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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 9:14:10 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Congratulations.

Those Georges must be very good.

He might surge at you and attempt a general naval engagement depending upon ammo levels.

Goodness, he is still one full day away from landing on Midway.

Anyway you can get recon on Wake?

Is there an AGP at Midway?

Definitely look at improving flak makeup of your task forces. You might want to consider embedding the slow battleships with the CVEs...I believe they offer a very good flak package and will divert attention away from the CVEs. But that is for the future, I doubt he can attack again in the air. He can defend however, I wouldn't launch a retaliatory air strike, but rather think about a naval fight with careful tactics and some CAP out of Midway.

The other good aspect is that his remaining squadrons should have shattered morale.

A lot of AFBs like using their CVEs as disposable, try to avoid thinking like that.


The only things to be treated as disposable is your enemy and your ordinance.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2161
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 3:21:40 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Not that it really matters at this point, since your Midway ground defense should be robust enough, but it wouldn't surprise me if that Midway-planning 4th Brigade were putzing around the Inland Sea or headed to do garrison duty somewhere on as many xAKLs as possible to ensure SigInt hits. Note that the brigade has at least 29 slices according to one of your intel pieces (post #2122). You haven't actually spotted anything looking like an amphibious TF, have you?

My advice would be to follow Lowpe's advice.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

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Post #: 2162
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 3:40:00 AM   
Anachro


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No, sorry I didn't give the full picture. The TF with BB Yamashiro, etc. that wasted all its ammo included what looked to very much be an amphibious invasion force with numerous xAKs, DMSs, and escorts. I just snipped them from the photo. There is definitely an invasion force there with all his other stuff that cannot move that fast at mission speed.



< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/20/2020 3:43:04 AM >

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Post #: 2163
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 4:49:32 AM   
RangerJoe


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Look at all of those xAKs. Maybe that is why that brigade is so divided up. In fact, it looks like 29 troop carrying vessels in AMC, AK, and xAK ships.

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Post #: 2164
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 5:20:59 AM   
RangerJoe


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If you think that he is going to charge at you with surface combat TFs but not his Carrier TFs, do you think that it would be worth while to slightly pull back and have shorter ranged Naval Strike set to attack his SCTFs that may end up too far forward? Especially if they were to lose OPs points fighting many small battles against PT boats and small DD TFs?

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Post #: 2165
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 2:47:36 PM   
Bif1961


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If you remain unseen it might be worth the effort to see how the landing at Midway goes, I think you have enough there to easily beat back a Bde only. He might use the KB to do a strike on Midway Then when he has his forces engaged at Midway move in from the NW to get behind him and cut off his line of retreat. He won't expect an attack from behind. I am not a fan of the all fighter defense, but it work for Muhammed Ali.

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Post #: 2166
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 3:10:53 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

If you remain unseen it might be worth the effort to see how the landing at Midway goes, I think you have enough there to easily beat back a Bde only. He might use the KB to do a strike on Midway Then when he has his forces engaged at Midway move in from the NW to get behind him and cut off his line of retreat. He won't expect an attack from behind. I am not a fan of the all fighter defense, but it work for Muhammed Ali.

The danger is that we do not know for sure that the Brigade mentioned in SigInt is the only unit coming. If he did manage to land enough to take Midway, that would be painful.

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Post #: 2167
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 3:32:34 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

If you remain unseen it might be worth the effort to see how the landing at Midway goes, I think you have enough there to easily beat back a Bde only. He might use the KB to do a strike on Midway Then when he has his forces engaged at Midway move in from the NW to get behind him and cut off his line of retreat. He won't expect an attack from behind. I am not a fan of the all fighter defense, but it work for Muhammed Ali.

The danger is that we do not know for sure that the Brigade mentioned in SigInt is the only unit coming. If he did manage to land enough to take Midway, that would be painful.


+1, Midway really should have high forts and more support. Allied tactical options are kind are limited because of it.

Do you have an AR/AS/AE/AGP/AD up in the Aleutians?

One of the great competitive advantages the Allies have is destroyers, and you should have plentiful ADs to support them on the front lines. Nothing scarier to Japan than the full speed Fletcher raid with P38s providing some LRCAP.

