don't think the upgraded AA applies. Actually, I'm not sure about that - are the AA upgrades via patch rather than mod? If so, I guess it does apply. I much prefer the realistic AA.

There are no stacking limits. I much prefer stacking limits, but can tolerate the game wihtout them (my game with Obvert doesn't have them, either).



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/8/2018 8:06:05 PM >

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:05:56 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Seems like a splendid guy to have on the ground. Perhaps inspecting things...

A relative of Blackadder, no doubt.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:16:31 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/7/45

Intellectus Ex Nihilo: Not much helpful info in the opening SigInt report. The fate of the Allies depends on how adept I am at finding, compiling, and analyzing information from this point forward.

It's a lot of fun.




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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:20:41 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/7/41

Pearl Harbor: Dave deployed a decent number of aircraft against Pearl's airfield, with some success.

If I was a Japanese player beginning my first game, I don't think I'd allocate any bombers for airfield strike. I'd prefer to maximize the chances of hitting ships. The only exception, I suppose, would be fighters. Since Allied CAP is meager, the Japanese player can certaintly afford Zero airfield strikes. He did this somehwere else, too - I think Manila or somesuch.







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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:23:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/7/45

Pearl Harbor: Quite a strike against Allied ships. The problem is that only one (Arizona) went under. I think Dave will be tempted to strike again tomorrow to finish off a few more, hence the effort I made to maximize Allied CAP by improving fighter squadron commander ratings.

If Dave doesn't strike again - if this is the extent of the damage - I'll take it. I don't mind how long the ships are in yards, as long as they're still in the Allied OOB.






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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:30:57 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/7/45

Pearl Harbor: Force dispositions and plans for tomorrow.




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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 8:36:20 PM   
Canoerebel


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12/7/45

South China Sea: Nothing unusual in this theater on the opening day of the war.




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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 9:16:07 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I am no expert in the Stock #1 vs. #2 differences, but I've played them both in PBEM. I believe Japan gets a LOT of breathing room on economic resources in #2, especially in starting petroleum. Thus taking the major oil centers can wait longer in #2. And that has ramifications on where those "released" LCUs can venture.

No withdrawals is a very big boon for the Allies, especially in the area of the RN surface navy. It's rare to see a PBEM with this setting.

After several experiences I personally have altered my previous 100% opposition to HRs, and think it's probably necessary to have the PPs-to-cross one in place. Not so much for what the Allies can move out of India, but rather to hold back the massive (and I mean massive) numbers of IJA LCUs that can move out of Manchuria without triggering the Soviets. Mostly arty, but not only that. With those dozens of LCUs China is toast in the hands of a good Japan player, and there isn't enough in China, Burma, or India for two years to do much about it. Once China is disposed of you're going to have those dozens of sky-high EXP LCUs in Burma, in jungle, and that's that for that theater.

I would have to check: Sapporo, from memory, has a very different industrial base in the two. In #2 I think it's got a lot of vital aircraft industry that is elsewhere in #1. You should check that for long-term planning reasons.


I think I'm coming around to your way of thinking. The dynamic of the land war in Asia is changed dramatically when China falls (and it will fall to a diligent Japanese player), so the smart move is to run the Chinese Army to India where there's a shortage of troops but oodles of supply. Then you've the Manchurian Army and the KMT troops clashing in the jungles of Burma.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 10:49:23 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
I think I'm coming around to your way of thinking. The dynamic of the land war in Asia is changed dramatically when China falls (and it will fall to a diligent Japanese player), so the smart move is to run the Chinese Army to India where there's a shortage of troops but oodles of supply. Then you've the Manchurian Army and the KMT troops clashing in the jungles of Burma.

Chinese repair very fast with supplies and Indian support units concentrated in good bases. You can have 900 AV Corps marching in late summer 42. With terrain def advantage even technologically superior Japs will be stalled hopelessly in anything other than clear terrain. I'd say that no-pp-for-borders would benefit the Allies more. With half Chinese army running away to feast in India while other half performs the usual holding action who cares about Chungking reviving. Chinese squads will be produced anyway

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 11:54:33 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

_____________________________

The Moose

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/8/2018 11:58:36 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Since this is Stock 2, I don't think the upgraded AA applies. Actually, I'm not sure about that - are the AA upgrades via patch rather than mod? If so, I guess it does apply. I much prefer the realistic AA.




The AA and fix to Super-Es is in a patch Andy Mac provided. I don't think it was put in the last official patch. In my last two PBEMs we patched before the first turn, but I think you can hot-patch after. I'd ask around though.

The patch link is in this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064&mpage=1&key=unofficial

_____________________________

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 12:26:28 AM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.


I wish I had, I botched my half-baked attempt at it and will likely spend the rest of the war fighting off hordes of Chinese units, except with supply.

To be honest, the KMT units in India is good not for the Chinese units themselves, but because they can garrison India. That's a lot of units freed up, and if you disband the lot then you've a solid pool for the device scarce British.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 1:58:55 AM   
ushakov

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/7/45

Congrats on the fastest game yet played - flipping all those turns must have kept you both very busy today!

