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RE: C4 T004

 
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RE: C4 T004 - 9/16/2018 3:43:21 PM   
thedoctorking


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In the center, our forces were reorganized into two fronts, Western and Reserve. Ultimately, Reserve will hold the northern flank of the land bridge while Western holds from Smolensk south. For now, Reserve is in reserve while Western presents a defense in depth across the region.

We considered a possible offensive, similar to the one on turn 2, but this time intended to isolate an entire Panzer Group. It would have required assigning a good general to one of Western Frontís armies, putting all the units in the region under his command, and then launching two attacks against German panzer regiments that both had to succeed. Then, exploitation units could have rolled through, displacing two German HQís and isolating all of the panzer group. The downsides were two-fold: first, if either attack failed, as in the previous example, a bunch of quite nice units would be left hanging in a dangerous position. Secondly, the HQBU was done last turn, so the units inside the pocket would still have plenty of movement factors to counterattack and isolate. For these reasons, we decided not to do the proposed attack, but for purposes of discussion, here is the plan:





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< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 9/16/2018 3:46:23 PM >

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RE: C4 T004 - 9/16/2018 3:47:48 PM   
thedoctorking


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We decided not to hold the land bridge strongly, preferring that the German armor expend its many movement points driving forward against limited resistance. The two positions on either side of the bridge are held by powerful units. They will, at least, require a deliberate attack to roust them, further slowing the German advance. Iím hoping that Iíve counted his movement factors effectively and the guys with the HQBU canít make it across the upper Dnepr in the Dorogobuzh area.

Other potential routes of advance for the fascist hordes are, in order of probability, north towards Velikie Luki and south across the bend of the Dnepr. In both cases, we have adopted a defense in depth approach and donít expect too much serious destruction in this area. My analysis of the positions of German armor has relieved a lot of my concern about this sector since it looks like most or all of 2nd Panzer Group has left Army Group Centerís AO entirely and is now active in Ukraine.






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RE: C4 T004 - 9/16/2018 3:49:18 PM   
thedoctorking


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In the northern Ukraine, 2nd Army is pushing quickly towards Kiev while two other infantry armies, 6th and 17th, work on clearing pockets and advance towards the lower Dnepr. Our response was to draw back in this region, leaving holding forces to prevent a quick capture of Kiev or a crossing of the Dnepr on turn 5. Most of our better units were sent to the southern Ukraine, which looks for now like the area where the Axis is making their main effort in this game.






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RE: C4 T004 - 9/16/2018 3:50:22 PM   
thedoctorking


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In the southern Ukraine, we gave ground before the large German Panzer concentration and built as strong a line as we could behind the Ingul. If the Germans did an HQBU in this region Ė there is a small collection of armored units sitting behind their front that didnít appear to move last turn Ė they could drive all the way to the outskirts of Dnepropetrovsk. This is the sort of thing that the Germans have tried on previous turns. A more sensible move, in my opinion, would be to try to pocket a portion of Southern Front by turning southwards. It is a lot of movement points across a major river and through 60 miles of enemy territory before even reaching the main line of resistance, though. Hopefully, as in the last couple of turns, my worst-case scenario will not come true.






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RE: C4 T004 - 9/16/2018 3:50:55 PM   
thedoctorking


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Total losses this turn were 143,813 Soviet to 20,964 Axis. In the air, it was 372 to 120, with only 17 of those losses being German fighters. The Axis has a new air commander who was significantly more cautious with his fighters than the previous incumbent, apparently. Total deployed numbers are 3,914,998 Soviet to 4,970,482 Axis, of which 3,379,101 are German. Air deployed is 6,852 to 2,763.

All in all, Iíd say that this was a good turn for us, in that there were no major disasters.

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C4 T005 - 9/16/2018 5:43:23 PM   
Telemecus


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Axis North Turn 5

4th Panzer Group drives hard in to the Soviet forces which we find are now densely packed aroud Pskow. 16th army advances to its south towards Velkie Luki. By contrast the advance in to Estonia is a cake walk. The Finns are also in full pursuit of the Soviet forces - although it looks like they are preparing a fall back position on the Jšnisjšrvi.




quote:

Erzac
Well my brain composes of equal parts coffee, beer, and game rules


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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/16/2018 5:44:45 PM >

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/18/2018 6:24:09 PM   
thedoctorking


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There's some of those "Panzer supermen" that HLYA is always talking about. Five losses for the Germans and 1177 for the Soviets!

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/22/2018 6:09:23 PM   
thedoctorking


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Are we doing turn 5 now?

