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Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 6:04:36 PM   
Timotheus

 

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Obviously a new Japan player, in uncharted (by me) territory.

Biggest issue is....

Finding enough ground forces to seize everything I want in the first few months.
Big problem are the dot bases with 0 or 1 port - once the amphib bonus is gone, it takes a few days to load back up again an SNLF (or whatever small LCU) and goto another location.

The comp did a huge withdrawal ("sir robin") and I bombed Manila at start so very few enemy sub actions, which simplifies my task as the comp is very passive.

But finding the LCU's to seize stuff, garrison stuff, load for another target is very difficult (for me).

For example (new player, probably inept) it is Feb 12 1942 and I captured Singapore, still struggling on Bataan (I think on HARD difficulty, the AI gets supply bonuses so they don't starve, which is ridiculous, but I did not want enemy bases to wither on the vine and make game too easy) and taking tremendous losses on Bataan (there are 50k Allied troops there, it's a bloodbath even when only bombarding!).

Only now just encircled Batavia and having closed all surrounding hexes getting into the city to siege it...

But Burma advance was stopped cold, as Sittang Bridge has 17 units (tens of thousands dug-in) which gives me opportunity to just strike Rangoon / take Pegu and encircle/get them into the jungle to wither BUT I have no free forces to do so.

No Pacific Islands seized either, expect Wake to be a fortress by now.

Just not enough LCU for Japan to accomplish everything (when yours truly is playing Japan).

I can't imagine playing versus a good human opponent who would sink/kill even the smallest LCU, as that TREMENDOUSLY upsets the timetable. Even a little SNLF Coy getting that dot base is important. Human directed enemy subs, DD raids, CV raids would wreck me.

I think Japan is much harder to play than the Allies, as when I played Allies all I had to worry about was evacuating stuff, making fortress Palembang and getting some fuel and fighters to Australia.

Anyway, that's me, the greenhorn Japan player.


edit: and another thing. Those small, shattered Allied units which get thrown out of a base ARE A problem. It takes forever to kill them off in rough terrain - for example, I spent roughly 2 weeks attacking a unit which had 40 troops near puerto princessa!

If you don't leave a garrison or kill it off, that 40 member piddly LCU can and will capture your base.

Great.... this has turned into "may I have some cheese with that WHINE" post

< Message edited by Timotheus -- 8/13/2018 6:27:12 PM >


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Post #: 1
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 6:41:50 PM   
Lowpe


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Bless your heart!

I hope Hans reads this.

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 2
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 6:42:09 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 9427
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: online
For the for the dot bases, simply use paratroopers or fast transport TFs with only part of the unit. You can pick up the units by evacuating them with Fast Transport TFs and/or float planes.

Bataan lasts a long time but check the stacking limits there. If overstacked, the Allied Forces there will use the supplies fast so just keep them there until later. The tactic is to let them starve. The extra units from there can go to Burma and/or be used to take other targets. If you are taking lots of losses with your bombarding units, bring in lots of extra artillery - especially the bigger guns. If you bomb the port and/or airfield,that will get repaired before the engineers work on fortifications again. Plus you can destroy supplies. If you can safely do so, bombard with BBs, CAs, and CLs. Stand off and don't let your DDs bombard if you have not cleared out the minefield.

In Burma, see if you can paradrop behind him and take bases that way. If he is blocking you there, go after Akyab, Coxs Bazaar, and/or Chittagong. That way you can cut him off even more.

For those units thrown out of a base, bombard them by land and air. You can even strafe them with fighters - especially if they have NO AA guns. Once the last base is taken on that land mass, they will no longer receive supplies. At that last base, the units there will surrender and not escape to the jungle. These "zombie" units are good live fire targets for your air unit to practice on. You can destroy them this way as well.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 3
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 7:11:22 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7339
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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Yes, Lowpe I read it.

To the OP:

Even as the Allies you will never have enough troops to garrison every base.
Not every base needs a garrison.

Pick and choose what is important to defend because you can't defend everything.

Leave the troops you kicked out of the base to wither and die out of supply.
Don't waste effort chasing them into the jungle to exterminate them.
Unless, of course, you want to be able to leave that base unoccupied.

You also don't need to conquer every last dot base.
Many will autoflip due to proximity to one of your controlled occupied bases.
We longtimers refer to this as the 'rowboat corps'.

Playing the side that has to attack first is always harder than playing the side that gets to counter attack.
Doesn't matter what game it is.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 4
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 8:41:18 PM   
Timotheus

 

Posts: 468
Joined: 12/13/2013
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Ohh boy, nooooo, I am not conquering EVERY dot base...
I am conquering dot bases near which there WILL be convoy or naval traffic. I believe that all allied bases have coast guard i.e. free intel for any Japanese ship movement nearby.

