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no german production for afrika - 9/30/2018 7:24:31 AM   
MrBlizzard


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Playing "torch to tunisia" scenery, last beta.
just arrived at turn 10
German production of squads/devices until now is ZERO (except few AFVs produced by specific factories)
All units of afrika panzer korps are needing them badly and are well below the TOE
Germany production is put to 40% level (a very generous level for Afrika armée indeed, provided that Germany is mainly involved in Russia and against Allied in the air in Europe)
But the real ground production level seems to be zero.
Is there a problem or is WAD?
Thanks








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RE: no german production for afrika - 9/30/2018 10:16:50 PM   
Joel Billings


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In my recent tests of .35, the values aren't 0, but they are very low (with lots of 0s for some elements). These are armament dependent builds, and the Germans have few armaments points in this scenario by design (about 500 German and 500 Italian per turn, you should see armaments listed as built in the production screen). If you want us to look into this further, please post saves from an Allied turn and from the following German turn so we can run a test ourselves. Either attach to a post, or email to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks. I'm going to move this to the bug forum as I think the attachment limit is higher there.

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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/1/2018 5:47:44 PM   
MrBlizzard


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Ok here you are:
allied and axis save for turn 9
thanks


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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/1/2018 8:28:22 PM   
MrBlizzard


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and axis save for turn 10

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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/2/2018 12:37:56 AM   
Joel Billings


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Thanks for the saves. I don't know why they don't seem to be building (or reporting building). They are in my games, so will need to look further. The few avaialble armaments points may be getting used up somehow before the builds. In my test games it takes about 6 turns before the Germans start building some item. You're game is PBEM, so there might be something different there (but there shouldn't be). I suggest you keep playing. We'll add it to our task list to take a look and see where the armaments points are going.

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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/2/2018 10:08:57 AM   
Denniss

 

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Something's really strange here: just loaded Torch, turned over to allies and they have negative armament points.
This is with EFB control on in main game settings which also displays an irrelevant (empty) EFB replacements entry in event log

on first full axis turn (T2) both ITA/GER just produce armament points to fill their empty stores, nothing is built from these points.
Allied T2 has them fill their armament storages without production. negative points from previous turn seem to have been zeroed before as production matches storage.
On the following turns everyone starts to produce arm-based elements

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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/2/2018 4:22:37 PM   
Joel Billings


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Production of manpower and armaments comes at the end of the turn after the replacement phase where ground elements are built. So it's normal to have the first turn production of armaments not be used.

Can't explain the negative points on turn 1 for the Allies, but that seems to get sorted out as you say by turn 2. This isn't new as I looked at a test game from 2016 and turn 1 had a negative armaments value.



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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 1:13:43 PM   
MrBlizzard


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After some monitoring I can say it seems to me just a reporting problem. German production is made and distributed to units but it's only visible in the log file (in save folder).

However this turn I had an issue of negative production for some items (I'll be more detailed when I'm back home).

And there's also a new issue of what is produced. Last turn I put in refit a Luftwaffe brigade with TOE under 20% (but almost full with support squads). This turn were produced many support squads and the brigade now is full with them (100%) but all combat squad/devices are still depleted. (I'll provide image also for this). I can open another thread on this

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 10/4/2018 4:09:54 PM >


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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 4:06:27 PM   
MrBlizzard


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Here it is what I mean,
for turn 12, from event log file, I found in the "WEST FRONT GROUND REPLACEMENTS" section of the event log file that have been produced :
8 Motorized Rifle Squad
3 7.92mm Machine Gun
3 81mm Mortar
1 50mm Anti-tank Gun
and some negative numbers:
-2 88mm Anti-aircraft Gun
-7 20mm Anti-aircraft Gun
-4 37mm Anti-aircraft Gun

Of course none of these numbers is reported in the production screen






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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 4:09:09 PM   
MrBlizzard


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here is the allied save for the end of turn 11



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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 4:54:34 PM   
MrBlizzard


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And for the other production related issue, I put in refit the 1st LW jaeger brigade that was at only 20% of TOE,
it needed badly everthing (fallschirmjaeger squads, mg squads, mortar squads..) except support squads as these were at 82% of TOE;
and support was not a problem for this unit (see support/need: 94/30)






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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 5:00:20 PM   
MrBlizzard


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...the following turn I found that...119 (!!!) support squads had been produced and 20 had been sent to this unit completing the TOE (100%) for this category.
all other types badly needed (mg, mortars, fallschirmajeger, guns, etc...) stuck as before.
It seems there's something strange about what is produced in comparison with what is needed

Thanks in advance








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RE: no german production for afrika - 10/4/2018 6:45:24 PM   
Joel Billings


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I can't explain the negative numbers, however I think the replacement log is different than the number of elements produced. You can have units take replacements without having any production, they are two different things. The elements may already be in the pool or damaged elements could be sent back to the pool and could be available to be used as replacements.

As for the support squad production, the system could do this. Given the lack of armaments, they may be all that can get built (they are cheap to build). These excess support may ultimately be sent back to the pool and/or converted into emergency rifle squads (although that may not help this unit as I don't remember if Fallschirmjaeger Squads qualify for emergency conversion of support).

I've got a few of these items on our list to look into, but it may turn out that aside from the negative values, there's no bug here, just what happens given the system and shortage of armaments points in the scenario.

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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/9/2018 11:01:26 AM   
MrBlizzard


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Hi, here is the complete german production situation at the end of the Torch scenary, turn 37.

