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RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 11:11:32 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 15138
Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

So then AGE engine games not created by AGEOD, you would consider mods? There's also those two Hearts of Iron games Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, all sold as new games. The Hearts of Iron games may be a weak example as i believe those were marketed as expanded Hearts of Iron games. Again there are plenty of Dev teams that license other companies engines and expand those engines and release those products as new games. Using other people's engines is what is done these days it seems. It's what Slitherine/Matrix does, Archon their new engine is being used by multiple dev teams altered and changed and added to for whatever game there making. I just don't see the difference to what is being done on these games. All those dev teams using other people's engines surely cant be all mods, can they


I do believe you hit the nail in the head there, budd. There's rarely any computer games out there that isn't base on some available game engine, which is used to construct new games with new context. The M/S Archon engine is a good example, too.

Campaign Series of the old was a living codebase rather than a game engine, come to think of it.

Talonsoft's East Front (1997) was the first one out, game a bit rushed it seems, but proved to be quite popular still. The codebase saw some evolution and the next game compiled from that codebase (and the accompanying data and graphics) was West Front (1998). That codebase was put aside for maintenance purposes, new coding was done, and East Front II (1999) saw daylight. Again, at that time a baseline of the code was put aside for maintenance, work continued on the codebase, and Rising Sun saw day light in 2000. Three WW2 games quite similar, but to have an update to them all, three different codesets needed to be tweaked and compiled and released. Then, some new coding, new capabilities, and Divided Ground came out in 2001. Four games, four different code bases.

Matrix Games's John Tiller's Campaign Series in 2007 was basically a "Gold" set of all three WW2 games, compiled to new operating system with an then up to date MS VC++ development environment. It saw some minor code tweaks as well, during the JTCS v 1.x era, up to JTCS 1.04 (for all three games).

What we've done very systematically instead, from the beginning, was to get rid of the "living code base", as it is not the way to do things anymore, and to create a true game engine instead. From JTCS 2.0 on we had that for the first time: just one engine, and one code set to keep up to date, with flags and buttons to construct any of the three WW2 era games. It was a bold attempt, but one in that we as a team succeeded.

With that as a starting point, we then set our roadmap to enhance all aspects of the game. A plan to remodel the graphics engine. A plan to remodel the data. A plan to support all Campaign Series games going forward.

From game engine point of view, we decided to actually have two Campaign Series game engines: "WW2 Engine" and "Modern Engine".

CS Middle East 1.0 was the first game out with the Modern CS engine. There's not a single code line from Divided Ground, it is all based on the improved WW2 Engine of the JTCS 2.x family, but with ties cut to CS of the old. No longer compatible.

Modern CS Engine is and continues to be evolving as we continue with the Modern set of games and with their DLCs to come: Middle East, Vietnam, and Cold War. As the Modern CS engine gets a newer version, older games will have a free update to move to this latest level. Also, the game editors continue to be available so that community can continue to develop their own scenarios while at it.

CS East Front 1939-1941 will be the first game out with the new WW2 CS game engine. Similar story here: East Front, West Front, Pacific Front, with the WW2 CS Engine similarly evolving and being made available to those owning an earlier game.

We could have just kept churning new games with the codebase, leaving any new game to become obsolete in a few years. Instead we decided to take the long road, and to first create the game engine, and then to use the engine to construct the new game (plus the DLC approach and keeping the older games updated to latest game engine version).

We're already seeing the benefits of this. While CS Vietnam is being developed, our automated CS team development environment, with a push of a button, creates a new BETA of the Vietnam game, but at the same time also builds the latest BETA of the to-be-updated Middle East game. Not only that, it builds a new Cold War ALPHA as well, with not much (not any) game content / scenarios there, but the latest graphics are there, the Modern set of country OOBs are there, and all the editors are there to support any development once the call to arms is made. It's pretty cool.

Also, at the same time, an ALPHA for the East Front is build, using the WW2 Game Engine flags and options. There's already five countries there (German Reich, Poland, Soviet Union, Hungary, and Finland), and the first scenario versions are already there. That said, most work is done with creating new maps at the moment, but hey-ho, that's allright as the release date for EF is not until 2020.

