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Desert War: Eastern Front '42 - 7/18/2018 3:52:20 AM   
bcgames


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What capabilities do you want to see instituted in a WEGO progression of the Desert War Engine (DWE) circa 1942 Russian Front?

< Message edited by bcgames -- 7/22/2018 6:00:42 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/18/2018 10:50:08 PM   
rhinobones

 

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How about a random game generator? The payer could select the type of game (PBM, AI, hot seat), TO&Es and map from the packaged Russian Front scenarios. The game engine would combine everything and assign objectives for a playable game.

Regards

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/19/2018 12:13:33 AM   
jack54


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Waypoints... to allow possible multi turn movement orders.

< Message edited by jack54 -- 7/19/2018 12:15:26 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/19/2018 12:08:27 PM   
Okayrun3254

 

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How about the capability to split a unit.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/19/2018 10:56:17 PM   
Deathtreader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack54

Waypoints... to allow possible multi turn movement orders.



A big plus one!

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So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/20/2018 11:53:13 AM   
76mm


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More terrain types in the map editor, also covering winter and summer.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/20/2018 2:28:12 PM   
laska2k8


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Reassign units to different HQ

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/21/2018 2:27:59 AM   
bcgames


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All great ideas. Keep 'em coming!

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/24/2018 2:43:16 AM   
Duck Doc


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1) Kampfgruppen.

2) Weather effects including mud, snow/ ice, etc.

3) Doctrine effects (eg. “Not one step back, human wave attacks”)

4) Air force assets less generic/ more specific to scenario, I.e. organic air assets. Assets on call and chance of not showing up and fratricide.

5) Elite units (Waffen SS and USSR Guards) units.

6) Cavalry. Siberian ski troops.

Just off the top of my head...



< Message edited by Duck Doc -- 7/24/2018 3:06:49 AM >

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 4:17:53 AM   
bcgames


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Great suggestions...but I don't understand what you mean with this one:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duck Doc

4) Air force assets less generic/ more specific to scenario, I.e. organic air assets...


Can you expand on this?

Thanks!

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 4:35:10 AM   
Okayrun3254

 

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I would like to see engineer units with bridge/pontoon building capabilities.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 6:57:57 AM   
laska2k8


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game:
an events and message system, for reinforces, withdrawals, warnings, historical events. You can use the AI "note" column in the editor to display the msg when triggered.

editor:
ability to define an additional default path for new scenario assets, actually new images must be included in the main graphics folders to be loaded.
ability to filter units in army table/army unit data

< Message edited by laska2k8 -- 7/25/2018 10:16:27 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 10:12:50 AM   
laska2k8


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- AI toggles for human controlled units.

As other wargames do, let choose wich units(HQ or single unit) are triggered by the AI. This reduce the amount of micromanagement. Also support assets spend their actions if AI checked.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 12:04:41 PM   
Saint Ruth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254

I would like to see engineer units with bridge/pontoon building capabilities.

I think that's a "must" for a European game all right. ;)

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 12:10:54 PM   
Saint Ruth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laska2k8


- AI toggles for human controlled units.

As other wargames do, let choose wich units(HQ or single unit) are triggered by the AI. This reduce the amount of micromanagement. Also support assets spend their actions if AI checked.

Sure, good idea. The AI code is already there after all...
quote:


ability to define an additional default path for new scenario assets, actually new images must be included in the main graphics folders to be loaded.

Not sure I understand that. What do you mean by "default path"?

< Message edited by Saint Ruth -- 7/25/2018 12:12:21 PM >

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 12:56:59 PM   
laska2k8


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

quote:

ORIGINAL: laska2k8

ability to define an additional default path for new scenario assets, actually new images must be included in the main graphics folders to be loaded.

Not sure I understand that. What do you mean by "default path"?


Not sure if I'm able to explain in a "correct" English (not my mother language).

Actually all custom images must reside in the subdirectory .\images\.. in the root of your game installation path. My idea was to specify a different folder as option in the editor, to avoid confusion.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/25/2018 1:54:18 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

Great suggestions...but I don't understand what you mean with this one:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Duck Doc

4) Air force assets less generic/ more specific to scenario, I.e. organic air assets...


Can you expand on this?

Thanks!


Don’t really know enough about how tactical air support was arranged but ability to call and pinpoint attacks was probably very limited. Might be too much but can the air aspect of the game be developed more? This is my only intent. Certainly more variability in timing and location might help realism. Also tactical air assets were probably organically attached to ground units at some level. Just thinking out loud with no background knowledge other than casual reading. Not a big thing and probably best to ignore it.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/26/2018 7:15:50 AM   
bcgames


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Thanks for the clarification. The air war will enjoy a few tweaks in the next game.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/30/2018 2:03:40 AM   
bcgames


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It has been suggested off-line that maybe the best way to approach an operational-level, Eastern Front game is to use the hex/unit scale that best supports the actual operational objective of the scenario situation. IOW, use a various-scale system as is currently employed in the Operational Art of War IV's suite of scenarios.