So I am conquering those. Then picking up the small LCU and moving on. Thank goodness for PATROL function so they can loiter instead of returning to home base, wherever that is set.

For example, Banggi right next to Kudat is a prime example of such a MUST HAVE dot base (in my opinion).
Another is Tambelan-eilanden, right next to between Ketapang and Billiton.
Serasan and Soebi-besar NW of Kuching is another must-have.

Hope that clarifies, that I am not 100% insane. Just 70%. Maybe 80% (I AM playing this monster, that DOES make me default insane)


Interestingly, I did not have recently the "rowboat" brigade action (although I could have missed it in OPrep).
I had to mount up and invade dots right next to already capped base.
No idea why my Japanese are so lazy

edit edit: ah, also, on hard AI gets such supply bonuses that starving does not seem to work... much. At least from what I see.


@Lowpe
"Bless your heart" is an insult in the South, ain't it?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bless%20your%20heart

English is not my first language, especially deep south idioms and slang.
So, errr, "bless your heart" right back at you I guess? Shrug.

< Message edited by Timotheus -- 8/13/2018 8:53:19 PM >


_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
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Make own WW2 scenario in Advanced Tactics Gold
http://tinyurl.com/l6v7aum

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 8:48:49 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Joined: 2/24/2009
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A dot "base" isn't really a base; it's a potential base site. I don't think you get any free intel from them. I've never noticed this at least. I've never noticed any free intel from a leveled base that has zero humans on it either, but I am not the most observant guy around here. (Coastwatchers count as humans.)

The Rowboat Corps (capital letters please, for it is a noble calling) doesn't happen in one turn and is subject to randoms from long observation, plus a control radius of some size whereby even one enemy possession inside the radius will prevent the sallying forth of said Rowboaters. Take everything blue and sit tight.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 6
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 8:57:32 PM   
Timotheus

 

Posts: 468
Joined: 12/13/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

A dot "base" isn't really a base; it's a potential base site. I don't think you get any free intel from them. I've never noticed this at least. I've never noticed any free intel from a leveled base that has zero humans on it either, but I am not the most observant guy around here. (Coastwatchers count as humans.)

The Rowboat Corps (capital letters please, for it is a noble calling) doesn't happen in one turn and is subject to randoms from long observation, plus a control radius of some size whereby even one enemy possession inside the radius will prevent the sallying forth of said Rowboaters. Take everything blue and sit tight.



The Allies do get the "coast watchers observed ships in port" messages in OP rep.
The Allies also do see enemy TF moving next to Allied bases in replay (I believe).

These are tied to Allied bases providing intel (again, I believe, I could be wrong).

So that's how "rowboat" works.... this clarifies things. It is RNG based... and I am too impatient, it seems.

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

Make own WW2 scenario in Advanced Tactics Gold
http://tinyurl.com/l6v7aum

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 7
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 9:11:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6792
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I think on HARD difficulty, the AI gets supply bonuses so they don't starve


That's correct, on the hard setting (or is that very hard... anyway) AI units won't run out of supply. Its why I choose not to play it. The goal for me is PBEM anyway so I want to see how lack of supply works.

quote:

Finding enough ground forces to seize everything I want in the first few months.
Big problem are the dot bases with 0 or 1 port - once the amphib bonus is gone, it takes a few days to load back up again an SNLF


Yes, Japan lacks a ton of units, IRL this is as it was, and for me anyway its amazing that they did so much with so little. However, I wonder as a newbie if you're aware of where all your units are. For one the 38th ID which starts near Hong Kong isn't restricted. There's another division in Shanghai that's 'free', you just need to get some other units in there for the garrison. IIRC I belileve there's another ID in the Ryukyu Islands somewhere. There're even some troops up by the city that got hit by the earthquake not too long ago, can't recall the name right now.

Don't worry too much about all those 'dot bases'. Just recon 'em once in a while and take them with a company sized unit in a fast transport and you'll be fine. As for those SNLF forces, I'll generally put them in an amphibious TF with two small sized xAP's for each unit. I'll then combine two or three to invade certain bases. TBH even when the Japanese bonus goes away they'll reload in a day IIRC.

quote:

edit: and another thing. Those small, shattered Allied units which get thrown out of a base ARE A problem. It takes forever to kill them off in rough terrain - for example, I spent roughly 2 weeks attacking a unit which had 40 troops near puerto princessa!

If you don't leave a garrison or kill it off, that 40 member piddly LCU can and will capture your base.


