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German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocations

 
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German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocations - 9/20/2018 4:45:59 AM   
Saulust

 

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In the GC and the Roads to games the German Sicherungs Security Divisions start with weird allocations of troops, are these figures right or is there some reason why they are way off?

There are 9 starting SDs, looking at them doesn't match:

403rd SD has some large allocations more than any of the rest. It has 116% of TOE on average total even though as with the other two 102 RHG SDs it is missing its 2 heavy Infantry Guns but comes with an excess allocation of Security squads, MGs & Mortars, although to me 138 Sec Squads might be just a typo for 108, it has on the other hand 60 MGs 2/3s above the usual 36, again possibly a typo but why 30 81mm mortars when all the rest have 18?
Oddly for 102 RHG SDs since the other two don't have any the 403rd has 2 of its 3 Pioneer Squads!

221 has TOE at 97 and is only short its 2 heavy Inf Guns & a 3 squad platoon of Pioneers.
286 also is only short both its heavy Inf Guns & the 3 Poineers, but still gets to 100% of TOE with an extra 12 MGs at 48.

207 has 100% of TOE all there complete, but it is locked in Konigsberg, while most sources and maps I've seen have that SD on the border participating in Barbarossa about where the 217th ID is, although may be there were confusions between these two similar numbered Divisions, but then again some of other SDs were on the frontier at start date.

281 missing a few single units, but all 108 Security Squads not present!
285 similarly missing a few items but again all 108 Security Squads not present.
213 same missing a few lacking all 108 Security Squads.
444 missing a couple of items no 108 Security Squads allocated yet.
454 lacking 3 single items but yet again none of the 108 Security Squads appear to be allocated either!



It looks to me that the 3 sets of Security Divisions were created or written up in game differently, those yellow ones in AGN very close to TOE, although only one SD has its 108 Security Squads included, but I question the placement and locking down / zero movement of the 207th SD which I've always seen between I Korps & XXVI Korps.

The Orange 3 in AGC are the strangest, all not having there 2 heavy Infantry Guns, while each having a different number of MGs, 36, 48 & 60!

The 3 teal SDs of AGS are similar to each other mostly, but all 3 are missing their complete 108 Security Squads.

So the yellows are most correct with the exception of only one of them having its actual TOE 108 Security Squads in them while the rest also except the weirdest 403 don't have any, but are missing a few items each while only the 3 orange SDs are lacking their 2 heavy IGs.

I wonder about these allocations, I know that they fill up quickly in a few turns with replacements, but how did they get designed and allocated this way, and is anyone else perturbed about it?

I can understand that may be some German players would like the cap the Max percentage of these SDs to save those replacements for the front units, but they shouldn't be needed anyway.

It could be that they all are designed to have at least to start with their actual Infantry combat Regiment of 111 regular Infantry Squads and kit and caboodle (3 Pioneers, 27 light & 18 81mm mortars, 12 37mm PAKs & 105mm leFHs) but then have a reasonable starting allocation of a near Regiments worth amount of actual Security Squads, be it 108 or some such, but that they are short of so players who like to cap their Max TOE can do so.

I would like to know what ideally should be the right number of Security Squads that these SDs should have really, the best I've seen is on the Niehorster website Sicherungs 41 page which displays all 9 SDs with their assigned Inf Rgmt, usually 4 LS or Landesschützen Btlns, a single Wach Btln and a Motorized Field Police Btln group (which seem to have 16 heavy MGs themselves) plus Prisoner Guard units. how is all that accounted for in 108 Security Squads TOE anyway?

The Police Btln might have up to at least 4 Companies of 2 to 3 Platoons?
The Wach Btln seems standardised with 4 Companies of 3 platoons of 3 Squads at least
The LS Btlns were a mixed bag, ranging from 3 to 5 Companies, but each seem to have 9 lMGs as the Wach Companies and therefore 3 platoons each with 3 LS Squads each. I have looked at other tallies of LS Btlns through the war, best one of the Balkans and usually LS Btlns have 3-4 Companies averaged to 4 with some a few at 5, one or two did have 2 or up to six, most 3-5, but averaged 4 IIRC. The thing I don't know for sure it the usual number of squads per platoon of LS, not cirtain if it is 3 or 4 or if there were any changes, anyone know?

Anyway I count an ideal number of 6 Security types of Btlns in Sicherungs Division, how is 108 Squads TOE adequate?
I see one Wach Btln with 4 Companies of 3 Pltns of at least 3 Squads each total 36 alone.
I see one Mot Police Btln of 3 to 4 Coys of 2 to 3 Pltns so 16 to 36 Sec Squads, unless WITE doesn't want to count them or the Prisoner guard units
4 Btln group of LS Btlns with a usual average of 3 or 4 Companies of 3 Platoons of 3 Squads each on average so 27 min to 36 Security Squads by 4 Btlns is 81 to 144.

So instead of 108 may be the TOE should be at least 144 or up to 216 Sec Sections for the SDs like they are later in the game.

< Message edited by Saulust -- 9/20/2018 12:21:09 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocat... - 9/20/2018 1:55:02 PM   
AlexSF


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Oh wow, that's some in depth analysis of SD divisions ! Just break them up in regiments, put them in Russian towns and forget about them

(in reply to Saulust)
Post #: 2
RE: German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocat... - 9/20/2018 2:33:44 PM   
Saulust

 

Posts: 115
Joined: 8/25/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

Oh wow, that's some in depth analysis of SD divisions !


Umm, I wouldn't call my original post an in depth analysis of Sicherungs Divisions as such really.

It may be long winded perhaps and a bit repetitive too much though so excuse me please!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexSF

Just break them up in regiments, put them in Russian towns and forget about them


I wasn't asking about how to handle them just yet, just a) how many Security Sections they really should have at start of Barbarossa games and b) why as they are at the moment starting with out any Security Sections in most and why the 3 Orange ones in AGM are so differently composed?

(in reply to AlexSF)
Post #: 3
RE: German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocat... - 9/20/2018 3:20:09 PM   
chaos45

 

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Joined: 1/22/2001
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Real world/time equipment in many german divisions in Barbarossa was often quite different from what "standard" equipment should be.

Many divisions had slightly different organizations even though being the same kind of division. I would guess the team looked into Askey's new book that has exact details of what each division actually had in Jun 1941.

(in reply to Saulust)
Post #: 4
RE: German Sicherungs (Security) Division troop allocat... - 9/20/2018 4:50:39 PM   
Saulust

 

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Joined: 8/25/2018
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Yes chaos45 I understand that TOE is idialic not real world actual, however even at 108 Security Sections per SD to cover representing 6 usually assigned Btlns is only 18 per Btln each with 3 to 4 Companys of 3 platoons mostly I assume!

One other thing I have is a Russian map of Division dispositions at 22/June/1941 which also shows each SD with the same compliment of 6900 men and 99 guns & mortars, which I don't think is correct at all, so I've never gone with it, especially since I only get to 77 guns & mortars by my reconning.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any of the Askey volumns yet, they're on my list though to be sure.

< Message edited by Saulust -- 9/20/2018 4:51:16 PM >

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 5
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