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Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 12:59:25 PM   
michaelspotts

 

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Eagerly awaiting release - especially as I served 2 of my 4 years in US Army in a maintenance rebuild company (1976-1978) in Boeblingen, Germany.
But, I have to admit most of my wargaming and military reading has not been on this time period. Any advice on good books to add to the manual for background and immersion would as always with these things, be greatly appreciated.
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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 5:00:12 PM   
Badger73

 

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Start with Harold Coyle's "Team Yankee". Tom Clancy's "Red Storm Rising" is also of this era.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 5:10:39 PM   
TarkError

 

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The Defense of Hill 781 James R. McDonough, to start.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 5:15:01 PM   
TomBombadil711


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Ralph Peters - Red Army
Harold W. Coyle - Team Yankee
John F. Antal - Armor Attacks
General Sir John Hackett - Welt in Flammen - Der 3. Weltkrieg. Schauplatz Europa (German)


< Message edited by TomBombadil711 -- 11/15/2018 5:17:50 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 6:15:34 PM   
DerGrenadier


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Bob Forrest-Webb - Chieftains

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 6:19:07 PM   
comsubpac


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Or this documentation on WW3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUg_X5pBKNc

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 6:26:11 PM   
RFalvo69


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CounterAttack issue 1. The game is grand-tactical/Operational in nature, but the magazine covers everything relevant to a WWIII in Europe circa 1987.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5935/drive-frankfurt

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 8:44:01 PM   
pz501


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With the exception of Red Storm Rising I second the motion for all of the above.

US Army FM 71-1 "Tank and Mechanized Infantry Company Team", and FM 3-90.2 "The Tank and Mechanized Infantry Battalion Task Force" are great references. Both are available online, and can be downloaded as PDF's.

Another good book is Kenneth Macksey's "First Clash: Combat Close-Up in World War Three".

The reason I don't recommend RSR is because even though Clancy and Bond tell a great story, and their depictions of air, naval, and submarine actions are excellent, they fall short when depicting ground combat and tactics. They don't describe anything that I ever saw or practiced during three tours in Germany from 1971-85. It's not really their fault though. Bond was a Naval Surface Warfare Officer, and Clancy was a great story teller. Neither one of them at the time the book was written had much experience with the ground combat end. They both got much better in later books.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 8:52:16 PM   
michaelspotts

 

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Thanks to everyone taking time on release day to provide great suggestions. Over to Amazon and back to game.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 10:42:13 PM   
demyansk


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I miss Ralph Peters on the news

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/15/2018 11:09:07 PM   
exsonic01

 

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On top of pz501's post, let me add some more FMs and some other documents. FMs are usually very huge, so you may need to read selectively what you want.

FM 71-123 TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES FOR COMBINED ARMS HEAVY FORCES: ARMORED BRIGADE, BATTALION/TASK FORCE, AND COMPANY/TEAM.
FM 100-2-1 The Soviet Army operations and tactics. With Ralph Peter's Red Army, this will let you know more about Soviet army.
FM 17-15 Tank Platoon: I really enjoyed this when I play tank games like SB Pro and Flashpoint Campaign series. I bet this FM would be helpful for this game too.
Global War Game Second Series, 1984-1988 (published by Naval War College): This work covers not only army, but also navy and air force, and economical political aspect of possible scenarios from 1984 to 1988. Very interesting read.
Airland Battle Doctrine (written by Douglas W Skinner): 1980s were the era of ALB. There are other good documents and FM regarding ALB concept.
NATO's Follow-On Forces Attack (FOFA) Concept: NATO developed FOFA concept while US developed ALB. FOFA is a bit different from ALB.
Operational Art and Tactics (written by David M. Glantz): Nicely summarized about Red Army strategy and tactics.

Google them, and you would be able to find PDFs of those documents.

I guess documents like Operational Art and Tactics, FM 100-2-1, and Airland Battle Doctrine would be greatly helpful for any scenario modders (also campaign modders in the future), if anyone want to make realistic scenario for this game.

Plus, you could find official US Army magazines, like ARMOR, INFANTRY, FIELD ARTILLERY and etc... if you look for issues from 1960~80s, they are great material to read for cold war.


< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/15/2018 11:39:25 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/16/2018 3:31:47 AM   
sfbaytf

 

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I collect the old Strategy and Tactics magazines and this period is covered quite heavily.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/16/2018 8:41:58 AM   
kch

 

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What do you guys think of Team Yankee?

I only did my obligatory military service so not an expert by any standard, but the book seems super unrealistic. It just seems like platoon after platoon of M1s just charging over everything. Not even the heaviest tanks in WW2 could operate like that. Tigers, IS2s etc were slaughtered when just charging ahead unsupported.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/16/2018 12:09:09 PM   
gerardo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01

On top of pz501's post, let me add some more FMs and some other documents. FMs are usually very huge, so you may need to read selectively what you want.

