Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

New from Tiller

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> New from Tiller Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
New from Tiller - 8/23/2018 5:07:16 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1987
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
Musket & Pike:

The Seven Years War

John Tiller Software is pleased to announce the release of The Seven Years War, the latest title in the Musket & Pike series. The Seven Years War highlights the European battles of this global war, featuring not only the battles of Frederick at places like Rossbach, Leuthen and Zorndorf, but also Ferdinand's battles such as Minden and Bergen.

Seven Years War includes 78 scenarios ranging in size from small actions to full engagements. Scenarios are able to be played as stand alone actions or in the campaign engine.





< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 8/23/2018 5:10:33 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New from Tiller - 8/23/2018 5:28:54 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline
Greetings Yogi the Great,
Thanks for posting. Nice to see new modifications to infantry: no attack columns (march columns only and gutted defensive fire if attacked), no forming square(3rd rank can about face while rank 1 & 2 face forward for defense against cavalry charges), no skirmishers, virtually no light infantry (only Austrian Grenzer units). Looks to be really good representation of the period for linear tactics.
See the PDF:Designer Notes
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/MusketAndPike/SevenYearsWar.html

Definite MUST HAVE!

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 2
RE: New from Tiller - 8/23/2018 7:18:37 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline
Greetings to All,
Checked with JTS support and there is no 3D View for terrain or 3D miniatures.

3D might be released as patch some day or perhaps someone will mod

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 3
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 12:22:21 AM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline
3D has to be really well done to be worthwhile. A lot of original Tiller 3D graphics are deplorable. I use mods for both ACW and Nap campaigns. But the game still has to allow for 3D in order to mod the 3D I imagine. Don't know if 3D capability is coded into 7YW.

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 4
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 12:37:27 AM   
TheGrayMouser

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 7/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings to All,
Checked with JTS support and there is no 3D View for terrain or 3D miniatures.

3D might be released as patch some day or perhaps someone will mod



Thats too bad but wont stop a purchase from me. Its part of the "newer" P&S engine which was released without 3d but it was added in a later patch.. Assuming the code is there it likely would just need the graphic BMP "sheets" for the terrain ( likely easy to cull from other tiller games, then of course the units which would require someone with some degree of skill..) Likely the most pain in the ass part would be assigning the graphical flag# in all of the OOB's for every unit!!
Still enjoy Matrix own Horse and Musket engine... too bad the developer never followed thru on newer titles. Its becoming a little of an eyesore on newer monitors but the game paly is rock solid.


Oh, appears there are some hints of the next Tiller P&S game, perhaps, in the development notes hehe...

< Message edited by TheGrayMouser -- 8/24/2018 12:38:19 AM >

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 5
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 3:58:34 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
i like those tiller 3d graphics, i think i only ever like to play the tiller games with the 3d miniatures graphics - without this, the feel of the period it is set in is lost a little and everything looks like just a ww2/cold war setting

(in reply to TheGrayMouser)
Post #: 6
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 5:52:35 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22005
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
while i have always said, eye candy is just that, sometimes a plain old looking hex war game now days for me, does look like a throw back 20 years, it would have to have a epic AI and be priced well with plenty in it, for me to take the plunge so i guess it's again each to there own and how they like to play and look at the game in question, not a fan, but also not really played many of his either, the very bland and nothing apart from nato counters kind of puts me off, still not knowing and never wanting to learn nato ones either.

i prefer what both Jason Petho & Crossroads are doing on this scale and engine etc which includes the 3d none nato parts

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/24/2018 6:40:12 AM >

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 7
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 1:31:50 PM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

3D has to be really well done to be worthwhile. A lot of original Tiller 3D graphics are deplorable. I use mods for both ACW and Nap campaigns. But the game still has to allow for 3D in order to mod the 3D I imagine. Don't know if 3D capability is coded into 7YW.


It is - just add in the same 3D files from one of the Napoleonic or the Renaissance title, and you can mod from there. I'm on the credits in 3 different places including the graphics areas - and just did it. I had the suspicion it probably was going to work because it happened exactly that same way when I was doing some work on their Squad Battles series not too long ago.

(in reply to Capitaine)
Post #: 8
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 1:42:14 PM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

i like those tiller 3d graphics, i think i only ever like to play the tiller games with the 3d miniatures graphics - without this, the feel of the period it is set in is lost a little and everything looks like just a ww2/cold war setting


You haven't seen my Cold War stuff, then... :D (kidding -well sorta -- I mean I go for a different look in those and re-did the recent Gold updates because frankly, they looked too samey to me (which I guess is a little ironic).
- the dual artist amalgamation stuff I don't think worked as well, but they wanted to use some of the work that they had already paid for - it won't be exactly the same as that going forward in the series, also keep in mind, that in a perfect world there'd be enough space on the counter to pull off a decent looking silhouette (maybe something like the GMT or older SPI Civil War titles - but with the limited amount of pixels I wouldn't even bother trying to. Also ideally, if someone says get me another set of larger 2D graphics (not saying that it will ever be asked for -- but, it can be done on my end pretty easily).