Maybe our next game is executed using a similar, multiple-scaled system. For example, from the scale sets listed below, we select the set that best supports the historical operational setting for the given scenario:

* Battalion/Company/Platoon (like Desert War): 1.25 miles/2 kilometers per hex; 6 turns per day
* Regiment/Battalion/Company: 2.5 miles/4 kilometers per hex; 3 turns per day (like Desert War)
* Division/Regiment/Battalion: 5 miles/8 kilometers per hex; 1 turn per day
* Corps/Division/Regiment: 15 miles/24 kilometers per hex; 1 turn per week

All scale sets would operate off the base set of rules...just like TOAW.

Is a multi-scale game appealing/acceptable (like TOAW) or do you enjoy all scenarios in the same scale as is done in Desert War?

What say you?



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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/31/2018 4:12:21 AM   
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Multi-scaling is not appealing because it dilutes the experience. Stay focused. I would have loved a DRB scale for the Western Desert for Opertion Crusader, for example or a CDR scale for a whole campaign but there would have to be very different supply, naval, air and other specific rule sets for each scale. The scale of DW would be good for a RG War game of small battle experiences.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/31/2018 11:13:47 AM   
benpark

 

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Great- I'm happy with the new venue.

Options are always nice. Multi-scaling would probably open up a lot of possibilities for depicting a variety of actions. It seems like a large can of worms, however.

Most Eastern Front wargames tend to be either tactical or high command level operational (division sized units). I'd be happy with the scale as is, personally- since there are so few good company sized games out there.

It would be great to see a game at the scale used currently for this theater, as it isn't being done nearly as much.

The R/B/C option seems like the best option in terms of dealing with the towering Soviet counter stacks one generally gets in these games (which dictates tactics on both sides). Breakdown and recombination of units could then be an important simulation of ability to command, or other common human factors one encounters with command simulations (morale, leadership, etc).


< Message edited by benpark -- 7/31/2018 11:33:31 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/31/2018 12:34:23 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames
Is a multi-scale game appealing/acceptable (like TOAW) or do you enjoy all scenarios in the same scale as is done in Desert War?

What say you?

For now I would stick with what you have; it is a good scale for this type of game. Maybe later you can evolve to cover multi-scale.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/31/2018 12:59:20 PM   
kipanderson

 

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Hi,

am a fan of the smaller scale operational games. So 2km or 4km per hex would be my preference.

All the best,
Kip.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 7/31/2018 2:02:30 PM   
jack54


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

For now I would stick with what you have; it is a good scale for this type of game. Maybe later you can evolve to cover multi-scale.



+1

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/2/2018 8:51:35 AM   
Okayrun3254

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames
Is a multi-scale game appealing/acceptable (like TOAW) or do you enjoy all scenarios in the same scale as is done in Desert War?

What say you?

For now I would stick with what you have; it is a good scale for this type of game. Maybe later you can evolve to cover multi-scale.



I also vote for sticking with that you have now.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/2/2018 1:05:17 PM   
wodin


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How about Coy scale set around Stalingrad. With new features designed for urban combat and fighting methods!

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/5/2018 4:32:21 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames
Is a multi-scale game appealing/acceptable (like TOAW) or do you enjoy all scenarios in the same scale as is done in Desert War?

What say you?

For now I would stick with what you have; it is a good scale for this type of game. Maybe later you can evolve to cover multi-scale.


I also vote for sticking with that you have now.


To be clear, what we have now is a 2-miles per hex, 8-stacking points per hex game system. That's two battalions, two companies per hex if you can even swing it with the forces available--once you leave the historical assembly areas. However, this is considered grounds for a "Monster Stacking" situation. Sticking to what we have has already been rejected by the majority of posters/critics of Desert War.

But...Thanks for your support of the original theme of the game.

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/6/2018 11:51:27 AM   
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Yeah, but then you've to add long range direct fire over multiple hexes and hence Line Of Sight rules and well, a pile of other rules when you shrink the hex size. It'd be great to do of course, but it'd take too long...

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/6/2018 9:55:04 PM   
Deathtreader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

Yeah, but then you've to add long range direct fire over multiple hexes and hence Line Of Sight rules and well, a pile of other rules when you shrink the hex size. It'd be great to do of course, but it'd take too long...



OK...…… maybe while keeping all sizes/hexes/types etc. the same a simple reduction in the number of stacking points allowed per 2km hex would do the trick. Or put another away, increase the stacking point value of all or some unit types/sizes to accomplish the same thing.

Just a thought.

Rob.

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So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

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RE: Desert War: Lage Ost 1942 - 8/7/2018 2:36:01 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
OK...…… maybe while keeping all sizes/hexes/types etc. the same a simple reduction in the number of stacking points allowed per 2km hex would do the trick. Or put another away, increase the stacking point value of all or some unit types/sizes to accomplish the same thing.

Just a thought.

Rob.

You are close to the mark. Here is my read of the situation.

With regards to the Eastern Front game, what has emerged from the postings found here and from closely-related topics found elsewhere, I conclude the following "what to do":

* Half the Desert War hex scale from 2-miles to one.
* "Double" the time scale from three to five turns per day (4 day, 1 night).
* Retain the company/battalion scale and all the unique, unit type capabilities.
* Scenarios should consist of no more than two corps per side.
* Average scenario length should be on average two to three days time (10-15 turns)...some shorter (a day--5 turns), some longer (6 days--30 turns). None longer.
* Bottom Line: More of the Same, but Smaller, Shorter = Sweeter.

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