FM 71-123 TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES FOR COMBINED ARMS HEAVY FORCES: ARMORED BRIGADE, BATTALION/TASK FORCE, AND COMPANY/TEAM.
FM 100-2-1 The Soviet Army operations and tactics. With Ralph Peter's Red Army, this will let you know more about Soviet army.
FM 17-15 Tank Platoon: I really enjoyed this when I play tank games like SB Pro and Flashpoint Campaign series. I bet this FM would be helpful for this game too.
Global War Game Second Series, 1984-1988 (published by Naval War College): This work covers not only army, but also navy and air force, and economical political aspect of possible scenarios from 1984 to 1988. Very interesting read.
Airland Battle Doctrine (written by Douglas W Skinner): 1980s were the era of ALB. There are other good documents and FM regarding ALB concept.
NATO's Follow-On Forces Attack (FOFA) Concept: NATO developed FOFA concept while US developed ALB. FOFA is a bit different from ALB.
Operational Art and Tactics (written by David M. Glantz): Nicely summarized about Red Army strategy and tactics.

Google them, and you would be able to find PDFs of those documents.

I guess documents like Operational Art and Tactics, FM 100-2-1, and Airland Battle Doctrine would be greatly helpful for any scenario modders (also campaign modders in the future), if anyone want to make realistic scenario for this game.

Plus, you could find official US Army magazines, like ARMOR, INFANTRY, FIELD ARTILLERY and etc... if you look for issues from 1960~80s, they are great material to read for cold war.




I have always wondered why it is possible to find these books so easily, they should be classified

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/16/2018 1:24:14 PM   
exsonic01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gerardo


quote:

ORIGINAL: exsonic01

On top of pz501's post, let me add some more FMs and some other documents. FMs are usually very huge, so you may need to read selectively what you want.

FM 71-123 TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES FOR COMBINED ARMS HEAVY FORCES: ARMORED BRIGADE, BATTALION/TASK FORCE, AND COMPANY/TEAM.
FM 100-2-1 The Soviet Army operations and tactics. With Ralph Peter's Red Army, this will let you know more about Soviet army.
FM 17-15 Tank Platoon: I really enjoyed this when I play tank games like SB Pro and Flashpoint Campaign series. I bet this FM would be helpful for this game too.
Global War Game Second Series, 1984-1988 (published by Naval War College): This work covers not only army, but also navy and air force, and economical political aspect of possible scenarios from 1984 to 1988. Very interesting read.
Airland Battle Doctrine (written by Douglas W Skinner): 1980s were the era of ALB. There are other good documents and FM regarding ALB concept.
NATO's Follow-On Forces Attack (FOFA) Concept: NATO developed FOFA concept while US developed ALB. FOFA is a bit different from ALB.
Operational Art and Tactics (written by David M. Glantz): Nicely summarized about Red Army strategy and tactics.

Google them, and you would be able to find PDFs of those documents.

I guess documents like Operational Art and Tactics, FM 100-2-1, and Airland Battle Doctrine would be greatly helpful for any scenario modders (also campaign modders in the future), if anyone want to make realistic scenario for this game.

Plus, you could find official US Army magazines, like ARMOR, INFANTRY, FIELD ARTILLERY and etc... if you look for issues from 1960~80s, they are great material to read for cold war.


I have always wondered why it is possible to find these books so easily, they should be classified

I think they are declassified because they are outdated. For example, if you look for the materials I suggest above, they are published back in 1970 ~ early 1990. Strategies, tactics, and concepts of now days are different from those era.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/16/2018 2:53:32 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/17/2018 2:31:28 PM   
PzBrig18

 

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There is
First Clash: World War Three, Kenneth Macksey (good military stuff for the game)
We Were Soldiers Too Series, Bob Kern


< Message edited by PzBrig18 -- 11/17/2018 2:38:34 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/17/2018 7:12:14 PM   
jiggathebaws

 

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Is the magazine Downloadable from there? Don't see a pdf

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/18/2018 4:37:22 AM   
Hub6Actual

 

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.

< Message edited by Hub6Actual -- 11/17/2019 4:26:45 AM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/18/2018 9:14:01 AM   
PzBrig18

 

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Which Magazine?

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/18/2018 10:49:04 PM   
jiggathebaws

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PzBrig18

Which Magazine?



Counter attack issue 1

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/18/2018 11:11:37 PM   
kneecaps

 

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I recommend Iron Soldiers,
It's the first gulf war in 91' but it's US vs Soviet hardware...great view of what tank fighting is like.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1678164.Iron_Soldiers

You may also want to look at AirLand Battle as this is the doctrine that the US Army was built around in the 80s and 90s and explains the thinking:
https://www.amazon.com/Art-Maneuver-Warfare-Theory-Airland/dp/0891415327

Also the Tactics 101 series over here:
http://armchairgeneral.com/category/tactics101



< Message edited by kneecaps -- 11/18/2018 11:18:11 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/19/2018 1:06:58 AM   
Rosseau

 

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David Isby's "Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army" (circa 1985) is very dated, but does shed some light on early '70s to '80s.