5325 support squads arrived as replacements and 1196 air support squads
against less than 1800 "combat" squads (including artillery).
At the end of the game german units are full of support squads and empty of combat squads:

WEST FRONT GROUND REPLACEMENTS

TURN GAME

0 ___ 10 _____ Panzer IIf
0 ___ 3 _____ Panzer IIIj L/60
0 ___ 161 _____ Panzer IIIm
0 ___ 23 _____ Panzer IVg
4 ___ 66 _____ Panzer IVh
0 ___ 192 _____ Panzer IVg 1943
0 ___ 12 _____ Tiger
0 ___ 7 _____ Panzer IIIn
0 ___ 4 _____ Panzer IVe

0 ___ 1 _____ Panzerjaeger I
0 ___ 38 _____ Panzerjaeger II
1 ___ 16 _____ Marder III
0 ___ 26 _____ Lorraine (SdKfz-135/1)

0 ___ 31 _____ SdKfz-10/4 SP Flak
1 ___ 31 _____ SdKfz-10/5 SP Flak
0 ___ 12 _____ SdKfz-250/7 Mortar Carrier
0 ___ 8 _____ SdKfz-7/1 SP Flak

0 ___ 28 _____ SdKfz-231 Armored Car
0 ___ 6 _____ SdKfz-232 Armored Car
0 ___ 4 _____ SdKfz-221 Armored Car
0 ___ 35 _____ SdKfz-222 Armored Car
0 ___ 11 _____ SdKfz-223 Armored Car

17 ___ 219 _____ Rifle Squad
8 ___ 8 _____ Rifle Squad
3 ___ 192 _____ Motorized Rifle Squad
0 ___ 38 _____ Motorized Rifle Squad (+)
2 ___ 30 _____ Pioneer Squad
1 ___ 30 _____ Fallschirmjaeger Squad

0 ___ 2 _____ Motorcycle Squad

1 ___ 32 _____ 7.92mm Anti-tank Rifle
0 ___ 16 _____ 7.92mm Machine Gun
9 ___ 341 _____ 7.92mm Machine Gun
0 ___ 2 _____ 50mm Mortar

3 ___ 143 _____ 81mm Mortar
3 ___ 132 _____ 50mm Anti-tank Gun
0 ___ 12 _____ 75mm Anti-tank Gun
1 ___ 13 _____ 47mm Anti-tank Gun
4 ___ 84 _____ 88mm Anti-aircraft Gun
0 ___ 36 _____ 105mm Howitzer
0 ___ 17 _____ 150mm Howitzer
0 ___ 8 _____ 87.6mm Gun-Howitzer
1 ___ 8 _____ 150mm Nebelwerfer
0 ___ 19 _____ 105mm Field Gun
0 ___ 12 _____ 210mm Howitzer
7 ___ 205 _____ 20mm Anti-aircraft Gun
5 ___ 22 _____ 20mm Quad Anti-aircraft Gun
3 ___ 19 _____ 37mm Anti-aircraft Gun
0 ___ 18 _____ 28mm Anti-tank Gun
0 ___ 22 _____ 150mm Infantry Gun
0 ___ 13 _____ 120mm Mortar
0 ___ 39 _____ 75mm Infantry Gun

154 ___ 5325 _____ Support
315 ___ 1196 _____ Air Support


6771 ___ 133617 _____ Manpower


Edit: in the whole Torch campaign Germany lost just 997 support squads.
So production numbers for support squads look inflated in comparison of real need IMHO as you can see also here:
10th panzer at the end of Torch (see post #15)
Can provide more examples if needed.
Thanks


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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/9/2018 6:24:25 PM   
Denniss

 

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were the support squads massiveley produced or is that just transfer from/to airfields ?
if that's production then it's way over the top if a panzer div has more cooks than trained soldiers.

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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/9/2018 8:20:36 PM   
MrBlizzard


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Probably they're just damaged support squads that come back to units as replacements after transiting in the transit pool.
No over production.
Support squads start in big numbers in german divisions and finish in big numbers.




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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/10/2018 9:06:06 AM   
Denniss

 

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There is a game engine problem if it prioritizes production of support squads over combat squads even if the unit currently has more support than required in-unit.
But if you are very low on armament points if often leads to the least-expensive squads to be produced

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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/10/2018 12:13:08 PM   
MrBlizzard


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I tried to count the number of german support squad produced from T22 (it's the last turn some new units arrive as reinforcements) to T37 (end game):
I considered:
- active support squads
- damaged support squads
- support squads in pool
- destroyed support squads






I got a negative number: -84 !!!

So I realized I didn't consider support squads converted to infantry squads:
- 14 at turn 24
- 5 at turn 26
- 9 at turn 30
-12 at turn 31
-14 at turn 32
-13 at turn 33
-13 at turn 34
- 8 at turn 36
totally 88 converted squads
so it seems from T22 to T37 just 2 support squads were produced


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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/11/2018 7:46:52 AM   
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Negative numbers in the replacement window is just stuff leaving units back to the pool from TOE changes. If the TOE now demands less of something...the excess goes back into the pool.

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RE: no german production for afrika - 12/11/2018 9:21:34 AM   
MrBlizzard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Negative numbers in the replacement window is just stuff leaving units back to the pool from TOE changes. If the TOE now demands less of something...the excess goes back into the pool.


Ok thanks, in the example in post #9 I closed an airbase putting TOE to zero, so its AA guns were given back to pool (here the negative numbers)

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