Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

New Button Needed For Withwrawl

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> New Button Needed For Withwrawl Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/21/2018 4:04:19 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1125
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
I wanted to mention this and see what everyone has to say about it.

As you know, I have been toying around with the LIVE: Kuril Sunrise scenario. I originally played the game from the Japanese side, and now I have flipped over to the Russian side.

I have found something that possibly needs to be addressed/corrected (it has nothing to do with this scenario on particular) but with the Doctrine Settings with regard to when a unit should withdraw, or RTB.

In this scenario the Russians have a Tu-142A Bear F Mod 1 which is searching for enemy subs out in front of the convoy. There are tankers nearby, and whenever the Bear is in need of fuel, it runs to the tanker. So, that all works fine. But, there is a problem. The Bear has long since used up all of its RGB-1 and RGB-2 sonobouys. So, the plane really can't do much searching for any enemy subs. The Doctrine provides several situations with regard as to when to withdraw, but not having any sonobouys isn't one. So, as long as the Bear has its main weapon, the torpedoes (of course it does, it can't find anything to shoot at), it stays on station until it runs low on fuel. Since the tanker is present, it runs to the tanker, refuels, and comes back to the convoy were it provides next to nothing. If the Bear had used up its weapons, then it would be replaced by any number of other Bears that are waiting at the base. If the tanker wasn't there, then it would have to RGB. But, the tanker is there by design to fuel many units, including the Bear.

So, what I am suggesting is the addition of a button, or a modification of an existing button to allow for units that are primarily searchers to be able to RTB once their sonobouys (etc.) have been exhausted.

If there is another way to make this happen that I am obviously not aware of, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Doug
Post #: 1
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/21/2018 6:35:32 AM   
ARCNA442

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/7/2018
Status: offline
Did you test to see if this was a general problem with RTB or something specific to tankers?

I've found aircraft can make the strangest decisions when there is a friendly tanker in the area (such as one recent scenario when a Nimrod less than 100 miles from its Scottish base flew halfway across the Atlantic to refuel).

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 2
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/21/2018 11:17:25 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1125
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
The withdrawal is tied to fuel. The Bear stay on station (with no sonobouys) until the fuel runs low. The Bear (like all others) heads for the tanker. If you remove all of the tankers, then the Bear heads for the base and a new Bear launches.

So, it's quite obvious that fuel is the reason that the Bear stays on station. There is a withdraw button associated with weapons, but the Bear still has its weapons. But, the Bear has no sonobouys, so it's essentially useless.

Doug

(in reply to ARCNA442)
Post #: 3
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/21/2018 1:00:42 PM   
Sigma8510

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 4/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

The withdrawal is tied to fuel. The Bear stay on station (with no sonobouys) until the fuel runs low. The Bear (like all others) heads for the tanker. If you remove all of the tankers, then the Bear heads for the base and a new Bear launches.

So, it's quite obvious that fuel is the reason that the Bear stays on station. There is a withdraw button associated with weapons, but the Bear still has its weapons. But, the Bear has no sonobouys, so it's essentially useless.

Doug


Why not make the sonobouys a “weapon” for purposes of combat effectiveness and RTB determination? Just spitballing here...

Edit: Would need to account for bouy life, etc.

< Message edited by Sigma8510 -- 11/21/2018 1:03:25 PM >

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 4
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/21/2018 1:38:40 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Good idea Dougulas. Aircraft need to stay on station until last sonobouy expire in water and not drop. If it RTB right after last line just drop than a bunch will be orphaned unless handoffs happen. Not sure if datalink is enforce now though! Might be able to add parameters in ROE section along with weapons and fuels options.

One time devs say stuff about MPA drop patterns. Not sure if they remembers or still on list but can helps with this maybe.

BD

(in reply to Sigma8510)
Post #: 5
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/23/2018 1:02:32 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 12465
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
A 'Withdrawal' button I don't see as being needed - you just press 'B' to RTB the unit and a new one for the mission should be assigned.
You could set the mission/unit to not use AAR so tankers shouldn't be used.

IMHO, having a ROE (like the Shotgun/Winchester) does sound like a nice idea. However, in my plays, I tend to keep my eye on planes/helos on ASW patrol missions; sometimes I want them to immediately RTB when no buoys left, and other times, I like to keep them around a bit to back up ASW attacks especially if there is a number of units still patrolling the area.

Having a ROE would though help the AI side based missions.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 6
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/23/2018 3:39:12 AM   
DWReese

 

Posts: 1125
Joined: 3/21/2014
Status: offline
Michael,

I am quite aware that I can manually send the plane back to base.

The problem is, how do I get the AI to send the plane back when it still has weapons but no sonobouys? For example, in this LIVE: Kuril Sunrise scenario, the two Russian Bears had long since run out of sonobouys, but could always refuel. Refueling is important for the Russians because they don't have an endless supply of Bears. But, when the Bears have reached the stage where they have no more sonobouys they are essentially useless.

So, I can definitely see a need for the AI to have a method to send them back. In fact, I recently scored a victory from the Japanese side because the same two Bears had been on patrol all day, with no sonobouys, and they couldn't find my subs.

If you aren't going to provide a button for this, can it be accomplished via a Lua command? If so, what would that command look like? And, could the Lua command be issued to future Bear flights that haven't even actually been assigned (in-air) as of yet?

The button sounds much easier to me <lol>

Thanks.

Doug

(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 7
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/23/2018 5:18:31 AM   
Scorpion86

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2017
Status: offline
I too second the motion for a Winchester condition tied to the use of sonobuoys! As BDukes mentioned, it could be tied to the sinking of the last sonobuoy the aircraft launched. What say you, honoured Devs?

(in reply to DWReese)
Post #: 8
RE: New Button Needed For Withwrawl - 11/25/2018 8:35:00 PM   
ARCNA442

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/7/2018
Status: offline
I just ran into this problem myself in the community pack scenario "Those Who Hunt Goblins" - even though there were no tankers, the S-2 Tracker's had so few sonobouys they would run out long before they hit bingo fuel and the large number of them made keeping track of this and using manual RTB time consuming.

(in reply to Scorpion86)
Post #: 9
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> New Button Needed For Withwrawl Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133