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Air Unit training - 8/15/2018 10:39:02 PM   
agm

 

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Why do some bases produce little experience progress for air units in training mode while others help? What are the parameters that aid growth in experience?
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RE: Air Unit training - 8/15/2018 11:38:53 PM   
rustysi


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OK, not such an easy question as there are multiple factors that have an effect on training.

First and foremost are your leaders' characteristics, and the most (and maybe the only?) is air skill. Pick a leader that has a good one. Remember though that you can't put all your best leaders here as they'll be needed at the front.

It should also help if you put in one or two TRACOM (81 experience and above) level pilots as 'trainers' if you will. There's proof of this which can be found in the 'Pilot Addendum' section of the notes.

Don't believe the base has anything to do with it other than to say it should have supply in order to support ops.

Beyond that you need to train the skills that the unit will need in combat. Fighter pilots don't need search skills. Train escort at say 15k to get their 'air' skill up.

There's more to it and you can search for many threads which I'm know were devoted to the topic. I'd recommend it as there's tons of info out there.

Ciao

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(in reply to agm)
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RE: Air Unit training - 8/15/2018 11:45:21 PM   
rustysi


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Sorry I didn't notice this at first, but...

Questions like this are better asked in the General or War Room section of the Forum. This is usually reserved for technical questions that relate to a problem with the software.

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RE: Air Unit training - 8/16/2018 1:39:12 AM   
Lokasenna


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The base that a unit is at has no effect on unit training that I am aware of, unless of course the base's airfield is 100% damaged and the planes are unable to fly training missions.

(in reply to rustysi)
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RE: Air Unit training - 9/12/2018 1:05:36 AM   
agm

 

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While better leaders appears to help, I am still seeing the problem. For example, I put several units into training mode in Charters Towers. They did not improve and they never showed any fatigue. I then moved some of them to Townsville, where they immediately began to show fatigue and, eventually, improvement. Neither base has any damage or supply issues.

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/13/2018 8:53:28 AM   
szmike

 

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weather most likely is the cause

lower chance of flying in malaria or cold zones, you can check the weather in a hex with F7

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/17/2018 6:01:10 AM   
moore4807


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quote:

While better leaders appears to help, I am still seeing the problem. For example, I put several units into training mode in Charters Towers. They did not improve and they never showed any fatigue. I then moved some of them to Townsville, where they immediately began to show fatigue and, eventually, improvement. Neither base has any damage or supply issues.

I'll jump in here as a "bad" non-expert, and offer the optimum air-ops training advice I've received in the past and found to have worked pretty well.
1) Good leaders - as noted above it is probably the strongest action to speed up pilot training. I also put 1-2 TRACOM qualified pilots in training units and even without planes the cadets will gain experience (+25-50 air range in three months) topping out in the 65-75 air range after six months.
2) Z E R O range prevents fatigue and simulates the RL of keeping kids close to home if they get in trouble!
3) Fighter pilots - escort training 15K @ 0 range = best air results, sweep training 100ft @ 0 range for best strafing results.
4) Bomber Pilots - level bombing 10K @ 0 range = best for Med Bombers & Heavy Bombers, low level bombing 1K @ 0 range for light bombers.
5) Search pilots - any altitude @ 0 range seems to work ok, personally I choose 20K so It's a quick ID scrolling through the lists
6) Torpedo pilots - 5K altitude and 0 range seems to work best for these poor souls :)
7) Finally ASW pilots - US/Allied pilots are slower than the Japanese in training ASW, 5K @ 0 range for both and the Japanese seem to gain experience MUCH quicker, however USN Kingfisher float planes are elite sub killers once combined with an experienced (exp +/- 70's) crew.
ALL of these pilots will average around 6 months to get to 65-75 experience levels from trainees. Also you will occasionally have a few student pilots that just don't progress that well in a certain class, feel free to switch them (For example from fighter to search) and drop another trainee in their place!

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/17/2018 6:39:00 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, not such an easy question as there are multiple factors that have an effect on training.