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/22/2018 6:48:42 PM   
Telemecus


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Yep - awaiting Neogodhobo who said they wanted to post T5 centre

(The attached picture is for post 116 on the Axis turn 5 air turn)

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/28/2018 11:31:08 AM >

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/25/2018 10:30:01 PM   
Telemecus


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Axis Centre Turn 5
(Neogodhobo has asked me to post the AAR for this turn for them)

On turn 2 our North commander, Neogodhobo, wanted to move all the best units in Centre command to South Command
quote:

Neogodhobo
send lots of fast div. In the south ... Slow down the advance on center to boost south


This turn our new Centre commander, Neogodhobo, is highly critical of our turn 2 North commanders suggestion
quote:

Neogodhobo
Im extremely frustrated of having an engire pz.gr cut off from central front. Dont know whos idea it was





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RE: C4 T005 - 9/26/2018 2:07:53 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

There's some of those "Panzer supermen" that HLYA is always talking about. Five losses for the Germans and 1177 for the Soviets!


Hasty attack against a dug in unit it looks like from the combat strength of 82 for the Soviet unit. The bombers flying unopposed without the Soviets flying CAP didnt help the loses for sure. But yeah, the lose ratio against PZ units is.... You can fill in the blank.

_____________________________

Space we can recover; time never

Napoleon

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Post #: 101
RE: C4 T005 - 9/26/2018 7:46:55 PM   
Telemecus


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Views from forward headquarters of South Command




This is one of what will be a regularly recurring feature of this AAR

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/26/2018 7:47:19 PM >

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/27/2018 6:02:03 PM   
Telemecus


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Axis South Turn 5




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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:50:44 AM   
thedoctorking


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Connect 4 AAR, turn 5

German turn 4 saw a number of small offensives but on the whole our caution last turn minimized our losses. The German main effort continues to be in the south, where we gave the most ground. In order to distract some from that effort, we took a more aggressive stance in the center and north.

Hereís this turnís armor/motorized tracking sheet:


Corps Division Strength Supply Location turn 5
4th Panzer Group
4th Pz Group Totenkopf SS Motorized 15? ? Pskov 74,34
4th/XXXXI Pz Corps 1 Panzer 35 20 Pskov 75,33
6th Panzer 31 19 Pskov 75,35
36 Motorized 21 26 Pskov 75,36
4th/LVI Panzer Corps 8th Panzer 36 21 Pskov 76,33
4th/LVI Panzer Corps 3rd Motorized 22 20 Pskov 76, 34
2nd Panzer Group
9th Army/V Corps 900th Lehr Motorized Regiment
XXIV Panzer Corps Vinnitsa 74,89
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps 10th Motorized 8 + 6 + ? 10 Vinnitsa 73,92
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps 3rd Panzer 45 24 Kirovograd 86,94
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps 4th Panzer Vinnitsa 71,82
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps 1st Cavalry 15? ?
XXXXVI Panzer Corps Vinnitsa 72,86
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps 10th Panzer
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps Das Reich SS Motorized 6 + 10 + 9 16
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps Grossdeutschland Motorized Rgt
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps 17th Panzer 8, 12, 12 31 (rgts) Land bridge region
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps 18th Panzer
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps 29th Motorized 7 + 6 + 7 19
3rd Panzer Group
3rd Panzer Group 7th Panzer 38 45 Vitebsk 80,46
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps 20th Panzer 34 32
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps 14th Motorized 18 33 Vitebsk 81,47
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps 20th Motorized 26 34
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps 12 Panzer 10, 13, 10 32 (rgts) 1 Vitebsk, 2 Mogliev
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps 19th Panzer 38 28 Orsha 80, 54
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps 18th Motorized 21 46 Orsha 80, 53
1st Panzer Group Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler SS Motorized ? ? Kirovograd 84,94
1st/III Panzer Corps 25th Motorized 21 22 Bobinets 86.97
1st/III Panzer Corps 14th Panzer 42 23 Kirovograd 86,95
1st/III Panzer Corps 13th Panzer ? ? Zhitomir 73,82
1st/XIV Panzer Corps Wiking SS Motorized 36 21 Yelanets 87,100
1st/XIV Panzer Corps 9th Panzer ? ? Yelanets 87,99 airdrop
1st/XIV Panzer Corps 16th Panzer ? ? Novoarkhangelsk 82,94
1st/XXXXVIII Panzer Corps 16th Motorized 22 23 Bobinets 87,96
1st/XXXXVIII Panzer Corps 11th Panzer 44 22 Kirovograd 85, 94
8th SS Cavalry Brigade
60th Motorized
Slovakian Motorized Division ? ?
1st Rumanian Armored 8 22 Bobinets 86.97
6th Army/XXXX Panzer Corps
2nd Panzer
5th Panzer
Latvian SS Motorized Brigade
203rd Panzer Regiment
22nd Panzer division


In the north, the German 4th Panzer Group pushed across the Sinyaya River south of Pskov while infantry from 16th Army moved up to the outskirts of the city itself. The usual German northern army, 18th, is apparently still moving up from Riga and is only in contact in southern Estonia.