... anyways more to the point, all of our 3D artists pretty much dropped the ball. I wasn't even supposed to have done any of the artwork myself, although it did not work that way. If I had had more time to work with Joe on this, I am pretty sure I could have pulled it off. I was going to go for a little larger scale than they were previously using -- like say maybe comparable to 25mm figures on a table whereas before in other titles by JTS it might have looked like 10mm or smaller. And that was really all about the detail and resizing I was able to get. I will have to see if I have an image of some of the figures somewhere and post them. Personally in actual miniatures I am probably more of a 6mm player... but that doesn't really count when talking about computer graphics.

I sort of joke that I might have to learn to work within 3D (and who knows, but maybe it will happen) ... not for awhile though, as they got me doing other things (other than art or graphics coordination too).

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 9
RE: New from Tiller - 8/24/2018 2:10:46 PM   
DonCzirr


Posts: 449
Joined: 10/3/2014
Status: online
I would like to see the 3D work continue.

Usually - I am a die hard NATO counter fan but for Civil War and earlier I like 3d as it gives a table top miniatures feel.

I have Campaign Leipzig with mods from Philippe at Bay - and it is a most pleasing visual experience for me.

I also like the zoomed out view with the NATO counters for broader planning.

_____________________________

Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 10
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 12:01:52 AM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline
I would too, however we did not find a reliable 3d artist; the last one we were on literally only sent over about 3 files and then disappeared for months.
I will say that they were pretty good files - but not anywhere near enough to build anything with and sell it.

Ok - why do I only have 3 posts? I couldn't figure out the password for my other 2 accounts (trauth116, and I think trauth), and when I merged accounts last night ... this was the one the system kept :D (1st World problem).

For what it is worth - I agree with you - it does give that feel (miniatures), and I think the overall diversity is pretty important (of course, it still didn't happen this time).

I imagine one could come up with something pretty good by using the 3d material that exists and fits (which extends to beyond JTS' own material.).

(in reply to DonCzirr)
Post #: 11
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 2:32:20 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
thanks for your replies - you know i was looking at the files for campaign leipzig and campaign waterloo yesterday and i see that the graphics for units is some i could do in photoshop- i do digital art, i just dont have the time at the present, -however the little pixel graphics from those existing tiller games would not be hard to alter surely, they are so low in pixel count - i might try out making some though later today if i have a moment

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 12
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 4:12:41 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
here is a little go i had at making prussian infantry - at least one tiny fraction of the pictures






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Agathosdaimon -- 8/25/2018 4:15:37 AM >

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 13
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 6:14:31 AM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline
Looks like you got the concept down pretty well. I'll have to post what I had elsewhere, as my account I guess has not been active long enough or something.

Basically as a Graphics Coordinator, it was my responsibility to re-size what I was provided. Keep in mind I only got artist credit because I had to do repair work - at any rate I did some tests on some of the material that I had been given running it out of Tiller's other title in that same series at the time, just to see how it would look, especially when compared to what else was out there.

The artist I was working with, at that point was Joe Amoral, their long time artist, and one of the things I encouraged Joe was not to worry too much about doing them small - getting them small was my problem to worry about.

What you got above looks pretty similar to what we had ... although a lot of what was hoped to be done was to work with various 1:72 scale figures (not even all necessarily exactly from the period -but ones that you could adapt to it).

The figures are one thing, the terrain, that is another ... see the ultimate goal is to take advantage of 24 bit graphics (ideally 32 bit with a transparency layer but the 24 bit anyone can add right now).

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 14
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 6:25:19 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 22005
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
(trauth116, and I think trauth)

if you had contacted support, they could have sorted out your accounts and made them all into one, and gave you your password back even

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 15
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 8:30:30 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sdc

Looks like you got the concept down pretty well. I'll have to post what I had elsewhere, as my account I guess has not been active long enough or something.

Basically as a Graphics Coordinator, it was my responsibility to re-size what I was provided. Keep in mind I only got artist credit because I had to do repair work - at any rate I did some tests on some of the material that I had been given running it out of Tiller's other title in that same series at the time, just to see how it would look, especially when compared to what else was out there.

The artist I was working with, at that point was Joe Amoral, their long time artist, and one of the things I encouraged Joe was not to worry too much about doing them small - getting them small was my problem to worry about.

What you got above looks pretty similar to what we had ... although a lot of what was hoped to be done was to work with various 1:72 scale figures (not even all necessarily exactly from the period -but ones that you could adapt to it).