This all takes some time. But also, it's pretty cool to see this long term plan coming alive now

_____________________________

Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
---
CS: Vietnam | CS: East Front 1939-1941 IN-THE-WORKS
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 Fully reimaged v2.0 available now!

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Post #: 91
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 11:37:40 AM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1036
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, OH
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads


quote:

ORIGINAL: XLVIIIPzKorp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Well that was a fun walk in the memory lane, with the early Talonsoft releases. I had totally forgotten that the first Battelground game was not Gettysburg, but the Battle of Ardennes / Bulge instead!







What a great little game that was for it's time. A Campaign Series Grandparent.

I still have a copy running on my machine for when I'm feeling nostalgic.




Have you played it for a while, do you recall how the phases work out within a players turn there? And what were those phases?

Edit: referring to Phase menu item seen in the screenshot above



You bet that was a fun walk through memory lane Crossroads!

I think I have that disk around here somewhere. But it probably won't work on my newer machine.


_____________________________

Blitz call sign Ivan the Big.

(in reply to Crossroads)
Post #: 92
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 11:48:32 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 15138
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline
Ha. We're so ancient. But never extinct!

_____________________________

Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
---
CS: Vietnam | CS: East Front 1939-1941 IN-THE-WORKS
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 Fully reimaged v2.0 available now!

(in reply to Big Ivan)
Post #: 93
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 12:31:10 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2312
Joined: 2/20/2008
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I love these games, going to home depot to get material for a pic dice tower. An example

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/7xlxiy/i_made_a_dice_tower_out_of_pvc_pipes/

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Post #: 94
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 3:03:38 PM   
budd


Posts: 2653
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans

quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

So then AGE engine games not created by AGEOD, you would consider mods? There's also those two Hearts of Iron games Darkest Hour and Arsenal of Democracy, all sold as new games. The Hearts of Iron games may be a weak example as i believe those were marketed as expanded Hearts of Iron games. Again there are plenty of Dev teams that license other companies engines and expand those engines and release those products as new games. Using other people's engines is what is done these days it seems. It's what Slitherine/Matrix does, Archon their new engine is being used by multiple dev teams altered and changed and added to for whatever game there making. I just don't see the difference to what is being done on these games. All those dev teams using other people's engines surely cant be all mods, can they

The Ageod engine games are new games that just used the Ageod engine. They didn't take an actual Ageod game and rework it into something else. They started with the engine and worked from the ground up. In other words they didn't take Civil War II and try to turn it into something else. How can you not see the difference? Anybody can do what's being done with the Campaign Series. There was a Vietnam mod for CS 10 or 15 years ago. There's also a World War I mod too.

As for the Hearts of Iron games -Darkest Hour & Arsenal of Democracy- I believe that they should be considered mods. They took the base Hearts of Iron 2 game as a start and added to it. That doesn't make them brand new games though. Just different iterations of Hearts of Iron 2. One of the best mods out for Crusader Kings II is the Game of Thrones mod. That turned Crusader Kings II into Game of Thrones. They did it by modding data, some graphics and creating scenarios. I'm not sure if they changed code though. They didn't claim it was a brand new game though. Using other peoples engines to create something new and original is fine. Adding on to other people's work and ideas then claiming you created something new and original isn't.

Not once have I ever said that the enhancements they're making to the series is a bad thing. In fact I think it's good. I love what they did with CS Middle East. Let's not kid ourselves though. CS Middle East would not be possible without Divided Ground coming first. CS Vietnam and all the other planned versions of games wouldn't be possible without the older versions existing. What Jason explained to me in a previous post about how they're changing code, graphics and data plus adding new scenarios is exactly what modding is. They aren't just using the game engine. They're using the current existing games as a foundation to add on to. In other words whatever comes isn't really groundbreaking, new or original.

