Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/1/2018 4:35:40 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
House Rules
1)Game version 1.10.00 or 1.11.01 and VC290 GC file. I prefer 1.10.00, no matter what side I play. S-T chose Axis and 1.11.01, then updated to 1.11.03 because S-Ts steam does not allow free choice of versions
2)Full (hard) blizzard
3)no +1
4)No paradrops before 04.12.1941, no more than 2 during blizzard, the dropped units must not move on or next to a repaired rail hexagon
5)Game goes until the beginning of march 1942 by default, with an option to continue if both sides agree. Both sides should play as they would if they were going for the long run.
6)Axis side must not use the supply/fuel stocks present in Axis infantry army HQs at the beginning for supplying motorised units if we play under 1.10.00, I consider it to be ok under 1.11.01 So HQ switching is allowed, the huge stocks in infantry army HQs allow the Axis player to give any motorised unit full supplies for one turn independent of the location on the map. I suggested the rule because of the HQ BU nerf, I do not know how and when S-T used it but I think I would play with this again
7)Axis side must drop fuel to an isolated motorised division and move it in the same turn (because there is no MP penalty for airdrops on isolated units)
8)AAR allowed (I will not write one initially)
9)Standard CV calculation
10)Non random weather
11)Server game
12) Player information: I have played several GCs vs humans now , if you are seriously interested in a game I can give you a listing. Judging the own skill level is always difficult (understating it is unfair and on the other hand you do not know what you don't know, so overestimating one's knowledge can easily happen). On the scale beginner-below average-average-good-very good-expert I think I am a very good Axis player and a good to very good Soviet player. I have no problem playing a better opponent, since it motivates one to give everything, makes the game more tense and you learn more this way. In my games I have usually exchanged game knowledge with my opponents liberally, and I would like to do this for that game as well, but it is no "must". I can play 1 turn a week (early to mid July it can drop to 1 turn/1 1/2 week as I have exams there), and I will not quit the game depending on how it plays out unless both sides agree. Of course, there is never a guarantee that RL does not interfere. Pauses due to vacations/heavy workload may happen, but I will keep you informed by E-Mail. I usually have time to play a turn on friday/saturday.
I am more the "complex chess" player type as compared to the "historical player", and I will not complain if you use creative tactics/strategies. When playing the Soviets, you should not have a problem with optimised openings (of course, there is always the possibility that I screw up or of bad RNG rolls). Communication can take place in German or English.
13) Who I am looking for: Very good to expert opponent (good opponent also welcome when playing you want to play Axis under 1.10.00), 1 turn per week on average (no problem if there is a pause because of vacation/heavy work load/family etc.), I will also do
14) I personally do not care much about victory conditions. If you like, we can define some. My personal goal is to make the most of my strengths and weaknesses as a player and play in a way that would either keep me Berlin as long as possible, or lead to a capture as soon as possible if the game goes over the long run.
15) I am happy to play a mirror game under the same conditions running at the same time.
16) There is a severe HQBU cheat that allows to make them for no AP cost. I am willing to trust you on this depending on how good I know you already from the forums. If playing as Axis, I am willing to agree making screenshots that show APs/CR of arm HQs/arm&mot units and their supply states at the beginning and end of every turn as well as making notes of my AP use (+more screenshots if you believe they are necessary). That should allow you to verify whether I play it fair.
17) A change to a new game version always requires the agreement of both sides (dropped because of steam limitations)




< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/1/2018 5:04:56 PM >


_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/1/2018 4:44:19 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Introductory words

First of all some credits to give, first MichaelTs posts which I have always found very interesting, even though I disagree with many things I learned allot from Pelton's writings. Telemecus must be thanked for admin and air force hints (more relevant for the Axis side), HLYA for highlighting the importance of fatigue and for a part of the tactical deployment in the North (though I can claim independent though on the overall strategy).

The AAR will be comparatively short, and yes, also include a small statement on game balance :)
The game is already 2weeks old so I write from memory.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/3/2018 2:54:52 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 2
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/1/2018 5:03:16 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
1st turn


After Axis moves:
SparkleyTits negins with a good solid opening and air field bombing.



