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First scenario completed. Major disappointment

 
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First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 10/5/2018 7:28:17 PM   
Para87

 

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So I load up my first game of TOAW 4 with the Walvis Bay scenario and what a disappointment it turns out to be.

After turn 4 the Namibians do not make a single assault just a series of completely ineffectual bombardments. 90% of the bombardments inflict 0% losses. This goes on for 25 consecutive turns. I did not give a single order for those 25 turns and got a victory. No defeats and barely any loses.

So what's up with that then?

< Message edited by Para87 -- 5/7/2020 4:29:16 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 10/5/2018 10:04:09 PM   
Lobster


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Just played it. Plenty of attacks by Namibian/Cuba. Some bombardments. There are many other scenarios. This one was made with an earlier version of TOAW just as it says in the pop up.

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"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Para87)
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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 10/5/2018 10:30:59 PM   
Freyr Oakenshield


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Play as Namibians now. See if there is any difference...

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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 10/6/2018 3:19:26 AM   
Lobster


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Of course there would be a difference. I would be the Namibians.

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"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

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Post #: 4
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 10/11/2018 7:50:59 AM   
Para87

 

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I'd be happy to send a save game file for this to be looked at.

< Message edited by Para87 -- 10/11/2018 7:51:18 AM >

(in reply to Lobster)
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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 11:13:26 AM   
Para87

 

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Anybody played this scenario recently? Thoughts?

Looking to give TAOW another go.

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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 1:00:00 PM   
Hellen_slith


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I haven't played this particular scenario, but I've played a lot of different other scenes, and what one must keep in mind is that the computer is not an "AI" per se (although it uses logic) but rather a PROGRAMMED OPPONENT that depends upon its designer for good pathing -- that is to say, a scene can have a badly "programmed" set up (which is set by the designer) or it can have a very good "programming" and objective paths set behind it.

As Lobster says, there are many many other scenarios ... so many that I would think it very improbable that anyone could complete every scenario, from each side, in a lifetime. Also, I think (could be wrong) that TOAW IV has some "improvements" to its AI logic that might not be optimized for the scenarios that were created in TOAWIII or in earlier versions.

Anyway, I hope you find a scene that you like! If you are interested in pre-WWI scenarios, take a look at my compilation of briefings re: pre-WWI scenes. Many of those have very serviceable programmed opponents. The link to the compilation of pre-WWI breifings is follow, it is a 40 or so pages pdf file that will open in a new window

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uoJUFo2QwpFDgIvzFA2JhJKRvS08bk1f

Also, you might want to look at the Elmer "primer" from TOAW III for a good background about how Elmer (the PO) works. Here is a link to that (short pdf file)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D9lbXlr9efo-WxVM1UYSp8Fs4NDlBCzY

I hope this links are helpful to you! Have a great gaming day!

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 5/7/2020 1:41:03 PM >

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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 1:37:58 PM   
r6kunz


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Damon, your compilation of Pre-WWI scenarios is a welcomed contribution to the TOAW community. Thanks!

Para87, I hope you find the above comments helpful. Let us know how it is going for you.

Cheers
RAK



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(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 8
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 4:17:15 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Thank you for the kind words!

I'm still working on Vol. II (WWI scenario briefings)
Hoping to get that done in the next week or so,
but I find that looking at all those briefings,
I want to play more of them so that slows me down a bit (a LOT actually!)

Goal is to have WWII briefings compiled by end of summer.
That's the BIG one.

Well, thanks again! And thanks for those VCO series, love those. Still on volume I of that,
very in depth! Great stuff!

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 9
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 4:24:28 PM   
Para87

 

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Thanks for the response and the documents.

If I came across harsh with this thread it's only because I was particularly keen on this scenario in TOAW4. Having at the time also sunk plenty of hours into another wargame that ultimately turned out to be broken beyond repair I wasn't exactly enthusiastic about allocating more hours testing the waters with TOAW4.

Ready to give it another go now though.



< Message edited by Para87 -- 5/7/2020 4:31:28 PM >

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 10
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/7/2020 4:36:23 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Not harsh at all, glad we can help. TOAWIV is a complex and sometimes frustrating experience. I also had my fill when I was first trying to get back into TOAW (long time ACOW player, but I missed TOAWIII). But now, after many hours of hair pulling and teeth grinding, I am finding it to be very enjoyable.

I'm not familiar w/ that scene you mentioned, but there are tons and tons of scenes ... and the best part of it all, you have the Scenario Editor to play with, too: if you don't like the way your scene is playing, by all means, have a go at improving it or even remaking it to your liking.

Anyway, glad to know you will give it another chance! Check out all the recent AARs, you might find a scene that you will like even better!

Ok, well, have a great day!