As I said Jason's explanation of what they're doing is no different than modding. Look at some of the mods that have been created for games. Some mods change everything from graphics to code. They call those mods overhauls. They still aren't considered brand new games. They still need the base game to work. I just don't understand how anybody can take somebody else's work or ideas and add to it then claim that they've created something brand new. CS Vietnam will be a new theater for the Campaign Series with some new enhancements and features. It will (hopefully) still be a Campaign Series game though. Tiller created the game systems for the Campaign Series. Each game in the series pretty much plays the same way. So how can anybody claim they've made a new game using his systems and ideas?


My point is i don't see the difference.It seems to me your parsing the terms game/engine to fit your discussion points. Honestly you must see how your statement I've highlighted above fits a whole bunch of games released as new games that would span across genres of games.I think my AGEOD example fits your criteria perfectly. From what i can see Berto is doing exactly what Tiller is doing for the series he has taken over programming for, and they have stated that most of the legacy code is removed. Using your new house analogy, if you tear a house down to the studs and rebuild, is that a new house? does that differ from just slapping paint on the house and calling it new?

I think i'll leave the discussion here, i'll read your reply and leave it at that. It seems we're heading for a useless circle, restating our discussion points. Appreciate the discussion, good day and good gaming.


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to tevans)
Post #: 95
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 6:56:20 PM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big Ivan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads


quote:

ORIGINAL: XLVIIIPzKorp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Well that was a fun walk in the memory lane, with the early Talonsoft releases. I had totally forgotten that the first Battelground game was not Gettysburg, but the Battle of Ardennes / Bulge instead!







What a great little game that was for it's time. A Campaign Series Grandparent.

I still have a copy running on my machine for when I'm feeling nostalgic.




Have you played it for a while, do you recall how the phases work out within a players turn there? And what were those phases?

Edit: referring to Phase menu item seen in the screenshot above



You bet that was a fun walk through memory lane Crossroads!

I think I have that disk around here somewhere. But it probably won't work on my newer machine.




Big Ivan, if you're interested you can get it here https://www.old-games.com/download/5970/battleground-ardennes for free with built in DOSBOX. This runs on my 64 bit machine through an emulated version on Win98, that is emulated in DOSBOX. Go figure

(in reply to Big Ivan)
Post #: 96
RE: Future Plans - 2/2/2019 7:47:21 PM   
Big Ivan


Posts: 1036
Joined: 6/9/2008
From: Mansfield, OH
Status: offline
Hey XLVIIIPzKorp,

Brother you are a saint! I'll give that a try.

I'd like to fool around with that old piece of nostalgia just one more time.

Believe it or not I have an old Win98 machine that still runs too. I think I have the old EF loaded on it with the first expansion disk (can't remember the name)
and the old divided ground. That's it no more available memory as I remember.

But I'll try this and see if it runs on my Win7 rig.

Thanks again my friend!

_____________________________

Blitz call sign Ivan the Big.

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Post #: 97
RE: Future Plans - 2/3/2019 12:12:23 AM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
Big Ivan

I'm sure it will run. Works great on mine. One other thing, when you exit a game you'll still be in Win98 in DOSBOX. After game exit you'll have a blank screen. You'll then need to hit the old windows exit command ALT + F4, when you do that the old windows box will come up asking you if you want to exit windows. After exiting Windows98 you'll go back to your desktop. In effect you have to first exit the game, and then exit Win98.

Happy to be of assistance.

(in reply to Big Ivan)
Post #: 98
RE: Future Plans - 2/3/2019 1:31:17 AM   
Warhorse


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From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
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From a graphics standpoint, love how JT re-used the 2d graphics from one game to another!

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Meine Ehre heißt Treue
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Post #: 99
RE: Future Plans - 2/3/2019 3:23:47 AM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


Posts: 218
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

From a graphics standpoint, love how JT re-used the 2d graphics from one game to another!


IIRC Battleground Ardennes was the first WWII tactical to have a 3D isometric map view. I remember seeing this advertised in gaming magazines and going absolutely crazy looking at those 3D screen shots. You can really see how CS has it's roots way back in this game. Design credit: John Tiller and Jim Rose.

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Post #: 100
RE: Future Plans - 2/3/2019 6:48:38 AM   
Crossroads


Posts: 15138
Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: XLVIIIPzKorp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Warhorse

From a graphics standpoint, love how JT re-used the 2d graphics from one game to another!


