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RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy

 
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RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 3:16:27 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

It's good to finally find some outsiders view on the issue rather to read all this fanboy banter all over again.

"The time management is obscured in such a way that the game becomes opaque. Will my turn end? Can I do another combat? What about the rest of the border?

I totally understand the argument of a turn being a week, and units moving occupy a certain portion of that time, but man, this is just a ****ty way of doing it."

"I’ve said it time and time again, turn based is a throwback to the days of cardboard games. This is fine, but instead of using this back asswards time pulse system, why not just make it real time? It’s a hybrid bastard right now and would strongly benefit from a rework closer to Command Ops. Keep the hexes, keep everything, but kill this abomination of a time management system."

"Hopefully someone comes up with a similar game that fixes the issues here. If Atomic Games could damn well do it 20 years ago with a WEGO system, I’d think someone could do it today."

What is logicall in this pulse system where combat take place before the encirclement is completed yet the results are delayed in time so to allow encirclement? There is no logic behind it and it's both poor design and counterintuitive.

I have no problem with playing this handicapped game. I have problem with people (who are involved in the design) of admitting to the fact.

Link to the review


So you'd rather read WEGO and Real-Time fanboy banter? Let's just ignore the issues with those methods.

That review says more about the state of reviewing nowadays. Review a game after you've only made a cursory attempt to grasp it, and that's what you get.


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Post #: 91
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 3:17:16 PM   
Lobster


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Simply put, you obviously don't like the game even though you say you have no problem with playing it. Your endless whining about the game system would indicate that, for you, it is painful to play. You do absolutely nothing to help but you are more than willing to stand on your shoddy soapbox and throw out big words. And you insult and accuse the people who do like it, defend it and play it and work on improving it of being blind. What you don't know is what is being done to improve the game. One of the things it will never be is a real time twitch fest. If that's what you're looking for go someplace else, you won't find it here. Complaining that TOAW is not rts is not ever going to make it rts. What is ****ty is your endless crying about a game you so clearly do not like and you will never accept anything anyone says to the contrary. As for outsiders views, you will only agree to what anyone says if they agree with your ideas. Why do you even come here?

< Message edited by Lobster -- 2/4/2019 3:19:05 PM >


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Post #: 92
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 5:10:02 PM   
gliz2

 

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You are so funny guys. Any sort of criticism against certain aspect of mechanic you make about the game. If only there was ever a perfect game with no flaws.

I have issue with solution of rounds (and Time Stamps) and not with the Game itself. TAOW 4 does well on a grand scale (10-20km hex) or small (1-2 km) where turns are in weeks or in hours. Then the Pulse system works ok. Not the best solution but also not the worst. On the middle scale like FITE2 unfortunately the Rounds/Time Stamps systems creates a lo of issues. It is just not coherent and illogical. In one case it will allow for rolling over the enemy in other it will penalize with rounds burned for no reason (I haven't discovered the logic behind the results of the combat and the rounds burn). If you guys have some logical explanation to the below picture then please do share.



As I do not know the engine I cannot say what can or cannot be done. IF it would be possible I would see the whole rounds system dropped for Time Stamps (see I do not mind the Time Stamps themselves). TS should be a MPs penalty for the hex(es) where the combat took place. Clean and neat solution. You move through the hex after combat execution and you will have to spend more MPs. And you can have as many combat phases as MPs allow.

The reviewer had an issue with the implementation of the Pulse system. And for that you do not need much of game-play time. There are better or worse implementations but the whole system is flawed. And TAOW4 in current status and in scale of FITE2 is one of the latter. My personal opinion after 400+ hrs spent on the FITE2

PS. Ability to accept the flaws and willingness to improve are the key for improving things.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 2/4/2019 5:15:18 PM >


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Post #: 93
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 5:21:42 PM   
gliz2

 

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Lobster there are people with whom you can have a discussion and there are those with whom you cannot. You have not presented any counterarguments other then constantly attacking me personally.

I love my daughter. Most perfect creature in this world for me. Does not mean she is without flaws or that she is always right.

If I would not enjoy playing the game I wouldn't invest time in writing AARs.

