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Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/4/2018 4:36:48 AM   
exsonic01

 

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From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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Just wish to check what tiles should I need to choose. Please share your opinion about those pics.


This is 1 paved tile line + 1 dirt road tile line + field 1/2 or plowed field.


1 paved tile line + multiple dirt road network + small town + field 1/2 or plowed field. But here is the one concern: What tile should I need to choose to paint rice paddy field? Rice paddy field is unique, it is like a field but full of mud and watery field during summer, it actually not a good ground for tracked vehicle to maneuver when it is watered. But during winter, field become hard enough for tanks to maneuver. Any opinion about paddy field?

Now, I'm also curious how can I express those geometry from AB

AA site


Bunker (possible tunnel network) - trench network


Trench

North Korea has A LOT of them. Those defensive structures would induce a good cover to defender. What should I need to choose for those structures?

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 12/4/2018 4:54:34 AM >
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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/4/2018 12:26:51 PM   
22sec

 

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From: Jackson, MS
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I would do bog for rice patties. Maybe we could get rice paddies eventually added.

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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 12:02:22 PM   
mekanopsis

 

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Trying to do a Middle Eastern urban map as per the Grozny method above (specifically: Khorramshahr, 1981) I discovered immediately that modders are going to have to start adding *lots* of new terrain graphics. Fortunately we've got 24 bit pixels to encode them so that's a lot of scope to add new kinds of tiles, and it doesn't look to be much harder than adding new sprites.

(in reply to 22sec)
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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 8:11:04 PM   
CCIP-subsim


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On that note - I haven't really looked into it, but is it possible to create new tile types right now?
If so, I might actually need to look into it (there are a few that are sorely needed for my purposes)

As for the original question - I see a lot of plowed fields there! I'd be careful as the time of year can really change the look of a terrain area. One thing that's handy for checking it is Google Earth - you can use it to look back through the history of satellite imagery for any given area, which is great if you want to get an idea of how a particular spot might look like in different seasons. With fields, it's often worth varying them (it just looks better, IMO).

I would agree with using bog for rice paddies right now, and it might be a good one to use on some of the areas in that map that look like terrain that was purposely made difficult to pass.

For things like AT ditches, trench lines, and other barriers - I recommend the tree line and stream (with trees) tiles for the right effect. I've been using those for a whole range of features on my Chechnya maps, including fences, dikes, and farm enclosures.

(in reply to mekanopsis)
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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 8:32:13 PM   
exsonic01

 

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From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 22sec
I would do bog for rice patties. Maybe we could get rice paddies eventually added.

I was considering the same, but rice paddy has one clear difference from bog. Rice paddy is usually watered typically from May to August only, and for other seasons they are not. This means that rice paddy terrain should have low vehicle transferability only from May to August, while it is hard enough for vehicle maneuvering during other time frame. Is this possible to include a tile of 'variable' property? I guess not. For now, I'm just using field 1, 2, and 3.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mekanopsis
Trying to do a Middle Eastern urban map as per the Grozny method above (specifically: Khorramshahr, 1981) I discovered immediately that modders are going to have to start adding *lots* of new terrain graphics. Fortunately we've got 24 bit pixels to encode them so that's a lot of scope to add new kinds of tiles, and it doesn't look to be much harder than adding new sprites.

Iran Iraq war mode? That will be interesting!! Anyway, does the game system allow us to include more tile types? Can we include the more palette colors?

quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIP-subsim
On that note - I haven't really looked into it, but is it possible to create new tile types right now?
If so, I might actually need to look into it (there are a few that are sorely needed for my purposes)

As for the original question - I see a lot of plowed fields there! I'd be careful as the time of year can really change the look of a terrain area. One thing that's handy for checking it is Google Earth - you can use it to look back through the history of satellite imagery for any given area, which is great if you want to get an idea of how a particular spot might look like in different seasons. With fields, it's often worth varying them (it just looks better, IMO).

I would agree with using bog for rice paddies right now, and it might be a good one to use on some of the areas in that map that look like terrain that was purposely made difficult to pass.

For things like AT ditches, trench lines, and other barriers - I recommend the tree line and stream (with trees) tiles for the right effect. I've been using those for a whole range of features on my Chechnya maps, including fences, dikes, and farm enclosures.

It would be great if we can include new tile type and palette color, but I'm not sure about that.

Those empty fields are mix of rice paddy field and other farm field. I already checked the google earth past for corresponding zone, but past maps from GE have too low resolution, it is not helpful at all. Those pictures came from Google map, and I think they took this picture during winter (or at least after harvest season), that is why all those fields looks empty or plowed. I guess things will be very different during other seasons. So, I'm just mixing field 1, 2, and 3 for now. I agree, mixing them looks much better than relying on 1 tile type.

Like I mentioned above, property of rice paddy is very seasonal. But bog tile in this game have uniform property regardless of season as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) So I'm not sure using bog would be a proper choice for rice paddy or not. But I may change some part of field 1 or 2 or 3 to bogs in the future.

Regarding defensive structures, I wish AB include them as a new tile type. But dirt road with tree or stream with tree would be close I guess. Thanks.



< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 12/6/2018 8:38:23 PM >

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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 9:00:12 PM   
CCIP-subsim


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Interestingly, while digging through the files, I've found terrain types that aren't used (at least have not been used in terrain.bmp files that I've used in compiling my pallette):

-fence
-tall grass
-rough (at least not used outside of being automatically applied to hills)
-soft (sand)
-vineyard

It appears that the map sprites are defined in the resources.xml file (the one in data/graphics/) and matched to terrain.bmp colours by the mapcolors1/2.xml files in the same folder. What I've not yet found, however, is the definitions for the passability/cover of that terrain.


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Post #: 6
RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 9:21:21 PM   
22sec

 

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From: Jackson, MS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIP-subsim

Interestingly, while digging through the files, I've found terrain types that aren't used (at least have not been used in terrain.bmp files that I've used in compiling my pallette):

-fence
-tall grass
-rough (at least not used outside of being automatically applied to hills)
-soft (sand)
-vineyard

It appears that the map sprites are defined in the resources.xml file (the one in data/graphics/) and matched to terrain.bmp colours by the mapcolors1/2.xml files in the same folder. What I've not yet found, however, is the definitions for the passability/cover of that terrain.




I use rough and soft for quarries.

The terrain characteristics such as cover are currently hard coded.


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RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/6/2018 9:31:06 PM   
CCIP-subsim


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Yes, I just came to that conclusion after digging. Still, the fact that there's a couple of terrain types that I haven't even used is handy And since we do have multiple possible themes (4 seasons plus jungle, desert and barren), it also leaves a good bit of flexibility for creating mods to favour/flavour particular theaters. I may actually change up some of the tiles a bit (I am really tempted to, for example, use the plowed fields texture more as a general dirt texture, and the passability on it is about right as it is.
Vineyards may also be a good candidate tile for rice paddies, though bog is probably better - and you it would be pretty easy to change up their textures a bit to match the overall feel.

(in reply to 22sec)
Post #: 8
RE: Question about geometry expression & tile choice - 12/9/2018 8:52:01 PM   
Veitikka


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Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CCIP-subsim

-fence
-tall grass
-rough (at least not used outside of being automatically applied to hills)
-soft (sand)
-vineyard


The fence is used in the German border. It can be good where there are permanent defensive structures, and perhaps heavy buildings as bunkers.


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