After Soviet moves:
In the North I fall one hexagon short of opening the pocket. What units can't be evacuated by rail are disbanded. I probably take more radical actions here than usual. Upon closer investigation, I am somewhat disappointed about the morale and experience rolls of the infantry divisions, of course this is a subjective impression.
The overall strategy will be hard defense in the North with the goal to hold Leningrad, while running quickly in the Center and in the South. The strategy is to defend what is important for long term survival with determination, while giving up resources of low or mid importance, minimising losses due to pockets and the time when Soviets suffer extra losses from combat (until T11 I think). The concept somewhat resembles what is called "all or nothing armor" for ships.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/1/2018 5:05:23 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 3
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/1/2018 5:18:23 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
2nd turn


After Soviet moves
I have no screenshot after the Axis moves for some reason.
On the field of unit placement, I make mistakes in the Pskov area, especially for the hexagons West and Northwest of the city, which will become apparent in the next part of the AAR.

In the area Southwest from Riga, encircled units have the option to dislocate Axis FBDs, HQs and airbases while destroying 2 repaired rail hexagons. As I am interested in fighting an Axis player with optimised rail repair, I do not pull the option and only replace a fighter base, which nets some nice losses. Together with air field bombing and missions to fatigue the fighters, 80 Axis fighter aircraft are destroyed. Especially the pilots of the Soviet strategic recon branch extinguish themselves by luring the Axis pilots into a pursuit and subsequent crash from fatigue for no losses to the VVS.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/1/2018 5:33:07 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 4
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/1/2018 10:10:46 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
3rd turn


After Axis moves
Last turn I placed a little too much strength to the hexagons east of Pskov and too little to the two hexagons West and Northwest. Of the 3 divisions guarding the hex west of Pskov, the weekest one retreats Norrtheast and this allows S-T to hasty attack over the river before moving an SS division there, the map shows the situation after the successful counterattack.


After Soviet moves
The defense at Pskov is strengthened. The necessary counterattack and the need to build fortifications limtis the amount of untis which can be placed in reserve mode. In the Center I await the Axis and in the South the running continues.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/1/2018 10:12:22 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 5
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/2/2018 4:09:18 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3341
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline
Love to catch a game at the beginning.

Questions -

House Rules
1)Game version 1.10.00 or 1.11.01 and VC290 GC file. I prefer 1.10.00, no matter what side I play. S-T chose Axis and 1.11.01, then updated to 1.11.03 because S-Ts steam does not allow free choice of versions
2)Full (hard) blizzard
3)no +1
4)No paradrops before 4.12.1941], no more than 2 during blizzard, the dropped units must not move on or next to a repaired rail hexagon

DO you mean 1942?

No sudden death but bitter end? Correct? I am curious your thoughts of stopping the German onslaught before the Volga / Astrakhan. You are not burning units to interdict enemy Moto or Panz. I have not seen a game where the Reds get to Berlin when the enemy penetrates so far. I am interested in your thoughts where you have to stop them to have a chance at Berlin.

Good luck!



< Message edited by topeverest -- 9/2/2018 4:10:11 AM >


_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 6
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/2/2018 1:47:29 PM   
wkuh

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/16/2017
Status: offline
Well done portrayal, thanks. Will observe with interest. Good luck to both players.



Bill

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 7
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/2/2018 5:02:54 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3069
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist




This defense looks familiar ;-)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 9/3/2018 2:15:12 PM >


_____________________________

Space we can recover; time never

Napoleon

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 8
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 8:44:26 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline
The defence of Leningrad starts and ends one hex to the NORTHWEST of Pskov ;)

I wonder how did the Germans managed to herd only HQ units to Vilnius turn 1. It allows not to risk the connection to the main Bialystok pocket should a routed unit recuperate. Is there a 100% effective method of doing so, or was that a lucky turn of events?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 9
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 9:12:57 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
@topeverest&swkuh: Thanks for the kind words. No, we mean 04.12.1941, the start of the blizzard. A limited amount of paradrops with tactical goals only (no railway cutting) is allowed. The Soviets conducted a few minor air drops during the winter counter offensive.
We play the VC 290. This means there is no forced game end when the Axis side captures 260VPs, so the Soviets have more space to give. The bitter end system has its appeals, but for me the final goal in the game would be to reach Berlin ASAP (if at all). Imagine that the outcome of WW2 is decided by accountants calculating VP ratios.
On the burning of Axis MPs, I will comment later.

@HLYA: See my second post? If you don't mind, please edit your reply, because such huge quotes disrupt the appearance of the AAR, especially as I use multiple images per post.