Your arguments make no sense whatsoever and are flawed logically. They bring zero value to the discussion. Bob in the contrary has put effort in presenting his views with examples and logic. Even if I do not agree with him I do not think offended or dissed. He has his point of view. Like everybody else.

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Post #: 94
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 8:31:09 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

I have issue with solution of rounds (and Time Stamps) and not with the Game itself. TAOW 4 does well on a grand scale (10-20km hex) or small (1-2 km) where turns are in weeks or in hours. Then the Pulse system works ok. Not the best solution but also not the worst. On the middle scale like FITE2 unfortunately the Rounds/Time Stamps systems creates a lo of issues. It is just not coherent and illogical. In one case it will allow for rolling over the enemy in other it will penalize with rounds burned for no reason (I haven't discovered the logic behind the results of the combat and the rounds burn).


FITE2 uses the same scale as CFNA. Check out Warspite2's AAR to see how well that scale works. It looked just like the historical campaign - and that was maintained for over 200 turns!

Whatever your issues are, you have yet to identify them well enough that I can understand what they are.

quote:

If you guys have some logical explanation to the below picture then please do share.


We're not mind readers. What's wrong?

quote:

The reviewer had an issue with the implementation of the Pulse system. And for that you do not need much of game-play time.


That is exactly what you need to have his issues: Not much game-play time. Any decent experience and he would have known better.

quote:

There are better or worse implementations but the whole system is flawed. And TAOW4 in current status and in scale of FITE2 is one of the latter. My personal opinion after 400+ hrs spent on the FITE2


TOAW does its job quite well. And I've got the AARs to prove it. That's the bottom line.

_____________________________

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Post #: 95
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 8:38:20 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I don't have any proof but from what Warspite1 said about our PAW game was that the new Naval
Rules and the way the ships perform isn't realistic and he dropped out of our game and I haven't
heard from him since. That was about 3 months ago. And I gripped about not having any night
missions for my bombers but other than these two issues TOAW is without a doubt the finest war
game simulation I've ever played and I've been playing since 2003. And I've tried WITE, WITW,
Panzer Commander, etc. I keep coming back to TOAW because I like it a lot. It's not perfect
but it's getting closer all the time.


< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 2/4/2019 8:40:33 PM >


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if the human race ever does get to be space fairing and be able to visit other worlds, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

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Post #: 96
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 11:27:30 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

It's not perfect but it's getting closer all the time.


Exactly Larry. It's because of the 'fanboys' that this game is still here and continues to improve. It will never be rts thank goodness but some of the things mentioned in this thread are or will be worked on for certain.

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Post #: 97
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/4/2019 11:43:23 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 3144
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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

Lobster there are people with whom you can have a discussion and there are those with whom you cannot.


Exactly my point. You are of the latter. You don't care for the game system by your own words ("I have no problem with playing this handicapped game"). You never will care for the game system. No more need be 'discussed' because your position will never change no matter what Bob or anyone else tries to explain. The only reason you go on and on and on and on is because you think you are so correct in your thinking that you are astounded everyone does not flock to your feet and pronounce your great vision. There is a point where a wise man would see that there is little to no agreement to your views and stop flogging the dead horse. But nope, you gotta have the last word so that you can be correct. We see that a lot in forums. So please, be sure you make the last response you so you are correct and maybe this thread will die the death it so richly deserves. One can only hope.

_____________________________

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"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

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Post #: 98
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/5/2019 7:12:40 AM   
gliz2

 

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Bob,
I'm so sorry mate but I'll make a new thread with only simple questions with examples based on FITE2 (as I'm currently playtest it).
Too many emotional comments already here.



< Message edited by gliz2 -- 2/5/2019 7:25:10 AM >


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Post #: 99
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/5/2019 7:30:09 AM   
Teufeldk

 

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Hi gliz2

I will jump in here:

What is it about the above picture that needs to be explained?

Maybe I can help?

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Regards
Kristian


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Post #: 100
RE: TIME STAMPS and overruning enemy - 2/5/2019 11:30:52 AM   
gliz2

 

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Thanks Kristian for the replies

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Post #: 101
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