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 2:13:09 AM   
Bif1961


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Congrats on your new game.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 9:59:43 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

Every 300 AV Corps carries 600 AV potential from the start without any need for pools, just some lengthy R&R. That's one good step towards rebuilding.
And you would need to cut eastern Indian RRs and isolate the Ledo region to catch the Chinese, they do not need any other RRs to march to India. That means early invasion into Calcutta region. Risky if you are a day short and the first Corps marches into 4x Calcutta hex. Note that I assume only the nearest Chinese running away (up to Changsha-Ichang cluster), others would fight.
Bottomline - it is not "pretty easy" for Japan

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 1:03:06 PM   
zuluhour


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I really think you would like Georges' very helpful APP for sorting Signet and record keeping...........

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 1:05:52 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



Last night, I gave some thought to how in the world I'd approach another AAR. Readers have seen the game start months 11 million times, so I don't think I'd simply present a straightforward re-hash of major things going on. But I haven't hit on a good alternative. Maybe I'll write in poetry form. I'm sure Forumites would find that scintillating, gripping, moving reading.


In Heroic Hexameter?

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 12/9/2018 1:06:13 PM >

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 3:58:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
You don't have device pools to rebuild the Chinese army by mid-1942. They also take a couple of months to get to India. If Japan notices the bug-out they can pretty easily cut the RRs with tanks and paras. Ask Lokasenna how.

Every 300 AV Corps carries 600 AV potential from the start without any need for pools, just some lengthy R&R. That's one good step towards rebuilding.
And you would need to cut eastern Indian RRs and isolate the Ledo region to catch the Chinese, they do not need any other RRs to march to India. That means early invasion into Calcutta region. Risky if you are a day short and the first Corps marches into 4x Calcutta hex. Note that I assume only the nearest Chinese running away (up to Changsha-Ichang cluster), others would fight.
Bottomline - it is not "pretty easy" for Japan


If you move the goalposts to "evacuate those Chinese LCUs close to the western border" then yeah, it's hard for Japan to stop them. Most of the Chinese army is not there, however. It's around Changsha, on the coast to the SE, around Sian and east of there, at Chungking, etc. Those evacuations need railroads. I successfully evacuated much of the Chinese force in my AARed game with One Eyed Jacks, and was utterly crushed trying to do the same thing by Lokasenna.

As for devices, yes, if you get the unit to India in pristine form the disabled devices can be healed. Not really by mid-1942 in my experience (I have some in major supply centers in India in February 1943 that are not all healed), but over time they get better. If they were in combat, however, they need to access the 350 squads per month Chinese pools, and they don't serve to heal a battered LCU list in 1942, or even much of 1943.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 12/9/2018 3:59:11 PM >


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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 4:10:47 PM   
Canoerebel


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What I've seen of massed withdrawals of the Chinese to India leads me to believe that the Moose is right. Against a capable and experienced opponent, I don't think it works.

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 5:42:11 PM   
obvert


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Good to see you found a game Dan. I'll look forward to seeing how th planning in this one goes.

One thing I'd advocate is a strong early challenge in the DEI. Especially if your opponent spends a lot of resources (and keeps the KB) in the Pacific. A lot of the cruisers and the CVs can get to the Dei quickly.

The danger in Scen 2 is the follow on from the DEI before the amphibious bonus runs out. Japan gets more planes, deeper pools, and a few more troops, so can steamroll quickly without a few surprises coming their way.

Good luck!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 6:06:14 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I am no expert in the Stock #1 vs. #2 differences, but I've played them both in PBEM. I believe Japan gets a LOT of breathing room on economic resources in #2, especially in starting petroleum. Thus taking the major oil centers can wait longer in #2. And that has ramifications on where those "released" LCUs can venture.

No withdrawals is a very big boon for the Allies, especially in the area of the RN surface navy. It's rare to see a PBEM with this setting.

After several experiences I personally have altered my previous 100% opposition to HRs, and think it's probably necessary to have the PPs-to-cross one in place. Not so much for what the Allies can move out of India, but rather to hold back the massive (and I mean massive) numbers of IJA LCUs that can move out of Manchuria without triggering the Soviets. Mostly arty, but not only that. With those dozens of LCUs China is toast in the hands of a good Japan player, and there isn't enough in China, Burma, or India for two years to do much about it. Once China is disposed of you're going to have those dozens of sky-high EXP LCUs in Burma, in jungle, and that's that for that theater.

I would have to check: Sapporo, from memory, has a very different industrial base in the two. In #2 I think it's got a lot of vital aircraft industry that is elsewhere in #1. You should check that for long-term planning reasons.


I don't think the resources differences are that heavy.

RE: China - it's a choice between bad options, but if those units don't see combat in China then they won't have sky-high XP.

Sapporo has additional factories, yes. So does Harbin (IIRC). There are some other additional engine/aircraft factories scattered around the islands as well.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 29
RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) - 12/9/2018 6:08:51 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Since this is Stock 2, I don't think the upgraded AA applies. Actually, I'm not sure about that - are the AA upgrades via patch rather than mod? If so, I guess it does apply. I much prefer the realistic AA.

There are no stacking limits. I much prefer stacking limits, but can tolerate the game wihtout them (my game with Obvert doesn't have them, either).




You can get the Andy-updated scenario files. I highly recommend doing so, especially as the Allies. Basically everything in it is a benefit to the Allies, and on balance it is a huge boon. IJN shipboard flak does also improve, but not as much as the Allied flak and there are also the super-E changes.

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