@Marauder: Indeed, an unfortunate miscalculation from my side, which snowballed into bigger, but not uncontrollable problems later.
About the herding of HQ units to Vilnius, my memory is that you can keep Vilnius combat unit free 50% of all attempts, but I did never try to enforce it, as it had little value for my opening. If you look at the screenshot "after Soviet moves", you can see that there was a combat unit there in this game, unfortunately still routed. After thinking about it, maybe it could speed up the infantry movement. If you want to try this, there might be HQs and airbases which like to displace to Vilnius, so you can push them first there, before a combat unit can rout this way.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/3/2018 9:37:29 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to MarauderPL)
Post #: 10
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 9:36:21 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
4th turn


After Axis moves:
S-T continues his attacks at Pskov, achieving an annoying break in into my defence. Elsewhere the Axis crawls East, hampered by a lack of supplies.


After Soviet moves
I strengthen the defense at Pskov as much as possible, at this time still hoping thy I can create a defense line at the Plyussa.


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 11
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 9:53:14 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Turn 5


After Axis moves
S-T crosses the river between the lake Pskov and lake Peipus in the North while attempting a breakthrough at Pskov. I weakened the crossing there last turn in favour of the immediate Pskov front, for some reason not expecting him to have infantry to cross there. With hindsight I wonder why I thought this. However, the enemy operations falls short to encircle the Soviet forces.
Not much of significance happening in the Center and in the South.


After Soviet moves
General Armii Zhukov is tasked with an attack on the motorised division blocking the retreat. The link below shows authentic footage of the moment when he enters the meeting room at Leningrad to present the results to the STAVKA representative for the Northern Direction, even though Western press overstates his rank an position.
General Zhukov


In the Center and the South, Soviet forces follow the official guidelines for proper frontline maintenance, which call for converting back enemy hexagons.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/3/2018 12:45:38 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 12
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 11:25:03 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Some theory

Have a look at the diagram below. In an abstracted way, it shows how I view the relation between force ratio, the enemy advance rate and the losses suffered by the Soviets in 1941. The force ratio includes all important factors, beginning with raw CV over leadership to the logistical situation. The idea now is to only accept a fight under the force ratio marked green, while denying it under the force ratio marked red. In other words, either put up a very strong resistance or none, everything between will cause high losses while delaying the Axis insignificantly.



quote:

You are not burning units to interdict enemy Moto or Panz. I have not seen a game where the Reds get to Berlin when the enemy penetrates so far. I am interested in your thoughts where you have to stop them to have a chance at Berlin.

I have read of this idea repeatedly, and would like to add a few thoughts to it. In general (exceptions exist) I am sceptical about the idea of burning units to delay the enemy in the early turns of 1941 and later for a number of reasons:
1) I doubt the importance of the early advance rates and measure success of the 1941 campaign in the end result. Any action must be justified by its effect on the latter.
2) Holding a certain city that you know will fall for a few extra turns is not worth it when it includes the risk of losing units. The city of Kiev for example produces 800 men per turn in 1941. Holding it 2 or 3 turns longer does not justify the loss of even a rifle brigade with 5k manpower.
3) Attacking and or/encircling a unit costs the Axis resources during the early turns, but the cost increases the stronger the Red Army becomes and the more East the front moves, as Axis supply deteriorates due to the rail modifier and the distance to the rail.
4) Similiar to 3), the resistance a Soviet unit can put up grows with time. Why should I accept combat during the early turns, with under-supplied, poorly lead units and low unit density?
5) An argument often brought forward is the defence of industry. I however believe that the Soviets need less than the ususally stated amount of industry (usually 200HI and 300arms). I hope to some day finish the report on this.
6) The defence strategy must no be misunderstood as a flight before the fight. It is about shuffling resources to a certain area (it can be Leningrad or a different area) to get into the green zone (see above) for each front. Depending on the overall situation, a total resistance can begin in the Center and the South.
7) When reading AARs involving a good Axis player, you can often see the following pattern: The Soviet player fights forward, initially delays the Axis, but burns a high amount of units in the process. When the breaking point for losses is reached, the Axis player takes the remaining territory easily, because no more resistance is possible. The idea here is to cede the territory you will lose anyway, while avoiding loss of units, so you can form a strong defence later. In short, loss of the Army will cause the loss of the land, the army can still exist after losing a good part of the real estate.
8) Preserving as much of the Army as possible gets you quicker to the point where you can begin the attrition campaign against the Axis manpower. The losses and loss ratio will become the batter the greater the ratio Soviet strength:Axis strength.