The figures are one thing, the terrain, that is another ... see the ultimate goal is to take advantage of 24 bit graphics (ideally 32 bit with a transparency layer but the 24 bit anyone can add right now).



thats interesting, that the initial pieces being done at a higher scale - i am not familiar though with what the 24bit graphics capability means or would mean though, i would think that you could just use the terrain from the napoleonic games already.

so are you still working on any of this?

it was fun to make the little image i did - tempted to do more, but there is alot to do and doing all the multiple sides

what scale were the images being made initially at?

< Message edited by Agathosdaimon -- 8/25/2018 8:31:05 AM >

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 16
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 5:40:58 PM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline
Greetings Agathosdaimon,
Nice Prussian infantry minis

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 17
RE: New from Tiller - 8/25/2018 11:50:45 PM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings Agathosdaimon,
Nice Prussian infantry minis


thanks Rommel222



I myself could certainly make alot of those little pixel units in my spare time, though i dont know whether there is a quicker process to it - or whether there is some specify way i have to do it - basically i just could go of the templates of figures from Waterloo and make SYW equivalents, but i dont know in what order that is supposed to be done, - it would take a long while given all the armies in the SYW - if they are all covered in the game (i havent got it yet but will when i have money available)

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 18
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 1:14:33 AM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

quote:

ORIGINAL: sdc

Looks like you got the concept down pretty well. I'll have to post what I had elsewhere, as my account I guess has not been active long enough or something.

Basically as a Graphics Coordinator, it was my responsibility to re-size what I was provided. Keep in mind I only got artist credit because I had to do repair work - at any rate I did some tests on some of the material that I had been given running it out of Tiller's other title in that same series at the time, just to see how it would look, especially when compared to what else was out there.

The artist I was working with, at that point was Joe Amoral, their long time artist, and one of the things I encouraged Joe was not to worry too much about doing them small - getting them small was my problem to worry about.

What you got above looks pretty similar to what we had ... although a lot of what was hoped to be done was to work with various 1:72 scale figures (not even all necessarily exactly from the period -but ones that you could adapt to it).

The figures are one thing, the terrain, that is another ... see the ultimate goal is to take advantage of 24 bit graphics (ideally 32 bit with a transparency layer but the 24 bit anyone can add right now).



thats interesting, that the initial pieces being done at a higher scale - i am not familiar though with what the 24bit graphics capability means or would mean though, i would think that you could just use the terrain from the napoleonic games already.

so are you still working on any of this?

it was fun to make the little image i did - tempted to do more, but there is alot to do and doing all the multiple sides

what scale were the images being made initially at?



Put simply the difference between 8 bit and 24 bit graphics just means the numbers of colours that you can use. Off the top of my head 24 bit is like 16.6 million different options, and 8 bit is a lot less.

Scale? Technically speaking - at whatever the artist sent them to me. I then was going to go with a scale that showed more detail than what they normally had. Roughly speaking, was I was maybe going to go with 4 guys standing shooting as line (what would fit in the hex basically), for skirmishers (there are not many- but there are a few) - maybe 2 guys - one kneeling firing, and the other with a gun sort of at ready but not firing. Cav probably 2 figures per hex, and column guys in marching order.

One thing you want to be wary of -is if you ever branch out to the Civil War series -the facing between the two engines are different. The one you are working at - front is to the hex spine in front of where you are pointing, conversely in the other engine (Civil War one) it is the hex side instead.


I do appreciate the advice about the merging accounts - I never did post here all that often anyways, but I imagine I just put in the time, and eventually it happens. I was making the comment more out of sensitivity of -who is this dude with the 3 posts is all :).

I'm not actively working on this -but I can get a map file to work in there. They have me on to other, non-art projects there for awhile. I'll try to make the 3d happen for the third title in the series (I'll be doing more than art for that one). I might get a set of map files, and some place holders for the units. The complication is in the assigning of images to the oob files. I did some work to see about resizing and where the best place to add an image in the master file was going to be, but that is about as far as I got before the decision to bring another artist onboard was made.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 19
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 1:19:02 AM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings Agathosdaimon,
Nice Prussian infantry minis


thanks Rommel222



I myself could certainly make alot of those little pixel units in my spare time, though i dont know whether there is a quicker process to it - or whether there is some specify way i have to do it - basically i just could go of the templates of figures from Waterloo and make SYW equivalents, but i dont know in what order that is supposed to be done, - it would take a long while given all the armies in the SYW - if they are all covered in the game (i havent got it yet but will when i have money available)


Here's the beauty of what you were saying -- there is no order, as the artist you just do them, and a graphics coordinator is responsible for slotting them on to the file, and getting it over to the scenario designer (with labeling as to what unit is what) so they can change around their OOB files to match up. That is, if done in the production process.