IIRC Battleground Ardennes was the first WWII tactical to have a 3D isometric map view. I remember seeing this advertised in gaming magazines and going absolutely crazy looking at those 3D screen shots. You can really see how CS has it's roots way back in this game. Design credit: John Tiller and Jim Rose.

I missed this one, but I recall what a game changer the original East Front was way back then, too. All the detail!

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 2/3/2019 8:35:14 AM >


_____________________________

Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
---
CS: Vietnam | CS: East Front 1939-1941 IN-THE-WORKS
CS: Middle East 1948-1985 Fully reimaged v2.0 available now!

(in reply to XLVIIIPzKorp)
Post #: 101
RE: Future Plans - 2/4/2019 5:51:17 AM   
tevans

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 6/16/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd
My point is i don't see the difference.It seems to me your parsing the terms game/engine to fit your discussion points. Honestly you must see how your statement I've highlighted above fits a whole bunch of games released as new games that would span across genres of games.I think my AGEOD example fits your criteria perfectly. From what i can see Berto is doing exactly what Tiller is doing for the series he has taken over programming for, and they have stated that most of the legacy code is removed. Using your new house analogy, if you tear a house down to the studs and rebuild, is that a new house? does that differ from just slapping paint on the house and calling it new?

I think i'll leave the discussion here, i'll read your reply and leave it at that. It seems we're heading for a useless circle, restating our discussion points. Appreciate the discussion, good day and good gaming.


Not really parsing the terms game and engine. My whole point is nothing new games aren't being created. Just an enhanced gaming system with new combat theaters. That's all. Not all new combat theaters since we're going to end up getting West Front, East Front and Rising Sun all over again. My point is that what's being done amounts to nothing more than modding. Most of the legacy code has been removed but not all. So they're still using some. They're also using the same game systems too.

Look at CS Middle East. They did nice work taking Divided Ground and enhancing it. They added a lot of new things. But the basic game systems are still in place. Movement is the same. Combat is the same. Stats for the units are still in the same places and still work the same way. It has to be that way too or else it ceases to be the Campaign Series. That's my point about the new games and modding. What they're doing is done by modders every day. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. All I'm saying is that it doesn't add up to a brand new game. Maybe enhanced with new combat theaters but not a new game.

Using my house analogy, if you tear the house completely down and rebuild it then it's a new house. If you use any part of the old house such as the foundation or studs then it becomes a remodeled house. In the case of the Campaign Series existing systems that Tiller designed are being used and built upon. The foundation that Tiller laid down is still being used. So anything done shouldn't be considered new or original.

Tiller and his design group have done the same exact thing with some of his other series of games by releasing 'Gold' versions. The 'Gold' versions just enhance older existing versions. They change code, graphics and data just like Jason claims is being done here. But they don't claim the 'Gold' versions are brand new games. They're upgrades. Anybody buying a new Tiller game automatically gets the upgraded version. Current owners can upgrade their older versions for free by providing proof of purchase for those older versions. Upgrades. Not new games. Everything Jason described to me that they're doing with this series amounts to the same thing and all of it can be done through modding. They're enhancing and upgrading an existing game system. Modders do the same thing with games every day.

That's it. I'm done. I've had my say. Nice conversation and good gaming. If I've offended you with anything I've said please accept my apologies.


(in reply to budd)
Post #: 102
RE: Future Plans - 2/4/2019 9:39:12 AM   
Crossroads


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This will be my final post on the issue as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans
Not really parsing the terms game and engine. My whole point is nothing new games aren't being created. Just an enhanced gaming system with new combat theaters. That's all. Not all new combat theaters since we're going to end up getting West Front, East Front and Rising Sun all over again. My point is that what's being done amounts to nothing more than modding. Most of the legacy code has been removed but not all. So they're still using some. They're also using the same game systems too.

