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Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis)

 
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Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 2:54:27 PM   
YohanTM


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Axis start with a very solid 2 turn defeat of Poland although maybe a bit more damage than normal as they are showing over 400 lost MPP. Very interesting that on Turn 1 Axis invested 150 MPP in diplomacy. My initial thought was USSR but of course that costs 175MPP now. British Intelligence is guessing 3 chits in Spain. Further deductive reasoning is that Sugar sold his rocket and artillery research to fund these early trips by von Ribbentrop. Turn 2 saw reinforcement of the Axis troops facing France. On the naval front it appears after 4 turns that only the Axis CA and Sub are raiding as losses are low and the Allied fleet is unable to bring anything to combat.

Allies have been spending a bit on diplomacy and research. So far, no diplomacy hits for either side.
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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 3:24:45 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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With the change to the DE every Spain diplo hit is more dramatic. Playing first, it can't be contested and Germany won't get better odds to sway Spain until France.

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 3:50:01 PM   
YohanTM


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On the DE decision front, Allies have been a bit mixed. USSR refused the Lithuania offer to protect my diplomatic level. I did take the Finland option. France banned the communists (I rarely do this) but my diplomacy just paid off as USSR went 12% towards the Allies. Let's see if Sugar occupies Lithuania! Go Soviets!


Finally found his CA and Sub, a few hits so far, will the rest of the German High Seas Fleet sortie? Or perhaps it has done so already?

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 4:39:51 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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I'm experiencing Deja vu.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 6/27/2018 4:40:04 PM >

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 4:43:47 PM   
YohanTM


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CA is on the bottom and Sub surrounded. Something else snuck past my pickets as Canada convoy took a hit. Phoney war continues on the Western front. Germany now has 3 chits in Spain (guessing) and 2 in either USA and/or USSR. I know which one I'm thinking :) GB has 4 chits in play and France has 2

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 5:04:39 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Tech Race status?

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/27/2018 6:52:45 PM   
YohanTM


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Tech and Diplomacy after turn 13 (we are zipping along today)

Germany: 750R/500D
Italy: 150R
USA: 325R
USSR: 350R
Poland: 50D (failed attempt on turn 1 at Finland)
Fra: 350D
GB: 250R/500D

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/28/2018 8:04:55 PM   
Sugar

 

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Allies diplo fires, 3. hit at Russia (55%). Naval battle at the german front door, 2 german destroyers, 2 brit. battleships, 1 battlecruiser, 1 lt. cruiser and 1 french destroyer sunk (german mar. bomber is worth its` money in gold again). Surrounded german sub in the Atlantic escapes. Italian troops occupied Marseille and a mine near Lyon as well as 3 french towns.

Ideal opportunity to choose "All of France", if at least 1 chit had already fired at Spain.

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 6/29/2018 3:15:24 PM   
Sugar

 

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Sept. 40: Vichy installed first week of July, after the loss of the "Scharnhorst" the convoys pass unhampered. Malta fell, no brit. attack in Libya so far, all carriers had some dogfights in the Channel, obviously Yohan was expecting an invasion. First diplo hit in Spain (8%).

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/1/2018 12:11:18 AM   
Sugar

 

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April 41: The first Axis' attack at El Alamein is opened by heavy air combats, 1 brit. fighter is destroyed. Axis achieves air supremacy. Jugoslavya surrenders. USSR at 63%.


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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 12:30:17 AM   
YohanTM


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Sorry for the delay in the AAR, Allied High Command was celebrating the Canada Day weekend. Rumours that Churchill was over-served on July 1 and committed some British BBs on a faint hope mission in the Eastern Med are somewhat accurate. Germany invaded USSR in late July, frankly early then required even with my diplomacy having worked so well. Maybe the garrisons coming on triggered him to go in before they were entrenched.

Egypt was a fiasco. Well dug in, fortified and supplied troops caved in no time. GB is retreating as fast as possible into a recently conquered Iraq. Was it due to the fact the fortifications were built by Free French Engineers?


Spain, unfortunately, is drinking the Axis Kool-Aid and sits at 75%. Does Sugar have the troops to go for Algiers? Does he even need to bother as the USA seems a tad ambivalent to the goings on in Europe and is in the mid-60s at the end of August 1941 even with Egypt toast.