This was both a reply on your question and a general thought I wanted to present anyway.
Nothing of this is a law of nature, but I like to have a framework of theories which helps me to access the infinitely different situations on the battlefield.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/3/2018 12:57:12 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 13
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 12:11:49 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 3464
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarauderPL
I wonder how did the Germans managed to herd only HQ units to Vilnius turn 1. It allows not to risk the connection to the main Bialystok pocket should a routed unit recuperate. Is there a 100% effective method of doing so, or was that a lucky turn of events?


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
@Marauder:...About the herding of HQ units to Vilnius, my memory is that you can keep Vilnius combat unit free 50% of all attempts, but I did never try to enforce it, as it had little value for my opening. If you look at the screenshot "after Soviet moves", you can see that there was a combat unit there in this game, unfortunately still routed. After thinking about it, maybe it could speed up the infantry movement. If you want to try this, there might be HQs and airbases which like to displace to Vilnius, so you can push them first there, before a combat unit can rout this way.


This has often happened to me - too often to be a coincidence. It was not deliberate on my part but may be a consequence of the opening play I use. I guess if you plan for it you can at least sequence your moves to maximise the chances of it happening.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 14
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 12:19:23 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 3464
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
The link below shows authentic footage of the moment when he enters the meeting room at Leningrad to present the results to the STAVKA representative for the Northern Direction, even though Western press overstates his rank an position.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DxClgfEhsU


Please link many more videos like this - I am looking for material to re-subtitle and parody especially!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/3/2018 12:22:33 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 15
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 12:20:52 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 3464
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Some theory


+1 like and please post much more theory!

I love doing graphs with no scales too!

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 16
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 1:04:22 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
@Telemecus: The movie the scene is taken from, The Death of Stalin, requires a certain humour, but if it suits you it is simply great.
Somewhere it has been banned, pratially because Zhukov was deemed to be described foolish. Why is beyond me, for he is the most "badass" character in the film!

Yes, I like developing theories. Sometimes they are even useful.

My teachers in school did not like them, I wonder why :D

_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 17
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 1:20:30 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 3464
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

@Telemecus: The movie the scene is taken from, The Death of Stalin, requires a certain humour, but if it suits you it is simply great.
Somewhere it has been banned, pratially because Zhukov was deemed to be described foolish. Why is beyond me, for he is the most "badass" character in the film!

Yes, I like developing theories. Sometimes they are even useful.

My teachers in school did not like them, I wonder why :D


Anything by Armando Iannucci is worth seeing - but the British sense of humour is often misunderstood.

Teachers never like students smarter than them!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ag61WDlPJU

As the French civil servant said "Yes it may work very well in practice, but does it work in theory?"

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 18
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 1:45:05 PM   
AFV


Posts: 435
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline
I am curious- with all the talk of the German side being overpowered, why no +1 attack for the Soviet in this game?

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 19
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 1:49:28 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 3464
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV
I am curious- with all the talk of the German side being overpowered, why no +1 attack for the Soviet in this game?


Because the majority is silent

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 20
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/3/2018 2:52:08 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
I had a game before with exactly the same settings and started under the same version, and never felt under strong pressure. I like close games and need the tension to be fully motivated, so I did not suggest the +1 rule.

Edit: Thanks for editing HLYA. In the credits I forgot another thing I have to credit you for, which is drowning the Axis air force in Soviet fighters flying ground support.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/3/2018 4:20:46 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 21
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/5/2018 12:14:42 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 836
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
Yes turn 5 was very close to a nice jugular hit but I unfortunately was not able to make a low morale unit rout throughout multiple battles as I was hoping so no pocket was acheived

I decided to go for a rather desperate compromise by filling my MOT up with fuel in hopes of it becoming a target that lessens any concentrated defence next turn or allowing it to seek opportunities if left alone

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 22
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/21/2018 10:10:42 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Turn 6