The other interesting tactic is to put AB on Midway with night naval strafing orders and look to maximize your night dls. They can be quite devastating. IJN CVs usually like to burn which raises dls even more.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/20/2020 3:39:25 PM >

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Post #: 2168
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 3:45:17 PM   
RangerJoe


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A unit switching prep at the last minute, if 100% prepared for the initial target might only have 33% prep for the new target. But that might be enough for the second wave attackers.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2169
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 4:20:05 PM   
Anachro


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Yes, I need to get better at using my auxiliaries. I have all the above up in the Aleutians. Keep in mind I only control half of them. Adak, etc. have lots of Japanese fighters, bombers, but I have plentiful of each of those up there as well.

I have had no indications whatsoever of additional invasion troops. Even then, it will be tough, as John would need sustained attack and bombardment, whereas I can more easily reinforce from Hawaii. I have 160 AV on the island already with level 4 forts. Everyone keeps wondering about the psyops of the attack, but its pretty clear to me this was the brute force main attack with little subterfuge beyond the fact that John initially tried to hide his main KB to the north for some sort of swooping-down attack on my ships leaving Pearl as they came to Midway's relief. When this was discovered, main KB moved down to accompany the invasion force. The convoy we did see had 28 transports, and given that Japanese ships have troop capacity, the brigade could also be divided further among those. Given that, as Bif said, there is at least 29 divisons of the 4th Brigade, this is undoubtedly the force carrying it.

If there are further reinforcements planned, I have not seen it in the sigint. In fact, the only heavy radio activity for the day is sighted in the hex where we see five Japanese task forces currently. Anyways, I'll be putting in initial orders with images as a proposition after Lowpe's comments. The key here is to avoid having my CVEs run into John's SCTFs.

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Post #: 2170
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 4:33:49 PM   
Anachro


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Frankly, I think its an open question if John continues with the landing. I'll happily take that if he does.

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Post #: 2171
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 6:16:25 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro
after Lowpe's comments


Make sure you make it your own plan as I have no clue on all the variables: leadership, ship types, ops point, weather, moon, fuel levels, DLs, etc., etc.


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Post #: 2172
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 6:34:35 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Yes, I need to get better at using my auxiliaries. I have all the above up in the Aleutians. Keep in mind I only control half of them. Adak, etc. have lots of Japanese fighters, bombers, but I have plentiful of each of those up there as well.

I have had no indications whatsoever of additional invasion troops. Even then, it will be tough, as John would need sustained attack and bombardment, whereas I can more easily reinforce from Hawaii. I have 160 AV on the island already with level 4 forts. Everyone keeps wondering about the psyops of the attack, but its pretty clear to me this was the brute force main attack with little subterfuge beyond the fact that John initially tried to hide his main KB to the north for some sort of swooping-down attack on my ships leaving Pearl as they came to Midway's relief. When this was discovered, main KB moved down to accompany the invasion force. The convoy we did see had 28 transports, and given that Japanese ships have troop capacity, the brigade could also be divided further among those. Given that, as Bif said, there is at least 29 divisons of the 4th Brigade, this is undoubtedly the force carrying it.

If there are further reinforcements planned, I have not seen it in the sigint. In fact, the only heavy radio activity for the day is sighted in the hex where we see five Japanese task forces currently. Anyways, I'll be putting in initial orders with images as a proposition after Lowpe's comments. The key here is to avoid having my CVEs run into John's SCTFs.


As a reminder, here is a link to a thread on the auxillaries. Some of them do word as repair vessels so they are doubly useful.

quote:

TENDERS and SUPPORT/AUXILLARY SHIP GUIDE
Special credit to and inspired by wwengr.
Includes citations to source (except recommended uses).


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920431

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 2173
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 6:55:43 PM   
Anachro


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Yes, I know their function; I'm just not detail-oriented to use them enough. I'll make an effort to get them to forward bases for the future.

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Post #: 2174
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 7:41:06 PM   
Anachro


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We'll see what happens; I opted to send my DDs and CA/DD force in at flank speed, with one DD moving down to intercept anything coming at Midway. The cruisers and one DD TF are trying to move west and down. My undamaged CVEs and my BB task forces move at flank speed slightly north and then to the west. Naval strike setting of distance of 4. My damaged CVEs fleet at flank speed to the northeast.

Nice thing is my PTs are all around the enemy task forces, so he should run into them and hopefully use up more ammo.

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Post #: 2175
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 8:37:36 PM   
Lowpe


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Good luck.