On the good news front, USSR's research has been excellent and I am not only repairing all my dead units, I'm building net new. Germany setup 2 subs and 2 MTB right against the USSR Baltic fleet and quickly toasted them. A gamey strategy similar to the DAK thread which I won't use in non-tourney games but you can bet your butt I will do the same thing he did in my next tourney effort, well played!

Finally, covert searches of French ports revealed no troops in 6 ports. Churchill ordered the immediate assault on 2 of these empty ports and for preparations to be made to take 2 more next turn! Is this an oversight by Sugar? A gamble due to the USSR production? A mouse trap of the diminished GB strength? We shall see in the near future I am sure.

Some bad weather about now would be greatly appreciated!

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 3:21:01 AM   
Sugar

 

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Gamey isn't fitting quite well imho, I didn't use "prepared attack". The existence and composition of the Baltic Fleet was well known, not surprising to include it into an attack on SU.

A few design decisions are a bit odd, knowing the placement of the mobilized rusian units p.e.. The Axis player will undoubtly try to destroy as many as possible, while you were placing cheap units to prevent me from succeeding. Both players try to benefit from their knowledge (the placement is prescribed in the manual btw.), and I can`t find anything wrong about it, since those units were obviously meant to be destroyed, as well as the Baltic Fleet.

In general knowledge is rewarded, no matter if it results from experience, reading the manual or even the scripts. That's reasonable imho

quote:

Maybe the garrisons coming on triggered him to go in before they were entrenched.
You must be joking, aren't you? Garrisons are totally misplaced in the front line, every destruction leads to 0.15 xp to every Axis`unit and HQs accordingly. You lost 9 of them in the first turn; producing them costs 315 MPP (if you sold your chit in prod., otherwise -5%), and replacing them 60% ot the original costs (if not lost in LS), another 190 MPP without any upgrades. That`s the equivalent of 3 major researches, for 1 hit on strengthpoints. Yummie.

quote:

Was it due to the fact the fortifications were built by Free French Engineers?
They were of spanish origin, maybe that could be the reason.

quote:

Does Sugar have the troops to go for Algiers?
Oh yeah.

quote:

Does he even need to bother as the USA seems a tad ambivalent to the goings on in Europe and is in the mid-60s at the end of August 1941 even with Egypt toast.
No, he can wait until they join if necessary to give his chits the opportunity to fire again. That would save the 800 MPPs for the DE and not provoke any diplomatic hazards.

quote:

Is this an oversight by Sugar?
No, he is calculating that amphibs are far more expensive than operating troops and most of them will be destroyed on LS. Beside the fact that it's impossible to cover the whole atlantic coast effectively, those troops aren't preventing an invasion anyway, but providing cheap xp, especially after researching amphibs and attacking twice.








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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 12:31:27 PM   
YohanTM


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Testy fella :) Look, you are an excellent player and very knowledgeable about the rules and systems and I congratulate you for that. I'm just scrambling around trying to find weak points. I'm quite pleased you attacked USSR when you did as I think you could have waited another 3-4 turns and the massive increase in USSR production is much appreciated. I'm sure it was well calculated and to your benefit but it still fits with my plan (which is likely flawed)

My definition of gamey as it applies to SC3 (and if you noted the follow on I said its totally fine for tourney play) is the issues like setting up to kill the DAK etc. The Baltic was a new one for me and again as this is a tournament - well played. Your comment re the Baltic fleet is a bit interesting. I have not read that much about it in WWII but I don't recall 2 German wolfpacks and 2 MTB flotillas sitting off the Russian coast to wipe it out. I really which Hubert would address this matter and others but that's their decision, not mine.

We are coming to the end of October. Netherlands is liberated and the first invasion of the German homeland occurs. USA, I need you soon! (85%)

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 12:41:05 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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I do wish that all the Russian ships would start in port (with the sub in Hanko). They would still be doomed in the long run but at least they could be fleet in being a bit longer.