After Axis moves
Axis forces catch up in the North, the retreat left the Panzers without infantry support or a turn. The layered defense set up last turn accomplished its tast, the Axis forces are not adjacent to the Luga, allowing reinforcements to fortify it.
In the center, Axis mobile forces remain mostly inactive for lack of fuel. Here the logistics nerf of 1.11.01 plays into the Soviet player's hands, as under older versions, the Axis side could have done multiple HQ BUs and support operations way deeper than now. Still, as house rules allow use of Army HQ stocks, a deep raid must always be expected.
In the South, most Axis mobile forces commit to a raid on Charkov, which still has all heavy and armaments industry. I had offered it as a sacrify last turn because I am not worried about industry unless numbers fall really low, but any Axis mobile forces attempting to raid it will be far from supply. The forces participating in the industry are now beyond supply range and will not receive much T6-T8 and partially T9.
If one defends the South, I consider it to be better to defend "South to North", making the Axis forces turn North. Supply there is worse and defending against an attack approaching North of Dnepropetrovsk is easier than one coming along South of Zaporoshje, for the terrain is more favourable with rivers, swamps and light woods. At the same time, the position is not at threat from being outflanked from the AGC, and if AGS tries to outflank it taking the Northern route (as partially happened here), logistics are difficult.


After Soviet moves
The cavalry division evacuating over the Baltic Sea is hit by Finnish air interdiction. Units loaded on ships are always especially vulnerable to interdiction, as such losses are high. The poor horses.
Counterattacks where possible to farm morale and guards.



< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/21/2018 10:11:19 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 23
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/21/2018 10:28:57 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Turn 7

After Axis moves
Axis forces push towards the Luga and gain a bridgehead. Angry with myself for forgetting to assign units to the same HQ here, and also for not setting reserves in order to help digging. From retro-perspective, the division between digging and reserve placement was slightly off, should have given a bit more weight towards reserves throughout the game. Something to improve for the future. S-T has done well with grinding in the North, the Soviet side constantly struggled fortifying new positions quicker than the old ones are taken out.
In the center, Axis forces rush Tula, which is full of industry. Although I did not expect an attack until one turn later, Tula being not guarded was no coincidence or oversight. Industry levels are still above what is needed even after writing off ZOC locked cities.


After Soviet moves
The bridgehead in the North is sealed off by some of the strongest Soviet units on map. The motorised units spent the last turns resting and have sucked up most AFV replacements available to the Red Army, which are channelled to high morale units by refit settings. A problem in this game has been the lack of the usual 1-3 50-54 morale motorised/tank divisions, so CV concentration is not as high as desirable.
Fort levels along the luga are not yet lvl 2, but construction value of the units there sufficient to increase the value considerable during the logistics phase, for they are supported by plenty of sappers and RR construction brigades, and Soviet civilians help as well.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/21/2018 10:29:19 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 24
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/21/2018 10:39:49 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
Concluding remarks
OKH decides to resign after during T8, as such the game ends here and concluding comments will be given.

Support unit creation
The only support units built to this point are sapper regiments. They are very good units, because
-as infantry, they excel in every terrain, while AFV get a malus in dense terrain
-for early war support units, they have good CV
-they are cheap in terms of build cost compared to artillery, lowering arm needs (that assumes the key stat for this is build cost, not ammo use), and only slightly more expensive than standard infantry squads
-they help digging
-they are able to reduce enemy fortifications, a straightforward way to reduce enemy CV
-they can later be attached to corps formations
-they seem slightly better amred than standard infantry squad=better investment of manpower

As such, 24 were created when the Soviet side gets the influx of extra AP for the arrival of a new front in T4, with more following to use excess AP.
They are left in frozen Military District HQs until they have grown to their national morale level of 50, which takes 3-5 turns. From there, they can be transferred for free to other HQs when they are ready.

Losses
The strategy of running away has preserved the strength of the Red Army to that point, with losses being low for that turn (less than 10 divisions lost to pockets after T1) with the OOB approaching 4 million men.*

*when comparing games from before 1.11.01 and after, keep in mind that the Soviet OOB on T1 declined by 400-500k men due to scenario changes, while the artillery number increased by a few 1000 guns.