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< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 9/28/2018 2:51:06 AM >

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:51:46 AM   
thedoctorking


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Farther south, a mass of German infantry has reached our positions between Pskov and Polotsk. Behind this mass is what appears to be a single FBD, pushing the Axis rail line east along the Riga-Velikie Luki line. This appears to be the main line of the Axis offensive in this sector. The 3rd Panzer Groupís two corps pushed across both rivers in this sector, the Dvina at Vitebsk and the Dnepr right at the bend. The corps that apparently had the HQBU last turn, XXXIX Panzer, seems to have used its movement points in deliberate attacks into the city and across the river and only advanced a few miles beyond the river. Still, this appears to confirm my suspicion that the main line of advance is north of the Dvina. The land bridge was held by a few armored regiments. To the south of the bend of the Dnepr, a few regiments held a weak position along the river down to Mogliev, which was still in our hands.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:52:25 AM   
thedoctorking


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The swamp sector is beginning to get some attention. Elements of 4th Army seem to be moving southeast, while 6th and perhaps 2nd are advancing from the south. However, they have permitted a substantial gap to open up between their infantry and the forward positions held by the armor. An eighty-mile gap separated 3rd Panzer Groupís southern flank from the elements of 4th Army moving southeast towards Gomel.




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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:53:15 AM   
thedoctorking


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In the northern Ukraine, there was almost no action as 2nd Panzer Group held its positions, perhaps awaiting supply deliveries or doing HQBUís, while in the rear 17th Army and the Axis Allies cleared the remnants of the first-turn pockets and 6th and perhaps 2nd closed in on Kiev from the northwest.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:53:55 AM   
thedoctorking


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In the southern Ukraine, at least two FBDís appear to be working the Kishniev-Odessa line. No doubt the Axis are relying on the rapid repair of the Odessa port facilities (they should be functional in a couple of turns) to deliver supplies to their advancing forces. This is a recent discovery by some Axis players that will permit much more effective supply deliveries that has been the case in earlier games. This makes it reasonable for the Axis to hope to capture Rostov-on-Don in the first summer and be prepared for a southern offensive in 1942. The Axis did not send any escorting units for the FBDís, however, and we have the remnants of the Odessa defenses still in ďbeachheadĒ supply, so perhaps we can at least slow their advance down. Also, there are only a few German infantry divisions in this sector, meaning that any breakthrough will have to be made by armor, limiting the speed of the German advance.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:54:42 AM   
thedoctorking


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In the northern region, we continued the difficult process of sorting out Northern and Northwestern Front units. Limited APís and rail capacity mean that, for the most part, Northwest Front units in Estonia and around Leningrad will have to walk to their intended positions south of Novgorod, while Northern/Leningrad Front will have to be build slowly to replace them. We did move most of the forces that had been assigned to dig along the Luga south to buttress the Pskov position. This is a risky proposition. It is possible, given the reasonably good supply situation in that area, for 4th Panzer Groupís tanks to break through our positions east of Pskov and either pocket or at least threaten to pocket the city. We tried to strengthen the critical areas to ensure that a deliberate attack would be needed to clear the hexes. Most likely, they donít have enough troops to clear a hole and still have something left to push through with, given that there is only one panzer group in the area. Also, a weak screen to the east of their positions will hopefully draw them into a fruitless attack into the swamps.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:56:05 AM   
thedoctorking


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In the center, we withdrew from the Velikaya-Polotsk line that we had been holding back towards the Lovat. Western Frontís 3rd Army is still marooned in the middle of Reserve Frontís positions; hopefully we will be able to get that situation resolved next turn. The Velikie Luki position looks strong enough to hold for this turn, especially since we managed to isolate the entirety of 3rd Panzer Group.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:56:53 AM   
thedoctorking


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The attack against 3rd Panzer Group was like the one proposed and rejected last turn, but this time only one attack had to succeed to clear the path of the breakthrough units. I judged it worth trying, especially since, in case of failure, the attackers would be near Mogliev and not hanging out in an easily-isolated forward position. Having successfully isolated 3rd Panzer Group, 13th Army took the opportunity to launch counter-attacks against several exposed units in the pocket, further exhausting their supply and ammo and hopefully making them incapable of offensive operations next turn.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:58:08 AM   
thedoctorking


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In the Kiev region, we continued a slow withdrawal towards the river. Our forces here are quite weak, with most powerful units transferred to the south to confront 1st Panzer Groupís offensive towards the lower Dnepr. Itís conceivable that 2nd Panzer Group, by now probably fully-supplied, could break across the Dnepr on both sides of Kiev and cut the city off. It would be a daring move and might invite another counterattack. Also, armor crossing a major river is very costly in movement points, and there is little infantry on the southern side of the city. I think it more likely that 6th Army will push directly into the city from the northwest while 2nd Panzer either moves to join its fellows to the southeast or sweeps the west bank of the river.