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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/19/2018 6:23:37 AM   
pinwolf

 

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Armies of World War 3:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rrd20ysc42ci02z/Armies_of_World_War_3.pdf/file

Modern Tanks and Fighting Vehicles:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jn4pbskf1f7bjuc/IGT+-+Modern+Tanks+and+Fighting+Vehicles.pdf

Weapons of the Modern Soviet Ground Forces:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cd0ejlefc40u5hb/IGT+-+Weapons+of+the+Modern+Soviet+Ground+Forces.pdf

NATO Order of Battle 1989:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1c54ppwzudgqtua/NATO+Order+of+Battle+1989.pdf

Warsaw Pact Order of Battle - June 1989:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/cnukk3uqzccto74/Warsaw+Pact+Order+of+Battle+-+June+1989.pdf

OOB British Army in the 80s:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ik88zgtwzbzd9bq/OOB+British+Army+in+the+80s.pdf

East Germany's Military: Forces and Expenditures:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a221839.pdf

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/19/2018 12:01:28 PM   
Adam Rinkleff

 

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Red Army by Ralph Peters is a good book. I haven't thought much of the author's subsequent work, but that book is pretty good. Trinity's Child by ???? is another good novel, along with On the Beach.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/19/2018 1:41:41 PM   
PoorOldSpike


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Interesting snippet about commanding troops-
In Norman Schwarzkopf's autobiography "It Doesn't Take a Hero" he says (page 158) the "most brilliant tactical commander I'd ever known" was Col. Ngo Quang Truong of the South Vietnamese Army.
Schwarzkopf was a Major at the time and worked closely with him in Nam.




"He did not look like my idea of a military genius" writes Schwarzkopf, "only five feet seven,in his mid-forties,very skinny...yet he was revered by his troops and feared by those North Vietnamese commanders who knew his ability...it was fascinating to watch him operate.
As we marched, he would stop to study the map, indicate a position and say "fire artillery here".
I was skeptical at first but called in the barrages; when we reached the area we found bodies.
Simply by visualising the terrain and drawing on his experience fighting the enemy for 15 years,Truong showed an uncanny ability to predict what they were going to do.
When we set up our command post that night, Truong opened his map, lit a cigarette and outlined his battle plan.
The strip of jungle between our position on the ridges and the river, he explained, made a natural corridor - the route the NVA would most likely take.
He said 'At dawn we will send out one battalion and put it here on our left as a blocking force between the ridge and the river.
Around 8 o'clock tomorrow morning they will make a big enemy contact.
Then I will send another battalion here to our right. They will make contact at about 11 o'clock.
I want you to have your artillery ready to fire into this area in front of us, and then we will attack with our 3rd and 4th battalions down toward the river.
The enemy will then be trapped with the river at his back'"
The battle went exactly to plan, and Schwarzkopf writes "We'd scored a decisive victory!"

(PS-Truong later emigrated to Virginia and died there in Jan 2007)


< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/19/2018 1:49:34 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/19/2018 11:58:26 PM   
Homewrecker

 

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I found a copy of Janes Weapons Systems from 75-76 while out this afternoon. Picked it up for 15 bucks. Thing weighs a ton. It has some great information on many of the weapons systems in this game. Even some of the early documentation of the Leopard 2, M1, and a Soviet tank called the T-70, which I can only believe is the T-64? Has lots of Cool pictures amd descriptions of everything from unguided AT weapons, radar systems, to AFV's. I was initially more interested in the 80's era but that book made me want to explore the 70's and all the equipment that was bleeding edge in its day.

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/22/2018 1:13:27 PM   
exsonic01

 

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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304461906_AN_OPERATIONAL_MAP_OF_THE_POLISH_COASTAL_FRONT_1970
Plan for an Offensive Operation of the Coastal Front for Polish Army

While I think their plan is absurdly too optimistic (2 days to Bremen and 3 days to reach German-Denmark border), it is still interesting read.

Poland stronk

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/22/2018 1:36:36 PM >

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RE: Books on timeframe of game? - 11/22/2018 8:57:15 PM   
mekanopsis

 

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Fortuitously I just found a copy of Tom Clancy's 1994 "Armored Cav" in my local bookshop and I will straight up declare that, for the US "faction" at least, this is Armored Brigade's perfect manual. Although it segues into the Gulf War era it mostly takes you through the basic science, history and development of the tactics and systems of US mechanized brigades, with a light history of US V Corps and the 11th ACR in the Fulda Gap. Better than Clancy's thrillers. I would also recommend reading up on the 2005-declassified "7 Days to the Rhine" WP war plans.

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