My prediction. John looks for surface engagements while moving most of the KB present to 1 hex of Midway. The invasion goes in, hoping that 29 ships can unload the entire brigade in one go. At least one bombardment will happen at Midway. He will probably precede the invasion and bombardments with small surface SAGs to clear away the trash. He might strike Midway with some air assets.

Probably one CV fleet will follow behind the aggressive SAGs hunting your CVEs, most likely on intercept back to Pearl, this is to absorb any possible air strikes from your CVEs so it will be defensive with strike at short range.

He might surge one CV fleet flank speed to get between you and Pearl, he has a speed advantage over your CVEs and is most likely trying to coordinate a night naval battles with another short range aerial strike depending upon how many bombers are left, or they may simply zoom far hoping to catch any support fleets in the area without fighter coverage.

I think your move with the CVE will surprise him, one hopes he doesn't have great night naval search (unlikely), and doesn't let his SAGs react too far (unlikely) or that he gives direct/absolute orders (likely). A little depends if he uses patrol orders or to hex orders and return to base.

The other option he retreats. That doesn't sound like John. He has speed, and thinks a decisive advantage in surface ships (I think). If he spotted some of the slow battleships, I am sure he is really pumped. Course I don't know ammo levels, fuel levels, bombers left, whether he can fly in replacements etc.

Well good luck!

I hope your 4 range aerial strike isn't too much...




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Post #: 2176
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/20/2020 9:11:09 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Interesting position - the IJ warships are a long way from a safe port, and I don't fancy the IJ chances of taking Midway given the defence.

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Post #: 2177
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/21/2020 2:07:40 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Ah, no worries, Anachro. I see you did describe it as an Amphib TF earlier.

It does looks like the whole TF is dedicated to hauling the one brigade, though. Barring some seriously bad die rolls I'd say you're quite safe.

Good luck!

Cheers,
CB

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April 11th, 1944 - 8/21/2020 11:17:58 PM   
Anachro


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April 11th, 1944

Not the big battle we were expecting. John flees, perhaps in the direction that makes the most sense and one I had though he would do if he did flee: southwest. Unfortunately, my ships had gone in a direction more towards Wake Island. More unhappily, John gets some DL on most of my TFs. The one good piece of news is that a submarine does manage to plant two torpedoes into the CVL Ryujo, which shows heavy damage. If she is slowed down enough, there might be interesting tactical possibilities.


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Post #: 2179
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 3:35:07 AM   
Lowpe


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What is an AME?

Is that pretty much all he has....perhaps you have really depleted his ammo? Where are his oilers?

Funny to be outmaneuvered by CVEs. How low is your fuel stocks?

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Post #: 2180
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 4:12:34 AM   
Anachro


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Fuel stocks below, but I do have oilers lurking in behind. I can flank run in with my destroyers a little bit, as well as cruisers, but not too far. I should note John put his BBs and CB in his his carriers and they engaged my PTs multiple times. The ammo of his BBs and other ships has been further depleted. Oh, and I think the AME thing is actually just an AM and/or E. Probably fog of war with those identifications, I'd guess escorts of some sort.



< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/22/2020 4:15:34 AM >

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Post #: 2181
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 4:40:48 AM   
RangerJoe


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How about an AM plus an E in the same task force. It looks like there is a space there.

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Post #: 2182
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 4:15:00 PM   
Anachro


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In addition to the CVL Ryujo taking two torpedoes, John's surface ships engaged my PTs a number of times again, using up even more precious ammo. His CLs, DDs, CAs, BBs, and CB all face PTs numerous times. The PTs, as with last turn, meet CVs, but the CVs avoid torpedoes and damage. I'd imagine a few of his BBs and cruisers and perhaps DDs are out of ammo. I'd wager BB Shinano is not out of ammo, but certainly at the half way point at best. This turn, I flank my CVEs down 8 hexes and my DDs and cruiser against at flank to see if we can reach any enemy ships. If not, we'll retire. We have to beware of bombers from Wake Island. I speed up my AO's so they'll be able to refuel whatever ships might need it.

My damaged CVEs are undetected and fine for the moment. I send numerous ASW escorts to join up with them and protect them. The one CVE, Liscome Bay, that took 3 torpedoes is probably at greatest risk with her slow speed. She's up to 70 flotation damage this turn due to a flank run away.

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Post #: 2183
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 4:28:52 PM   
Lowpe


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Doing well.

What can Wake throw at you? Can't be much. I would be tempted to draw an attack just to shoot the planes down.

It would be neat to keep between wake and his TFs.