You have a unique definition for a new game, and you seem to insist on it. Each to their own. Pretty much all new games nowadays are constructed using a game engine, as been pointed out many times. But again, each to their own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans
Look at CS Middle East. They did nice work taking Divided Ground and enhancing it. They added a lot of new things. But the basic game systems are still in place. Movement is the same. Combat is the same. Stats for the units are still in the same places and still work the same way. It has to be that way too or else it ceases to be the Campaign Series. That's my point about the new games and modding. What they're doing is done by modders every day. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. All I'm saying is that it doesn't add up to a brand new game. Maybe enhanced with new combat theaters but not a new game.

We did not “take Divided Ground and enhanced it”. It is a brand new Campaign Series game.

I just wrote a few posts back there is not one single line of code from Divided Ground codebase on CS Middle East. All unit capabilities past 1945 were created by us. Heloes and refueling, Air levels, SAM systems and radars, ATGM missile loads, IEDs, whatnot. Not a single scenario either. All graphics were reimaged. We kept the main music theme though, as that was a cool tune, and also to give kudos to DG.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans
Using my house analogy, if you tear the house completely down and rebuild it then it's a new house. If you use any part of the old house such as the foundation or studs then it becomes a remodeled house. In the case of the Campaign Series existing systems that Tiller designed are being used and built upon. The foundation that Tiller laid down is still being used. So anything done shouldn't be considered new or original.

Yes, this is based on John Tiller’s work on the Talonsoft and JTCS games. It is not a secret, it is a proud heritage, we still name this Campaign Series.

To make the point: We do not call this Battleground Series, we do not call this Panzer Campaigns, we do not call this Panzer Battles, we do not call this Squad Battles. Those are different game engines, available at JTS. The underlying game engine here is the Matrix Campaign Series game engine.

Not much remains of the original in code. Yet, the new games will play like Campaign Series games: That is what they are. Campaign Series games constructed with an ever evolving Matrix Campaign Series Engine (WW2, Modern).

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans
Tiller and his design group have done the same exact thing with some of his other series of games by releasing 'Gold' versions. The 'Gold' versions just enhance older existing versions. They change code, graphics and data just like Jason claims is being done here. But they don't claim the 'Gold' versions are brand new games. They're upgrades. Anybody buying a new Tiller game automatically gets the upgraded version. Current owners can upgrade their older versions for free by providing proof of purchase for those older versions. Upgrades. Not new games. Everything Jason described to me that they're doing with this series amounts to the same thing and all of it can be done through modding. They're enhancing and upgrading an existing game system. Modders do the same thing with games every day.

That is not “the same exact thing” at all.

Panzer Campaign Gold updates are, well, updates. New graphics, updated scenarios, etc. Sure, not much different in what could have been done by an outside group, in case of those Gold updates as no new version of game engine shipped with them. But those new Gold versions are not mods by modders, they are new official versions to the games, released by JTS.

This is not difficult:

  • CS Vietnam is to CS Middle East as what JTS PzC Budapest’45 is to JTS PzC Smolensk’41. A new game.
  • JTS Budapest’45 Gold is to JTS Budapest’45 as what CS Middle East 2.0 is to CS Middle East 1.0. An update.
  • Jison MapMod to PzC is what MausMan’s MapMod is to CS Middle East. A graphics mod.
  • VolcanoMan’s scenario mods are to PzC as what Alan Arvold’s DG, AIW, OW mods are to CS Middle East. Scenario Mods.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: tevans
    That's it. I'm done. I've had my say. Nice conversation and good gaming. If I've offended you with anything I've said please accept my apologies.

    You have not offended anyone as far as I know. Each to their own. This discussion is obviously not going anywhere anymore, so I just say thank you for the discussion, and good day to you.


    _____________________________

    Visit us at: Campaign Series Legion
    ---
    CS: Vietnam | CS: East Front 1939-1941 IN-THE-WORKS
    CS: Middle East 1948-1985 Fully reimaged v2.0 available now!

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  • Post #: 103
    RE: Future Plans - 2/4/2019 11:40:05 PM   
    demyansk


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    I like my modded Pinnarello and Litespeed. Plus, much better than the Alan on the trainer from the early 80's.

