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Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspite1 (J) vs AllenK (A)

 
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Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspite1 (... - 11/24/2018 4:25:01 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
So my fellow noob AllenK and I have decided to throw ourselves in at the deep end and try a full campaign game. I tried Coral Sea as the Allies a few times circa 10 years ago, got creamed and haven't been back since. I think that this provides the perfect background to try a full campaign as the Japanese......

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/25/2018 10:29:12 AM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805


Post #: 1
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/24/2018 4:31:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 19688
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Hey, good for you! We see you so often that you seem like one of us. It's great that you diving into a PBEM match.

Do I understand you correctly that you haven't played the game in about ten years, and then only short scenarios?

I hope you'll have as much fun, and find it as rich and challenging, as so many of us have. Oh, and please remember to start a new thread: Georgia Beauties.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/24/2018 4:32:22 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/24/2018 4:38:08 PM   
Anachro


Posts: 2150
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
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Nice to have you back, Warpite. Here's to a good game and please do your best to sink the old horse, BB Warspite!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/24/2018 9:44:34 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Do I understand you correctly that you haven't played the game in about ten years, and then only short scenarios?

I hope you'll have as much fun, and find it as rich and challenging, as so many of us have. Oh, and please remember to start a new thread: Georgia Beauties.
warspite1

That is correct Canoerebel. As someone with a WWII obsession (and the naval war in particular) this was a game I really wanted to play. But, as much as I wanted to, I just couldn't get into it. I recently played TOAW IV's Pacific campaign and had some fun with that - but it was just waaaay to unrealistic to keep the interest. But what it did do was spark the appetite to try this again. So, for better or worse, here goes...

Oh as for Georgia Beauties, I have made a temporary amendment in the General Discussion forum


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 4
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/24/2018 9:50:37 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Nice to have you back, Warpite. Here's to a good game and please do your best to sink the old horse, BB Warspite!
warspite1

Don't be ridiculous man. I may have the Kido Butai, Bettys, Nells and Long Lance torpedoes with which to send the USN to the bottom of the Pacific, but I wouldn't kid myself that I could possibly sink the Grand Old Lady!





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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 5
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/24/2018 11:42:48 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 2464
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Have fun.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/25/2018 1:43:21 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 1594
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline
Welcome back yours dreams are your ticket out.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 7
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/25/2018 2:45:16 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 5971
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Nice to have you back, Warpite. Here's to a good game and please do your best to sink the old horse, BB Warspite!
warspite1

Don't be ridiculous man. I may have the Kido Butai, Bettys, Nells and Long Lance torpedoes with which to send the USN to the bottom of the Pacific, but I wouldn't kid myself that I could possibly sink the Grand Old Lady!




Yes, kinda like when you had those undamageable ships in War In Flames.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 8
RE: You thought real life Japan were incompetent? warsp... - 11/25/2018 4:45:42 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
Good luck.

Don't forget to set all Upgrades and Repairs OFF.
Do it globally. You can turn on upgrades and repairs as you get to it.
Focus on the war the first couple of turns.

The only Air and Engine production you really need to turn on for turn one is the front line Army and Navy Fighters and increase the Navy Carrier bombers production and leave their production on.

Check Supply Stockpile levels on all cities with Aircraft and Engine factories (pump up supply one or two clicks). The Industry Screen is your friend.

The rest can reasonablly wait till turn 3 when you can look at supply distribution and start planning which factories to expand and change/target your R&D.



< Message edited by DanSez -- 11/25/2018 4:46:40 PM >

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 9
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 4:56:04 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24074
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So my fellow noob AllenK and I have decided to throw ourselves in at the deep end and try a full campaign game. I tried Coral Sea as the Allies a few times circa 10 years ago, got creamed and haven't been back since. I think that this provides the perfect background to try a full campaign as the Japanese......


Jolly good mate. Jolly, jolly good. Looking forward to following this in detail.

Are you exchanging turns yet, or will this be akin to the Gorn's "AAR" wherein nearly all of the posts took place before hostilities commence?

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 10
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 5:42:41 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
No, we've not exchanged turns yet as we've (i.e. I've) had technophobe issues trying to get the game, patches and scenarios loaded.

However, hopefully this is now sorted and I will be looking to get the game started now.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 11
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 5:43:58 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
Game Version: 1.8.11.26b
Scenario 1 (Andy Mac Update from 2012)

Realism Options
Fog of War: ON
Advanced Weather: ON
Allied Damage Control: ON
Player Def Upgrades: ON
Historical First Turn: ON
December 7th Surprise: ON
Reliable USN Torpedoes: OFF
Realistic R+D: ON
No Unit Withdrawals: OFF
Reinforcement: FIXED for both sides

Game Options
Set All Facilities to Expand at the Start: OFF
Automatic Upgrade Ships and Air Groups: OFF
Turn Cycle: 1-day
All other options are ON.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/25/2018 6:10:55 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 12
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 6:05:31 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
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Are you using Andy Mac's scenario updates?