First and foremost are your leaders' characteristics, and the most (and maybe the only?) is air skill. Pick a leader that has a good one...



I thought leadership was the most important skill for a training squadron commander. I will have to go over commander's skills again.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 9/18/2018 12:22:22 AM >

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/20/2018 12:39:59 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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I think bases have nothing to do with training skill.

On the other side I have noticed good results in modifying altitude over time, don't ask me why. I begin with 'ESCORT' at 10k, then I move after some weeks to 15k and finally to 20k. It helps.

I run a very peculiar training programme so everyone has his own set of best practices. Personally, I send guys to the reserve once they hit 'AIR => 70' and 'EXP => 45'. Then in front line units not under extreme pressure, they gain more experience through CAP mission, which works wonderfully. DEF skill is generally done to 60s.


This way of thinking puts on frontline pilots with little capabilities, but I have huge pools and I have been able to drain every good starting pilot putting them to the reserve. In '44 I'll need those good '41 guys on good planes. Let the poor recruits fly the Oscars for the time being.


I have noticed that setting groups in mixed missions (let's say "30% NavS; 30% Training; 40% rest) with max range provides far less exp than 100% train with range zero: apparently it's not directly proportional. On the other hand, if those guys have the opportunity to do what their mission is meant to achieve, they gain a lot of exp. I have seen that with a group of 9 Kates in Rabaul: they were slowly training, but then they have found a little Allied convoy and sinking it they have gained huge exp.

In this case the base is important in terms of likelihood of targets for the mission. But it's not the base per-se that dictates exp/skill gains.



Tradeoffs as usual.


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RE: Air Unit training - 9/20/2018 3:18:20 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

It should also help if you put in one or two TRACOM (81 experience and above) level pilots as 'trainers' if you will. There's proof of this which can be found in the 'Pilot Addendum' section of the notes.


My understanding of this after reading the Addendum is that it only applies to "dedicated training groups", and not normal groups.



Clarification would be welcome from someone in the know.

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Post #: 10
RE: Air Unit training - 9/20/2018 6:42:13 PM   
szmike

 

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TRACOM pilots affect training of pool pilots, but you need 10+ of them to have any noticeable effect. Then high exp pilots likely have positive effect when training on map and since you could add 81+ exp pilots to on map groups, it may be source of confusion.

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Post #: 11
RE: Air Unit training - 9/20/2018 8:21:01 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The base that a unit is at has no effect on unit training that I am aware of, unless of course the base's airfield is 100% damaged and the planes are unable to fly training missions.



Or if the base has no aviation support and the abled planes quickly become disabled and stop flying training missions.

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/20/2018 8:23:09 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agm

While better leaders appears to help, I am still seeing the problem. For example, I put several units into training mode in Charters Towers. They did not improve and they never showed any fatigue. I then moved some of them to Townsville, where they immediately began to show fatigue and, eventually, improvement. Neither base has any damage or supply issues.



What was the aviation support level difference between the two bases?

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/21/2018 12:36:08 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

7. Training
Skill and experience training has been changed slightly. They both increase incrementally.
Points are accumulated for each skill/experience and once a certain level is reached, a point is added to the actual skill/experience level.
The cutover level is based on the current skill/experience level with some randomness thrown in. So as the skill/experience level increases, it takes more accumulated points to reach the next level.
Combat gains points faster than straight training, and combat is generally required to reach 70+ skill/experience levels.
Experience levels behave like skill levels with the one exception.
If the Experience level is higher than the best skill by more than 5, then a skill, based on the group’s mission, might gains the accumulated points instead.
Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the AM and PM air phases. These gain both skill and experience points.
Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
1. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the overall group experience level
2. if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the leader’s skill
3. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher increments to accumulators)
4. if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
5. if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots
(experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training) IOW 81+ EXP pilots in the group


For clarification, it seems that 81+ EXP pilots in regular groups will benefit training, but will benefit training even more when used as instructors in dedicated training groups.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 14
RE: Air Unit training - 9/21/2018 1:51:50 PM   
Enforcer

 

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how do you get a dedicated training group?