How is Burma coming along?


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Post #: 2184
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 4:34:14 PM   
Anachro


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We should take Prome this next turn. Then we can move to consolidate other areas and further cutoff his forces stranded. CVs and BBs are moving down to cover transports bringing supplies and engineers/base units to Rangoon. Additional troops being also landed at Moulmein, which is being a bit difficult to take. I'm working on setting up continuous bombardment from Rangoon when I can.

John tried a few long-range strikes with his 4E Liz bombers at Townsville (~50 A/C) and also to try and defend Prome. I think they took more damage in flak than they caused; I didn't even have CAP up at Townsville, my fighters were training.

quote:

Ground combat at Prome (55,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 48898 troops, 933 guns, 621 vehicles, Assault Value = 1386

Defending force 17892 troops, 262 guns, 88 vehicles, Assault Value = 357

Allied adjusted assault: 130

Japanese adjusted defense: 64

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
3143 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 131 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 61 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 71 (42 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 16 (10 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
570 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled

Assaulting units:
40th Infantry Division
5th Indian Division
XXXIII Corps Engineer Battalion
43rd Infantry Division
9th Australian Division

Defending units:
2nd Guards Division
1st Raiding Regiment
16th Garrison Unit
23rd AA Regiment
4th Air Defense AA Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
38th JNAF AF Unit
26th Fld AA Gun Co
50th Field AA Battalion
33rd JAAF AF Coy

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2185
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 8:04:36 PM   
Lowpe


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Overall, this battle highlights IJN weakness even in this mod.

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Post #: 2186
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 9:25:10 PM   
RangerJoe


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Just think if the ships on that Midway operation were in the IO opposing this. But that is defensive . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2187
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/22/2020 11:11:13 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro
Not the big battle we were expecting. John flees, perhaps in the direction that makes the most sense and one I had though he would do if he did flee: southwest.

Well, he has a lot of transports to cover, he can't really flee far. You don't even need flank speed runs to engage, just mission speed run into a general area to a patrol point with maximum reaction range set.

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 2188
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/23/2020 12:08:16 AM   
Anachro


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Next turn run. Unfortunately, CVE Liscome Bay is found by a sub and sunk. John's main KB and battleships flee northwest and are 9 hexes from my CVEs. This is probably diversionary to cover his fleeing transports and damaged CVL that based on the turn seem to have headed further south. We continue south towards these targets. In other news, the base of Prome falls. It looks like the Guard Division was destroyed in the process. Only a couple destroyers find enemy ships, running into 2 CAs. In a weird battle, the 2 Japanese CAs manage to plant a torpedo into the Allied DDs.

quote:

Ground combat at Prome (55,50)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 48309 troops, 933 guns, 620 vehicles, Assault Value = 1335

Defending force 14739 troops, 203 guns, 80 vehicles, Assault Value = 133

Allied adjusted assault: 138

Japanese adjusted defense: 10

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Prome !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-C Irving: 7 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
4673 casualties reported
Squads: 180 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 296 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 22 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 93 (92 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 54 (54 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 6
Units destroyed 3

Allied ground losses:
378 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled

Assaulting units:
40th Infantry Division
XXXIII Corps Engineer Battalion
43rd Infantry Division
5th Indian Division
9th Australian Division

Defending units:
1st Raiding Regiment
2nd Guards Division
16th Garrison Unit
26th Fld AA Gun Co
23rd AA Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
4th Air Defense AA Regiment
38th JNAF AF Unit
50th Field AA Battalion
33rd JAAF AF Coy



(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 2189
RE: April 11th, 1944 - 8/23/2020 2:51:58 AM   
Anachro


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The plan in the Indian theater now is to, of course consolidate Rangoon and Burma, setup supply routes to get supplies to Rangoon and create airfields for bombers, especially my new B29s. As soon as possible we will land at Victoria Point, which is looks like John is rushing to reinforce from the other side at Chumpon with multiple sigint showing some brigades being sent there by boat. I hope to move down the Malayan peninsula to eventually reach Singapore, helped of course by landings along the coast. Sabang is a target, though surely expected by John, but nonetheless one that can focused on; and as I build up bases in the area, I can restrict John's ability to mount a defensive effort to hold or take back Sabang like he did in CR's game. I can then walk down towards Palembang perhaps. The narrow passageways between the Malayan peninsula and Sumatra can be a scary place for my capital ships to operate.

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 2190
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