What you are doing now, is the entire process yourself. If that is something that you are interested in, drop the support email a line and tell them I sent you over. I assume he has an account here, he does everywhere - Rich Hamilton -usually goes by Rahamy on messageboards.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 20
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 8:07:15 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
thanks SDC - i did message jts on this and rich replied i have linked this thread also - i messaged jts querying about the 3d before all this conversation here started, so hence some duplication has occurred.
when you say that the artist would just do them and the development team does the rest - does this mean the artist was just doing concepts of the units and not doing each version of each unit facing each specific direction? if so, i am not sure why the artist would be needed beause all the unit details needed can already be amply found in books and online, or am i understanding this wrong?

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 21
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 11:39:56 AM   
sdc

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/24/2018
Status: offline
By development team, it means 'Graphics Coordinator' - or in this case that was me.

What I got back was I got back each of the 6 facings needed for the game files. In my specific case, I wasn't bothered about getting big sized images back then I would resize them. Obviously what you have posted are a lot closer (I'd go so far as to say those are usable at the size you did them) -and that is how you prefer to work -then that is fine too.

I'd probably suggest doing all 6 facings in a strip and only working on them one strip at a time. This would be so that the exact unit could be labelled and communicated to the scenario designer -so that he could update his OOB file. The OOB file has a spot where it is assigned a number on the unit files to point to a row of graphics.

We'd also check to make sure that none of the background colour (think green screen like effect)shows through on the map.

But, no --- the files sent over by an artist are the ones that are used.

I think what happened was that I was giving a pretty broad answer, and it was based upon the experience with a specific artist. I have to go find some screenshots of what I had been given, it will give a better idea of what I am talking about.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 22
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 12:13:04 PM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
okay cool, i like the idea of working on one strip at a time

i havent got the syw game so i dont know the full OOBs for each army and battle that are being used

(in reply to sdc)
Post #: 23
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 7:04:25 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1115
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline
The title is great, with a lot of battles and moving in a good size to be played relative fast without need a lot of time, changes compared with napoleonic series made the title a good tactical wargame for the period.

In the 3D... i really prefer over the "bigsoldierphilia" (a common disease in XVIII century ) the napoleonic aproximation with smaller soldiers but in more dense formations giving a true sensation of battalions-regiments and well, even in EAW serie i prefer tiny soldiers to but only is an incomplete mod for "French Indian War".

For example this is how look scottish in Peninsula title (still waiting the 2nd part hehehe).



Anyway a 3D is allways wellcome maybe not to play in 3D but as a faster way to revise your troops without excesive clicks.

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 24
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 7:19:14 PM   
berto


Posts: 18454
Joined: 3/13/2002
From: metro Chicago, Illinois, USA
Status: offline

I don't like the larger-scale miniatures look; I prefer the smaller (and more of them) soldiers look. The examples in the previous post look great!

_____________________________


(in reply to Hexagon)
Post #: 25
RE: New from Tiller - 8/26/2018 9:55:17 PM   
DonCzirr


Posts: 449
Joined: 10/3/2014
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


I don't like the larger-scale miniatures look; I prefer the smaller (and more of them) soldiers look. The examples in the previous post look great!



+1

_____________________________

Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern !

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100032812112896

(in reply to berto)
Post #: 26
RE: New from Tiller - 8/27/2018 12:57:18 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
okay col - i do prefer that look of more massed troops too honestly - one of my favorite titles is Campaign Leipzig and it has more units per hex too

(in reply to DonCzirr)
Post #: 27
RE: New from Tiller - 8/27/2018 5:40:17 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline
Here are some attempts i made done at the Leipzig game level







Attachment (2)

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 28
RE: New from Tiller - 8/27/2018 10:54:38 AM   
rommel222

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 9/21/2015
Status: offline
Greetings Agathosdaimon & Hexagon,
I appreciate the work you are doing with 3D minis though smaller units are a little harder on my 65+ old eyes.

Keep them coming

There is a JTS Seven Years War thread at grogheads on 3D minis:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22849.0

Here is a Spanish website (use translate in google) for JTS Seven Years War (like the smileys)
http://www.puntadelanza.net/Foro/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&p=507883


(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 29
RE: New from Tiller - 8/27/2018 11:23:35 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1011
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings Agathosdaimon & Hexagon,
I appreciate the work you are doing with 3D minis though smaller units are a little harder on my 65+ old eyes.

Keep them coming

There is a JTS Seven Years War thread at grogheads on 3D minis:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22849.0

Here is a Spanish website (use translate in google) for JTS Seven Years War (like the smileys)
http://www.puntadelanza.net/Foro/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&p=507883



thanks! as i said its fun to make these actually,
here are the images a little larger then if that helps?








Attachment (2)

(in reply to rommel222)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> New from Tiller Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.156