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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:59:12 AM   
thedoctorking


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Farther to the south, we did manage to displace one German FBD, hopefully slowing the progress of their rail construction by a couple of hexes. We withdrew another 40-50 miles, ensuring that any aggressive moves they make in this sector will be only with armor. A sweep to the Dnepr in either direction is possible; I think a movement to the northeast aiming to cross between Cherkassy and Kremenchug is the most likely.






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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 2:59:52 AM   
thedoctorking


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Losses this turn were 209980 for us and 20775 for the Axis. They destroyed 22 divisions, all in the first-turn west Ukraine pocket. Air losses were 338 to 159. Of the Axis air losses, 21 were fighters, below replacement. The new German air commander was much more cautious with his air bases than his predecessor. They lost 72 level bombers, though, in several ill-considered and ineffective strategic bombing missions. Of our air losses, 80 were first-line fighters and 21 were first-line bombers; in both cases, this is below replacement levels. End of turn TOE was 3,684,041 for us to 4,982,720 Axis (3,389,824 Germans)

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 3:02:57 AM   
thedoctorking


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Still confused about 2nd Army.

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 11:32:51 AM   
Telemecus


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Axis Air Turn 5

quote:

Erzac
Should be a radically faster air turn probably, as I've now some insight into the mysteries of the Kabuki.


quote:

Erzac
Also some German planes might have ended up on a Romanian airbase, as Kabuki got mixed into Romanian folk dance.


quote:

Erzac
The air part went rather nicely as well, with the exception of a particular attack, in which a handful of romanian bombers ceased to exist.
Sending level bombers without escort is generally a bad idea outside of the starting turns





quote:

Erzac
Right I'll have to bomb with them then, didn't know they were so picky about supporting allied troops
quote:

Telemecus
yes ... the allies will only bomb for themselves
the Luftwaffe will bomb for anyone - and from any army group to any army group
they are the hussies of the air world!
...
this is only ground support - for everything else like interception it is also a free for all
quote:

Erzac
Interception would be rather awkward if it was limited
"Oh they're going for the Romanians, we can stay in the canteen"


quote:

Erzac
Also we sent a direct message from GŲring
Via recon





quote:

Telemecus
oh no do not go close to 999
quote:

Erzac
Yeah no worries
...
Any way to see how many missions I've flown this turn?
quote:

Telemecus
yes - commanders report battles tab
quote:

Erzac09/08/2018
Well, good thing I asked


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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/28/2018 12:32:28 PM >

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 11:35:29 AM   
Telemecus


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Axis Allocations Turn 5

This post is reserved for a future upload of team allocations.

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RE: C4 T005 - 9/28/2018 10:30:26 PM   
thedoctorking


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Sorry, I got out of order with posting my turn 5 stuff. I don't imagine there is any way to re-order the posts now? Anyway, thanks to Erzac for pointing out his recon signature! We'll do the same for you later, but with bombers...

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Post #: 118
RE: C4 T005 - 9/29/2018 12:03:00 PM   
Neogodhobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Axis Centre Turn 5
(Neogodhobo has asked me to post the AAR for this turn for them)

On turn 2 our North commander, Neogodhobo, wanted to move all the best units in Centre command to South Command
quote:

Neogodhobo
send lots of fast div. In the south ... Slow down the advance on center to boost south


This turn our new Centre commander, Neogodhobo, is highly critical of our turn 2 North commanders suggestion
quote:

Neogodhobo
Im extremely frustrated of having an engire pz.gr cut off from central front. Dont know whos idea it was





quote:

Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/26/2018 7:47:19 PM >




I guess I forgot all about it. Haha. Call me bipolar or something ;)
Thanks Telemecus for doing the turn AAR. Could you shed some light on 2nd army for Dr.King ? Or else Il do it by next week.

_____________________________


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Post #: 119
RE: C4 T005 - 9/29/2018 3:42:41 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Sorry, I got out of order with posting my turn 5 stuff. I don't imagine there is any way to re-order the posts now?


You could just repost all the old posts here again in new posts after Axis turn 5? No one has commented yet on the Soviet turn so everything would be in order again. You can delete the old posts leaving a message they are intentionally blank. Or even just use them for uploaded pictures (the 1 picture per post rule) attached there but displayed in another post.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/29/2018 4:12:07 PM >

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