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    Post #: 104
    RE: Future Plans - 2/20/2019 6:09:46 PM   
    salnickovvictory

     

    Posts: 10
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    From: Moscow
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    Summer 2019 to Vietnam

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    Post #: 105
    RE: Future Plans - 2/20/2019 6:17:47 PM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
    Joined: 6/22/2004
    From: Terrace, BC, Canada
    Status: offline
    Probably Fall 2019.



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    Post #: 106
    RE: Future Plans - 2/20/2019 6:37:49 PM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
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    By Fall, I mean in time for Christmas.

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    Post #: 107
    RE: Future Plans - 2/22/2019 2:16:34 AM   
    Infierno


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    Can't wait!

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    Post #: 108
    RE: Future Plans - 2/22/2019 5:33:58 AM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
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    From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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    Thank you, Infierno!

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    Post #: 109
    RE: Future Plans - 5/26/2019 10:38:08 AM   
    LittleBen


    Posts: 39
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    I started with those games...a long time ago, and I should say that even if nowaday graphics are better and the games are really better, I find that on those old it was easier to see the different level of the map…

    I find that with the Middle East the engine is really better, and with that the event engine will open vast possibilities, but I'm really sad, because I really love the western font near the end of WW2, and don't want to wait till 2028...

    (in reply to XLVIIIPzKorp)
    Post #: 110
    RE: Future Plans - 5/26/2019 3:34:57 PM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
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    From: Terrace, BC, Canada
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    Alas, I know the frustration.

    Unfortunately, as we don't get paid for development, we all need day jobs to pay the bills, which consequently eats into production time.

    That will change as soon as I win the lotto though!

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    Post #: 111
    RE: Future Plans - 5/27/2019 4:04:48 PM   
    LittleBen


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    You don't get paid for such work ?? If it was a mod, or some scenarios, I will understand, but your team produces great enhancements of the game, and quit a new one with Middle East…

    By the way, do you have an idea of the number of people who is playing one game of the campaign serie ?

    (in reply to Jason Petho)
    Post #: 112
    RE: Future Plans - 5/27/2019 4:56:51 PM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
    Joined: 6/22/2004
    From: Terrace, BC, Canada
    Status: offline

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LittleBen

    You don't get paid for such work ??


    No, never have for development.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LittleBen
    If it was a mod, or some scenarios, I will understand, but your team produces great enhancements of the game, and quit a new one with Middle East…


    Thank you, the sentiment is appreciated.


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LittleBen
    By the way, do you have an idea of the number of people who is playing one game of the campaign serie ?


    No idea, unfortunately.

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    Post #: 113
    RE: Future Plans - 5/27/2019 7:21:12 PM   
    Big Ivan


    Posts: 1036
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    From: Mansfield, OH
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    Hi Jason,

    Just took a quick look at 2 Wargaming Sites to get a rough idea how many have logged completed games in 2019.

    At The Wargaming Club for Gentlemen (WGCG) There are 34 registered in the JTCS League. The Data Base there is
    currently going through some restructuring so I couldn't get an actual game count.

    Over at the Blitz Wargaming Club in the 2019 Campaign Series Ladder 51 Members have logged at least 1 game played.

    So for a rough estimate figure 75-80 active players for all the Campaign Series Games in just those two popular
    Wargaming sites. There is probably a lot more out there including those how don't belong to any clubs.

    Regards,
    John

    _____________________________

    Blitz call sign Ivan the Big.

    (in reply to Jason Petho)
    Post #: 114
    RE: Future Plans - 5/27/2019 7:38:51 PM   
    LittleBen


    Posts: 39
    Joined: 1/17/2009
    Status: offline
    I'm sure there must be much more players… Do you have an idea of how many CSME have been sold by Matrix ?

    (in reply to Big Ivan)
    Post #: 115
    RE: Future Plans - 5/27/2019 7:54:26 PM   
    Jason Petho


    Posts: 13078
    Joined: 6/22/2004
    From: Terrace, BC, Canada
    Status: offline
    Matrix doesn't publish their numbers, as far as I know.

    _____________________________


    (in reply to LittleBen)
    Post #: 116
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