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 1:07:54 PM   
IrishGuards


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This brings into focus the much larger issue.
As far as countries go, especially neutrals, any incursion into territorial waters
should have an effect.
key example is Italy, when the entire combined fleets are steaming into the adriatic
looking to pounce on the Italian navy, no response, seriously !!
same with russia, as I see it hanko closed the sea zone.
this is the problem w scripted unit placement, the game needs more random placement.
IG

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 1:30:51 PM   
Taxman66


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I'd like to make a brief comment about the Adriatic situation. Italy did not join the war until after France was knocked out. The mechanics of the game do not simulate the real war situation in NUMEROUD ways. These are just more occurances of them.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 2:14:04 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishGuards

This brings into focus the much larger issue.
As far as countries go, especially neutrals, any incursion into territorial waters
should have an effect.
key example is Italy, when the entire combined fleets are steaming into the adriatic
looking to pounce on the Italian navy, no response, seriously !!
same with russia, as I see it hanko closed the sea zone.
this is the problem w scripted unit placement, the game needs more random placement.
IG



Interestingly there's trigger for USA naval presence for Spain and Sweden. It's something that can be done.

(in reply to IrishGuards)
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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 3:22:06 PM   
YohanTM


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KZ, where are those triggers in the rules? I cannot find them. If you would point me to the section it would be appreciated.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishGuards

This brings into focus the much larger issue.
As far as countries go, especially neutrals, any incursion into territorial waters
should have an effect.
key example is Italy, when the entire combined fleets are steaming into the adriatic
looking to pounce on the Italian navy, no response, seriously !!
same with russia, as I see it hanko closed the sea zone.
this is the problem w scripted unit placement, the game needs more random placement.
IG



Interestingly there's trigger for USA naval presence for Spain and Sweden. It's something that can be done.

quote:

done.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 4:59:21 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

KZ, where are those triggers in the rules? I cannot find them. If you would point me to the section it would be appreciated.



Don't think it's in the rules anywhere (maybe there is mention for the Spanish one however). It's one of the mobilization script.

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/3/2018 5:41:23 PM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

Testy fella
Hehe, had to search for the term, does it appear this way? Wasn`t meant to be. I agree some moves to appear "gamey", I also wish it wouldn't be necessary to design things in such a matter (I guess the mob. sovyet forces were meant to reflect some historical aspects like the Great Officer Purge and the horrible losses of the Red Army until Dec. 41).

Other examples are the strength of defending units in countries which historically were occupied quickly (strength 3, 0 supply, even garrisons) to ensure an according occupation.

There are even other edgy tactics. In my current match against Bullett he destroyed 1 of my Stukas in Sicily by shore bombardement (other than ground forces shore bombardements are very effective against aerial units), considering the fact that some of the bombers required for taking Malta quickly don`t fit into the existing towns/cities or behind ports.

I wouldn`t call that gamey, but a good move. Knowing which and how many units are necessary to achieve a goal is part of a successfull gameplay, as well as anticipating is. From my experience that's exactly what the best players, especially in the predecessor "Breakthrough", were doing; and there were far more "exploits" to use than in SC3. At least my strategy is based on the victory conditions and the experience that it's impossible to force the SU to surrender, but on the other hand it works somehow considering the historical situation.

quote:

It's one of the mobilization script.


Did I already mention, it shouldn't be necessary to read scripts?

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/11/2018 2:06:59 AM   
IrishGuards


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Ahmmm .. nay AAR from U2 swines .. eh' !!


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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/12/2018 3:29:46 PM   
Sugar

 

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After the usual process, YohanTM resigned. Another attempt of uber-diplo failed.

Many thx to YohanTM for an entertaining game!

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/12/2018 4:21:52 PM   
room

 

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Come on! That s quite too short! Juicy détails please

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RE: Tourney AAR Yohan (Allies) vs. Sugar (Axis) - 7/12/2018 4:57:53 PM   
Sugar

 

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If it helps.

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][/URL][/image]

As you might notice, many of the Allied casualties are corps and garrisons. My suggestion is to build stronger units to prevent the Axis from gaining lots of cheap xp and field 2- or 3-star units, which are hard to overcome; russian tanks were at the same lvl and Inf. at 3 thx to uber-diplo, Britain is totally screwed researchwise, but have to do most fighting in decisive areas.

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