Makes a difference for Japan - Okha's work, along with some ASW and AA tweaks and some other stuff.

Welcome to the dark side!

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 13
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 6:07:59 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 14
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 6:20:04 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 15
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 6:22:24 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.
warspite1

Why the 001 file?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 16
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/25/2018 7:04:31 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.
warspite1

Why the 001 file?



I tried to explain but made a hash of it, here's the best link - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2180809

If you're not using it already, I'd strongly recommend Tracker for Japan. It's absolutely invaluable as a time-saving tool for matters of organisation, production and industry. Saves on the screeds of paper that you'd need for notes as Japan as well.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 17
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 12:21:43 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24074
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


I agree with the Scot. Don't bother 'zip'ping the 001 or the 003 turn save before emailing it. Turns are only 2-4MB unencrypted. Why introduce another issue with incompatible 'zip' software if you don't need it?

_____________________________


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 18
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 12:23:18 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24074
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.
warspite1

Why the 001 file?



I tried to explain but made a hash of it, here's the best link - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2180809

If you're not using it already, I'd strongly recommend Tracker for Japan. It's absolutely invaluable as a time-saving tool for matters of organisation, production and industry. Saves on the screeds of paper that you'd need for notes as Japan as well.



Two schools of thought on playing the Japanese. One is that you MUST have Tracker. The other, to which I subscribe, is that you don't NEED it. There are some rules of thumb and general trends to follow that, along with 'Kentucky windage' will get you where you need to be.

_____________________________


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 19
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 12:48:48 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 5971
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
I had to look it up: Kentucky windage is "An adjustment made by a shooter to correct for wind (or motion of the target) by aiming at a point horizontal to the target's position in the sight rather than by adjusting the sight to compensate."

The corollary is 'Arkansas elevation' - "A shooter's adjustment by aiming higher than the target's position in the sight to allow for the bullet's drop during travel rather than adjusting the sight."

Thank you, CB.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 20
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 1:40:03 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.
warspite1

Why the 001 file?



I tried to explain but made a hash of it, here's the best link - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2180809

If you're not using it already, I'd strongly recommend Tracker for Japan. It's absolutely invaluable as a time-saving tool for matters of organisation, production and industry. Saves on the screeds of paper that you'd need for notes as Japan as well.



Two schools of thought on playing the Japanese. One is that you MUST have Tracker. The other, to which I subscribe, is that you don't NEED it. There are some rules of thumb and general trends to follow that, along with 'Kentucky windage' will get you where you need to be.


You're right that it's not completely essential, but you're severely handicapping yourself if you don't use it.

I find it essential for several reasons:

- Engine/airframe management is easier by far. Trying to figure out how many Ha-32 engines you need per month using the game alone is fustrating (and prone to human error if you forget that the Emily and Mavis use 4 engines)
- Easily view and compare the stats of every device in the game.
- Industry management in general is also much easier. Tracker even provides warnings about resource/oil storage being at max and fuel/oil/resource shortages.
- View supply/fuel/oil/resource data both globally and regionally (as well as view trends as the game progresses).

Most importantly it saves time. Say, for example you want to know how much supply is on Honshu. That's a lot of clicks in AE. Not so in tracker. And tracker won't make mistakes with the rounding.

Japan, essentially, is a numbers game centered around fuel, supply and VP's. You don't want mistakes.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 21
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 3:28:52 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 8881
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Biggest thing is that it gives you list of every LCU that has arrived at its location … big help in shortening a turn. If it did it for TF's as well, that would be even better, but ….

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 22
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 4:43:59 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 3/16/2012
From: Not all there
Status: offline
Welcome back HMS Noob. Hopefully your game experience is more enjoyable the second time around.

And make sure you teach the Royal Navy its proper place was nowhere east of Ceylon.

Good Luck.

_____________________________

This was the only sig line I could think of.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 23
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 2:03:52 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24074
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Yes, we are using these.

I have gone through the first part of the set up.

In the SAVE file I have the game I've saved: wpae003.pws. Presumably I can just ZIP this and send to my opponent?


You can zip or just directly attached the 001 file and the 003 file. They're not that big filesizes.
warspite1

Why the 001 file?



I tried to explain but made a hash of it, here's the best link - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2180809

If you're not using it already, I'd strongly recommend Tracker for Japan. It's absolutely invaluable as a time-saving tool for matters of organisation, production and industry. Saves on the screeds of paper that you'd need for notes as Japan as well.



Two schools of thought on playing the Japanese. One is that you MUST have Tracker. The other, to which I subscribe, is that you don't NEED it. There are some rules of thumb and general trends to follow that, along with 'Kentucky windage' will get you where you need to be.


You're right that it's not completely essential, but you're severely handicapping yourself if you don't use it.