Want to know a little secret. More often than not if you leave them nowhere to retreat they'll surrender when the base falls. So at Puerto Princessa if you take that little base at the end of the island first the other garrison will surrender when defeated. At least that's been my experience. As to the remnants retaking a base I've never had it happen unless there's a road into the base from the hex. When in the jungle or rough terrain the unit will 'kill' itself if it tries to move without supplies. If it still makes you nervous, or against a sneaky human who may be airdropping supplies to it use one of your small single engine bomber units and bomb them every day. Good way to train the unit up too.

As to the rest well you need to complete your ops quickly so that the units from one are made readily available for the next op. This will take planning and time, and a few runs through the expansion part of the game.

Anyway I hope some of this helps. Ciao.

PS: Don't forget to 'prep' your units for the base, even some will keep your disablement's lower than with none. You'll need to keep units as 'healthy' as possible to have them ready for the next op.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 8/13/2018 9:15:48 PM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 8
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 9:22:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6792
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

So that's how "rowboat" works


If you look at the messages that come up when you execute an AI turn, you'll get a message five or six in that tells you a base has been taken.

Yes, it can take some time, and I've never seen it take more than one base/day.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 9
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 9:24:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6792
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

Not every base needs a garrison.


That's not necessarily true, but is impossible.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 10
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 10:05:49 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16145
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

A dot "base" isn't really a base; it's a potential base site. I don't think you get any free intel from them. I've never noticed this at least. I've never noticed any free intel from a leveled base that has zero humans on it either, but I am not the most observant guy around here. (Coastwatchers count as humans.)

The Rowboat Corps (capital letters please, for it is a noble calling) doesn't happen in one turn and is subject to randoms from long observation, plus a control radius of some size whereby even one enemy possession inside the radius will prevent the sallying forth of said Rowboaters. Take everything blue and sit tight.



The Allies do get the "coast watchers observed ships in port" messages in OP rep.
The Allies also do see enemy TF moving next to Allied bases in replay (I believe).

These are tied to Allied bases providing intel (again, I believe, I could be wrong).

So that's how "rowboat" works.... this clarifies things. It is RNG based... and I am too impatient, it seems.

Furthest that I have seen the Autoflip happen is three hexes away, on an isolated island. On a continental mass I can only recall an autoflip when I had troops on the enemy base or in an adjoining hex.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 11
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 10:38:50 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Furthest that I have seen the Autoflip happen is three hexes away, on an isolated island.


Three sounds about right, but I play with hexes off so it's about 67% of a little finger.

Dots don't give you VPs, and they only flip after the war has moved on, more or less, so unless you're really OCD they're not worth a lot of hassle. Everybody worries about the other guy sneaking a search-support ship in and basing planes there in secret, but that's really rare in PBEM. OTOH, if the dot is surrounded for a month and hasn't flipped it bears checking out. The sneak-in dots are the isolated ones, not the ones in a tight chain. Those need to be taken, but there's time.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 12
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/13/2018 11:05:14 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
The Rowboat Corps (capital letters please, for it is a noble calling) doesn't happen in one turn and is subject to randoms from long observation, plus a control radius of some size whereby even one enemy possession inside the radius will prevent the sallying forth of said Rowboaters. Take everything blue and sit tight.

Furthest that I have seen the Autoflip happen is three hexes away, on an isolated island. On a continental mass I can only recall an autoflip when I had troops on the enemy base or in an adjoining hex.

Rowboat Corps is active 2 hexes out IMO, never seen in doing a 3. It choses exactly one empty enemy base to flip each turn which is 1) not accesible for enemy RC and 2) is max 2 hexes away from your AV>0 port base. It is not yet clear for me how overland RC behaves, maybe because it is much nore rare occurence.

Anyway it is very slow for Japan to rely on rowboats in the first months of war - so many dots to paint. And people often forget about AV>0 part. Using paratroopers, even if houseruled to 1 base a turn, is more efficient.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 13
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/14/2018 1:09:53 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

@Lowpe
"Bless your heart" is an insult in the South, ain't it?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bless%20your%20heart

English is not my first language, especially deep south idioms and slang.
So, errr, "bless your heart" right back at you I guess? Shrug.


Holy crap! I am not a southerner either, and this was my Grandmother (who was Southern and a God Fearing Women of the really old school) favorite saying to me and my brothers.

Now I don't know if she was cussing me or blessing me as she has long ago gone to the pearly gates.

OMG.



(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 14
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/14/2018 1:33:08 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Well hush my mouth and call me cornpone!

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 15
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/14/2018 2:51:37 PM   
Skyros


Posts: 1567
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline
For the Yankees and others out their, this should help.