(in reply to Para87)
Post #: 11
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/17/2020 11:09:39 AM   
Para87

 

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So I've been trying out a few of the smaller scenarios and finding the AI more aggressive. Generally got the hang of it now with the one major exception being 'readiness'

To be more precise reediness recovery. In all the scenarios 'readiness' has plagued me almost all my units despite rest and plentiful supply. I'm in the midst of the Cuba '62 scenario and with almost all my units stuck at 33% readiness. I thought I'd focus on figuring out why their recovery rate is so excruciatingly slow.

So a took a Marine unit at 33% readiness and parked at a safe, well supplied area and observed it for a few turns. Turns out it was recovering at a anemic 3% a turn. By my calculations that's around 15 turns or almost half the length of the entire scenario just to get it back to 80%. Then it costs 20% to get the unit back to the front. I'm already 14 turns in so that unit is now of little use going forward.

Am I missing something? Checked the manual but haven't found any options to improve recovery rate.


(in reply to Hellen_slith)
Post #: 12
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/19/2020 5:44:44 PM   
Hellen_slith


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Interesting observation--I too try to look at supply (because that is a big factor for a unit's effectiveness) and can only remind, that scenarios can be very different "feeling". That is to say, do not take an observation about poor supply in one scenario, and think that all scenarios play like that one.

I haven't played the Cuba '62 scene (I generally don't like scenes with a lot of naval) but also, remember: you can "tweak" the scenes to your liking, if you like to fiddle with the scenario editor.

Not sure what to tell you about that Marine unit. I put them in to the line, even with only 50% supply sometimes. More so if it is a dire situation. Anyway, have a great gaming day!!!

(in reply to Para87)
Post #: 13
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/22/2020 4:24:19 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Para87

So a took a Marine unit at 33% readiness and parked at a safe, well supplied area and observed it for a few turns. Turns out it was recovering at a anemic 3% a turn....

Am I missing something? Checked the manual but haven't found any options to improve recovery rate.



For best supply recovery for a unit:

should be parked: on a RR hex that has an unbroken "line of supply" to a supply point, with an airfield on it, with the unit's HQ command chit.

I find that to be the best spot for supply recovery ... unless you can get it onto a major supply depot (w/ an airfield and the HQ command chit on top).

Those placements get the best supply recovery, I've found. I hope this helps!

PS: of course, the recovery rate will depend on other factors, too, scenario design factors built by the creator, "asset sharing" capabilities, etc.

Have a great day!

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 5/22/2020 4:25:14 PM >

(in reply to Para87)
Post #: 14
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/22/2020 5:06:22 PM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Para87

So I load up my first game of TOAW 4 with the Walvis Bay scenario and what a disappointment it turns out to be.

After turn 4 the Namibians do not make a single assault just a series of completely ineffectual bombardments. 90% of the bombardments inflict 0% losses. This goes on for 25 consecutive turns. I did not give a single order for those 25 turns and got a victory. No defeats and barely any loses.

So what's up with that then?


What you say is true. Just bombardments by the Namib/cubans after turn 4. My guess is that it is a TOAWIII scenario that has never been reworked for TOAWIV. Some new processes in the way combat works in TOAWIV could cause bombardments instead of assaults in certain instances.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

(in reply to Para87)
Post #: 15
RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/24/2020 9:47:01 PM   
Hellen_slith


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Para87

So I load up my first game of TOAW 4 with the Walvis Bay scenario and what a disappointment it turns out to be.

After turn 4 the Namibians do not make a single assault just a series of completely ineffectual bombardments. 90% of the bombardments inflict 0% losses. This goes on for 25 consecutive turns. I did not give a single order for those 25 turns and got a victory. No defeats and barely any loses.

So what's up with that then?


What you say is true. Just bombardments by the Namib/cubans after turn 4. My guess is that it is a TOAWIII scenario that has never been reworked for TOAWIV. Some new processes in the way combat works in TOAWIV could cause bombardments instead of assaults in certain instances.



A very interesting observation made here by Lobster, esp. in light of my continuing looks at all the scenarios.

I am finding, that in the vast majority of the briefings that I've gone through, is that the scene is designated as being created in / for TOAWIII.

Which leads me to think, perhaps there are a lot of scenes that we are playing that are "suffering" from lack of a TOAWIII --> TOAWIV conversion?

Not sure. Just a guess, though.

PS: and my guesses are often right. I built a career on my guesses. :)

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 5/24/2020 9:51:52 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
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RE: First scenario completed. Major disappointment - 5/24/2020 10:51:33 PM   
Hellen_slith


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TOAW V: ULTIMATE BAD ASS CONVERTED STUFF COMPLETE W/ ENCYCLOPEDIAS

Just take me money, please :) Where do I sign up for the beta testering?

< Message edited by Hellen_slith -- 5/24/2020 11:01:07 PM >

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Post #: 17
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