I find it essential for several reasons:

- Engine/airframe management is easier by far. Trying to figure out how many Ha-32 engines you need per month using the game alone is fustrating (and prone to human error if you forget that the Emily and Mavis use 4 engines)
- Easily view and compare the stats of every device in the game.
- Industry management in general is also much easier. Tracker even provides warnings about resource/oil storage being at max and fuel/oil/resource shortages.
- View supply/fuel/oil/resource data both globally and regionally (as well as view trends as the game progresses).

Most importantly it saves time. Say, for example you want to know how much supply is on Honshu. That's a lot of clicks in AE. Not so in tracker. And tracker won't make mistakes with the rounding.

Japan, essentially, is a numbers game centered around fuel, supply and VP's. You don't want mistakes.



I recognize that many players 'swear by' Tracker. Good on them. My opinion is that the information found on Tracker can be:

A) Found on other screens
B) Summarized / extrapolated / surmised sufficiently elsewhere. Say you want to know how much supply there is on Honshu-in a general way. Is there a single base that serves as an 'acid test' to underscore production / supply shortfalls? [spoiler alert: There is]
C) Replicated manually or dispensed with altogether

Problems with Tracker include:

A) Notoriously user unfriendly to get started. Not for technophobes that don't enjoy fiddling with programs ad nauseum that make their life "easier".
B) Increased potential for 'paralysis by analysis'-may vary user by user. More detailed information about minutiae may not be meaningful for the big strategic picture.

Probably unhelpful (my opinion) for a first time PBEM player playing Japanese for the first time trying to grapple with 'big picture' items instead of minutiae.

_____________________________


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Post #: 24
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 3:55:04 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 5971
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
For me the diagram was key in persuading me that I didn't know what I was doing...





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 25
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 4:40:15 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 8881
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
Yeah, that one really does help visualize the IJ economy ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 26
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 5:21:20 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 5971
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Yeah, that one really does help visualize the IJ economy ...

It is easy for Japan to overproduce early in the war if not considering support costs...Tracker helps with that. The Japanese player needs to set target levels for pools at certain dates (based on my limited experience).

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 27
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 5:22:11 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
We'll agree to differ on this one Chickenboy, but failing to use tracker is putting yourself at a serious disadvantage.

quote:

A) Found on other screens
B) Summarized / extrapolated / surmised sufficiently elsewhere. Say you want to know how much supply there is on Honshu-in a general way. Is there a single base that serves as an 'acid test' to underscore production / supply shortfalls? [spoiler alert: There is]
C) Replicated manually or dispensed with altogether


A - Tracker lets you navigate extremely easily between widely different topics without much clicking. Say you get a new radar set. Tracker concentrates all the information on the build rate, availability dates and the specific stats for that radar. All that information in-game is separate.
B - Yeah, the key there is "general way". Tracker gives you the exact number, broken down by base, without excessive manual addition.
C - Sure, you can do the sums yourself, or you can let Tracker do it and save the time for plotting the turn. Tracker also won't make mistakes, as humans are prone to do when adding airframe production before their morning coffee.

quote:

A) Notoriously user unfriendly to get started. Not for technophobes that don't enjoy fiddling with programs ad nauseum that make their life "easier".
B) Increased potential for 'paralysis by analysis'-may vary user by user. More detailed information about minutiae may not be meaningful for the big strategic picture.


A - We're agreed here. I've had some trouble with Tracker in the past, but nothing that wasn't solved with a search on the forum.
B - Ah, but Tracker even gives you the option to filter by the important stuff. That Port Arthur is out of resources is critical information, that the umpteenth regiment arrived at some hex is not.

quote:

Probably unhelpful (my opinion) for a first time PBEM player playing Japanese for the first time trying to grapple with 'big picture' items instead of minutiae.


I disagree completely. Tracker is very helpful for playing Japan, point blank, irrespective of skill level.

The screenshot posted by Zorch is the best example for the present case - a general overview of IJ industry. Here we can see that green info = good, and red info = bad, as well as daily production and global totals. Gathering that info from the game alone is an exceptionally tedious process.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 28
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 5:43:36 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 40332
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: online
A little questionette if I may make so bold: How does one copy and paste the combat reports? There doesn't appear to be a right click or CTRL left click capability.

Thanks

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 29
RE: Thought the real Japanese were incompetent? warspit... - 11/26/2018 5:47:53 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 2394
Joined: 10/28/2013
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

A little questionette if I may make so bold: How does one copy and paste the combat reports? There doesn't appear to be a right click or CTRL left click capability.

Thanks


They should be in the "SAVE" folder of your AE install. The combat report for the current turn is always undated, but previous turns will have the date after them.

"combatreport.txt" is the current combat report, "combatreport_450101.txt" is the combat report for a Jan 1st 1945 turn.

You can copy/paste from the .txt file.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 30
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