CAROLINE ROGERS
In the South, ‘bless your heart’ situations arise all day, every day. Walk around long enough, and you’ll hear ‘bless your/their/his/her heart’ spoken either vehemently aloud or in a breathless whisper. It’s a versatile phrase indeed. It has a thousand meanings—and just as many possible responses.

If you’re on the receiving end of a ‘bless your heart,’ it might make you laugh...or it might sting a little. It’s usually good-natured, but you’ll have to listen closely, because ‘bless your heart’ has too many meanings to count. Southerners know that the meaning of the phrase depends on the tone in which it’s spoken, and a slight change in inflection or volume can make all the difference.

Stumped? Don’t know how to respond? Consider a few variables. Who’s speaking? What prompted the ‘bless your heart’? You can bet your Southern mamas, aunts, and grandmas are all well versed in the language of ‘bless your heart.’ In fact, they practically wrote the book, so you should study up too. Read on for Bless Your Heart 101, a few variants, and their appropriate responses.

Bless His/Her Heart
A conspiratorial ‘bless his/her heart’ is often spoken in a whisper. It’s not spoken to the proverbial blessed heart. It’s spoken to a friend or neighbor about the blessed heart. Usually, if the phrase is uttered to you in conversation about someone not present—or present, but out of earshot—the appropriate response is a smile, and perhaps a chuckle if you agree.

Bless Your Heart (Tone: Empathetic)
Everyone appreciates this version of ‘bless your heart,’ because it’s always kind and courteous. If ‘bless your heart’ is deployed in an expression of empathy or concern, a clear “Thank you, ma’am,” or “Thank you, sir” is appropriate. ‘Bless your heart’ said in this way is an outstretched hand, a pat on the back, an olive branch of understanding.

Bless Your Heart (Tone: Sassy)
If you’re not hearing sympathy, you’re most likely hearing a touch of sass (or, ok, more than a touch). Receiving this ‘bless your heart’ is a Southern rite of passage. There’s some judgment in this one, but you know it’s only because the person speaking has your best interests at heart. You may be tempted to respond with a return volley of salt or sass, but the best option is to smile and change the subject. (Unless, of course, you have a well-timed response teed up. If so—and if you have no fear of consequences—then the choice is yours.)

Bless My Heart
‘Bless my heart’ has a bevy of meanings, from self-sympathy to self-admonishment to self-deprecation to modesty. The appropriate response to ‘bless my heart’ is usually a sympathetic nod of the head. Not too emphatic (because that can be misinterpreted), but just enough to show that you understand or agree. If you're so moved, you can also offer a validating or concerned ‘bless your heart’ in return. Just watch your tone—it’s a powerful thing.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 16
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/14/2018 5:09:55 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 9427
Joined: 11/16/2015
Status: online
How about "Bless her heart, ain't she precious!"

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Skyros)
Post #: 17
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/15/2018 8:18:57 PM   
Timotheus

 

Posts: 468
Joined: 12/13/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

@Lowpe
"Bless your heart" is an insult in the South, ain't it?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bless%20your%20heart

English is not my first language, especially deep south idioms and slang.
So, errr, "bless your heart" right back at you I guess? Shrug.


Holy crap! I am not a southerner either, and this was my Grandmother (who was Southern and a God Fearing Women of the really old school) favorite saying to me and my brothers.

Now I don't know if she was cussing me or blessing me as she has long ago gone to the pearly gates.

OMG.





All I can say to that is..... bless your heart, homie

_____________________________

NEWBIE GUIDE Distant Worlds Universe
http://tinyurl.com/k3frrle

Make own WW2 scenario in Advanced Tactics Gold
http://tinyurl.com/l6v7aum

INSTALL WITPAE on modern PC
https://tinyurl.com/l5kr6rl

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 18
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/15/2018 8:38:02 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 6792
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

On a continental mass I can only recall an autoflip when I had troops on the enemy base or in an adjoining hex.


Had Magwe flip when it was empty and I was about 3 hexes away, and there were enemy troops between me and the base.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Timotheus)
Post #: 19
RE: Giving Japan a go vs AI and the biggest issue is - 8/16/2018 1:30:22 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1044
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

On a continental mass I can only recall an autoflip when I had troops on the enemy base or in an adjoining hex.


Had Magwe flip when it was empty and I was about 3 hexes away, and there were enemy troops between me and the base.


+1

Personally I have not experienced Burma 'Continental bases flip' - but a few times Chinese ones have based on AI movements of IJA units i.e. within 3 hexes while empty and enemy forces in the 'vicinity'

Lots of 'maneuver and attack going on.

Its a bit of a bummer when those flipped base hexes have garrison requirements and 'I can't get there immediately' albeit its only a VP point or two.



_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 20
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