Game balance
Lately, there has been much debate regarding balance as of 1.11.01 and 1.11.03. I have retired from that debate, but as a comment on it has been promised in the beginning of the AAR, here it is:
I have found this game to be fun and balanced. In T8, the game can go to every direction of course, but extrapolating from AARs, I believe the Soviet side has a good chance holding at least one of the two major objectives Leningrad and Moscow and, independent of this, Rostov, while maintaining a strong army. The Air Force, especially the tac air arm, was developing very well, which gives the Soviet Union a fair chance of hitting back during the blizzard and to begin the never ending attrition campaign against the German manpower.

Note I measure game balance based on the old VC290 VPs campaign, especially if and when the Soviets will capture Berlin. If you base your opinion on the accountant-scenario bitter end, results can differ. In my reasoning I also assume that in most AARs one can use for reference for games going to 1942 onwards, the Soviet player does not use one or more thing that would favour him (I can comment on this if there is interest).

One can throw in that this particular game is not representative or that one side did not use its full potential.
Points that imply the game shows the Axis weaker than they are:
-Axis opening was good, but compared to the best in this regard I have seen so far, it pockets 32 command points less T1 and T2 from a quick counting assuming the Soviet player evacuates everything not pocketed or locked T1
-I think S-T prefers efficiency over maximum result in terms of micromanagement
-one can debate if the deep industry raids were worth it-opinions will differ here I guess
-the Axis side was allowed to use the infantry army HQ stocks, I do not know if it did so, but in any case, resources to prepare for this had to be spent by the Soviets.
-the play can be usually improved by investing more time in a turn, with diminishing return of course


Points that imply the game shows the Soviets weaker than the are:
-the Axis player has a 2:1 or 3:1 advantage in multiplayer experience for the scenario in question here (me as Soviets, S-T as Axis)
-there is micromanagement/optimisation potential I am aware off, but did not use due to laziness and/or time pressure. Examples are air transfer of aircraft even for small distances, very detailed tracking of Axis mobile forces by individual unit name or movement point/fuel estimations for enemy mobile formations, relying to gut feeling instead
-I did not use iterative unit placement, meaning that the defence is set-up on a planning map and then, in imagination, an enemy attack is simulated to iron out possible weak spots. I consider this to be a useful, but also very exhausting and time demanding one. I was not able to summon up the determination for this yet
-more general, play can be improved by investing extra time an thought
-I typically have a high mistake rate. In school, it was common that people to whom I explained physics/math/chemistry stuff before the exam got better marks, because I copied numbers wrong from the task sheet. It an inherent weakness of my thinking and leads to high mistake rate in WitE as well, even though I in theory know better. Someone more structured and reliable in his thinking should be able to squeeze out more

A reasonable doubt remains, for the possibilities for strategies in this game is sheer endless, but from the points above, I do not think that this one is an outlier.

Note that the above comments are under the impresssion of 1.11.01 scenario data, but most turns were under 1.11.03.

If the major issue is the over-the-top Axis opening, it can be easily cured by a house rule.
I repeat my comment from elsewhere that a small Soviet buff is in order, but it has to be a careful one.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 9/21/2018 11:56:33 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 25
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/23/2018 1:42:44 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 836
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
I have not been making sappers recently as they change to battalions later on now so been playing with other SU and AP usage instead

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 26
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/23/2018 1:43:54 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 836
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
I used 2 infantry armies for their fuel stocks

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 27
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/23/2018 2:47:27 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 1839
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
True, sapper spam only possible because we started with 1.11.01 scenario data.

And thanks for the Information!

_____________________________


(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 28
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/24/2018 7:47:09 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline
SparkleyT, could you elaborate on what made you surrender? I feel like a total noob not seeing why the Germans have lost this game. Both Leningrad and Moscow are within your grasp, its only turn 7 that we are seeing. Its surely not going to be easy, its EvK after all, but seemingly within the realm of possibility. Of course, it was your decision and I respect it, just wanted to know your train of thought and/or criteria for surrender.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 29
RE: EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) - 9/24/2018 8:24:12 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 836
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline
All very valid points Marauder

We ended the game a little while ago now as I was having some issues with WitE itself so I had to recoup and regroup unfortunately
I do actually heavily regret ending the game instead of simply taking a break as I find myself having reoccuring thoughts of "I would of liked to take it back up now"
It would of been a very intense winter followed by an nail biting 42 both of which I enjoy but hey ho it's too late now and I can't take it back unfortunately

Apologies again to EvK for my poor sport

(in reply to MarauderPL)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> EvK (STAVKA) vs. SparkleyTits (OKH) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.236