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/21/2018 1:57:24 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Enforcer

how do you get a dedicated training group?


You can create them in the Editor by clicking the box for training. Some mods already have them....GP

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RE: Air Unit training - 9/24/2018 7:06:51 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

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Bases effect training in two ways:

1. Weather conditions in bases can cause aircraft not to fly (and reduce rate of training)
2. Limited Aviation support can cause aircraft to stay damaged longer and reduce training sortie rates.

To my knowledge there is no other effect.

You cannot talk about training programs without understanding how it all works. I have to talk about the factors that influence the rate of advancement in pilot experience and skill. Before all else, let me quote section 7 of the Pilot Management Addendum (I have edited a bit):

"7. Training
• Skill and experience training has been changed slightly. They both increase incrementally.
• Points are accumulated for each skill/experience and once a certain level is reached, a point is added to the actual skill/experience level.
• The cutover level is based on the current skill/experience level with some randomness thrown in. So as the skill/experience level increases, it takes more accumulated points to reach the next level.
• Combat gains points faster than straight training, and combat is generally required to reach 70+ skill/experience levels.
• Experience levels behave like skill levels with the one exception. If the Experience level is higher than the best skill by more than 5, then a skill, based on the group’s mission, might gains the accumulated points instead.

Groups can fly normal Training missions (with a training percent) which occur in the AM and PM air phases.
• These gain both skill and experience points.
• Groups will also gain skill and experience (after passing a training check against the training percent of the group) at the end of each day:
○ if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the overall group experience level
○ if the pilot’s experience is less 50 (plus pilot’s missions and kills) and less than the leader’s skill
○ if pilot is in a dedicated Training group with some Instructors (adds higher increments to accumulators)
○ if pilot is in a dedicated Training group without Instructors (higher success and slightly higher increments than a normal group)
○ if pilot is in a group with some training percent (number of veteran pilots (experience of 80+) increases chance of successful training)"

I use the following terms to describe these factors:
• Training Flight Effects
• Group Experience Bonus
• Leader Bonus

Please note that the dedicated training squadrons were removed in a patch and do not exist in Scenario 1.

Experience Gain under 50 Exp
After performing a variety of tests on rates of training increase, there are three primary factors that influence training rates for pilots under 50 Exp:

1) Flying training missions: Each pilot that flies will gain some amount of experience, period. This does not mean that the pilot will gain a point in Exp or a skill like Air every turn. It means that the pilots will accumulate points toward skill and exp gains. To fly, they have to have a plane.
2) Pilots with Exp < 51 and a leader with Leadership rating greater than the pilots Exp will gain experience if he passes a flying check.
3) Pilots with experience less than the average experience of the group they are in will get some bonus experience.

After analyzing the testing results, the relative effects of the three sources of Exp gain for a given pilots rate of experience gain is something like the following:

The Leadership Bonus and Group Experience Bonus contribute approximately equal amounts to advancement. Training Flight Effects only apply to pilots that actually fly training missions, but each mission is approximately equal to the Leadership Bonus or the Group Experience bonus. Since up to 2 missions can be flown per pilot, per day, the Training Flight Effects can represent 50% of the pilot's advancement rate. The key factors in this are the number of planes (full complement of planes is best), training percentage (should always be 100%), and the weather (avoid monsoon, cold, northern zones for training). Veteran pilots appear to have some effect upon experience gain as well, but the impact seems to be lesser than the other three factors. It is difficult to quantify, but groups with Veteran pilots (81+ Exp) seemed to advance about 10% faster than similar groups with non-Veteran pilots.

Experience and Skill gain above 50 Exp
Experience gain above 50 seems to be solely influenced by flying missions, training or otherwise. None of the other bonuses appeared to have any effect, even when the mission count was increased as is suggested by the paragraph above from the Pilot Training Addendum.

(in reply to agm)
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