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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/18/2020 9:59:23 PM   
Cheesesteak


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

April 9th, 1944

The plan revealed. John will most likely attempt landings and his force is covered by one carrier force; furthermore he has another KB force that was hiding in the north, perhaps planning to try to come down on any Allied force sallying from Hawaii, very reminiscent of the actual Japanese Midway plan in a way. The real question is this: I now have 160 AV at Midway with level 4 forts. I can move back and simply let him try first before moving in. On the other hand, I am in prime position to potentially meet John's carriers in a turn with my fighters. While his carrier force is quite sizable, I do have a large advantage in fighters, at least based on the current numbers I'm seeing. I could move forward with CAP set to the full 100% for all 600 fighters to try and decimate his carriers bombers and make this a pure SCTF fight. I have lots of combat ships.

What would you do?




Does he genuinely believe Midway will be a sustained base from him, or is he trying to break up your plans? I suspect it's the latter. I find it hard to believe he thinks he can support Midway, so you'd potentially see him evac after the first failed shock. It may not be worth a can of Spam, but i'd say go for his planes and ships.

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/18/2020 10:04:54 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

April 9th, 1944

The plan revealed. John will most likely attempt landings and his force is covered by one carrier force; furthermore he has another KB force that was hiding in the north, perhaps planning to try to come down on any Allied force sallying from Hawaii, very reminiscent of the actual Japanese Midway plan in a way. The real question is this: I now have 160 AV at Midway with level 4 forts. I can move back and simply let him try first before moving in. On the other hand, I am in prime position to potentially meet John's carriers in a turn with my fighters. While his carrier force is quite sizable, I do have a large advantage in fighters, at least based on the current numbers I'm seeing. I could move forward with CAP set to the full 100% for all 600 fighters to try and decimate his carriers bombers and make this a pure SCTF fight. I have lots of combat ships.

What would you do?




The more I think about it, the more I think you want a fight. It's 1944. It's your turf. You have a nearby base, he doesn't. There are risks, but definitely reward here for your as well.

On your surface TFs, remember that LOWER numbered TFs usually engage first. If you can, re-arrange them so the DD TFs take lower TF numbers and engage first. That way his TFs will hopefully exhaust their ammo before they engage with your larger ships.

It will suck for the DD TFs, but that's life as a tin-can sailor!

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/18/2020 10:09:11 PM   
Lowpe


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John is soo predictable.

You should crush him, take his women and listen to their laments! Break him.

But be careful with your tactics....







< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/18/2020 10:12:05 PM >

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/18/2020 10:23:56 PM   
Anachro


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Keep in mind my force is mostly slow CVEs with one CV/CVL. This can change the outlook. Tactics, as Lowpe says, have to be very careful. I'm not sure if John has his settings for air strike or if he is purely on defensive CAP at the moment. If he was set to strike settings, I'd definitely send my force due east towards him to trigger a crippling Mariana's esque attack by him bombers. If that doesn't happen, I reveal my position for little gain. The other option is to move towards Midway to prepare to hit his weaker force, transports, and SCTFs there. The 3rd option of course is set back and wait for him to move closer before moving in, maybe after he expends his SCTF ammo on bombardments?

I should note than a number of subs you don't see appeared on the map and are hidden behind the black box showing Midway's garrison. The subs are moving in the direction of Pearl and this implied that his plans were that I wouldn't move out from Pearl until after his forces were spotted. No doubt the subs are meant to detect anything coming. He has no idea that my forces, like at the historical Midway, have moved north to be east of Midway, nor have any patrols spotted my ships.


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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/18/2020 10:48:56 PM   
RangerJoe


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If you can generate PT boats at Midway, send waves of them in first then your small DD forces.

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Post #: 2135
RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 1:00:35 AM   
Anachro


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The turn is away. I opted to simply move my TFs together slightly southwest towards Midway to maintain air protection for one more day on the TFs; it has a good chance of being in range of enemy CV strikes and hopefully absorbing and wrecking John's strike ability. Then the SCTFs will go hunting the next day. In addition, multiple PT squads are heading directly west towards John's invasion TFs, hopefully they sink something, more importantly I hope they deplete enemy ammo.

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 2:26:32 AM   
Lowpe


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We will see if John gets busy all of a sudden. Good plan.

I probably would have been even more aggressive, depending what is at Midway. An AD, along with say 100 fighters, I would have sent scads of multiple destroyers to the invasion staging area west of Midway with a home port of Midway.

Bear in mind, I have no experience using multiple small task forces as Allies, but I think they would work pretty well, plus they would draw only small air strikes from his carriers that the CAP could tear into.

So, a raid and a Cap Trap all in one. Might have backed the CVE force off to the north and looked for an engagement on the following day...definitely set it 100% defensive.

Don't use your slow battleships. Not worth it, I think. They are so tricky to use in combat. Save them to counter bombard if the IJ actually invades.

He has to expect scads of PT boats though...doesn't he?

Try to get some subs behind him.

Your APD TF spotted previously will actually embolden him I think.

That Dot base should fall to Japan, if they are serious. It really should have a small garrison and be flying naval search out of. Would have been fun to have a ton of disbanded PT boats hiding there, and let John alone until tomorrow...

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 4:37:53 AM   
Anachro


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Yes, I had considered much of what you said. The big problem for me is I'd most likely be detected the following day if I hung back while trying to straddle a range from which I could act the following day. In this mod, Japan gets some very nice longer-rang dedicated scout units on her carriers. Rather than doing this, though the reward on success might be greater, I opt for sending things in this turn to have a higher chance of getting a nice absorption of any strike sent against my 100% CAP.

The invasion TF seems to be moving 6-7 hexes a turn, so I should reach it with my PTs, doubly so if John speeds up the invasion TF on the way in to get it to the beaches sooner. Not sure if John expect PTs, because we haven't had a chance to use them too much, he has not seen them from recon on previous turns, and might think we don't have the supply to create PTs on short notice at Midway.

For reference, these are the scout planes on Japanese carriers. He might have the Myrt now, who knows, with that radius very hard to sneak up on him. He could be employing the Kate recon plane with its very viable 12-hex range. This is how he discovered me so early as I was approaching Wake.


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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 11:31:45 AM   
Lowpe


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Myrt and Judy are stock, and normally only a very few squadrons can upgrade to them. Judy though is heavily modded.

That Kate is just damn nasty. How the hell does it even have a bomb & reduced load? Judy has a bomb load too. He must never use the Myrt since he didn't give them a bomb load too. Must be nice to have MAD and Radar. Sheesh.

Do the Allies get anything similar, i.e. CV capable Recon with bomb loads?

That is one heck of an insidious advantage.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 11:38:42 AM >

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 11:39:23 AM   
Anachro


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No, I do not believe so, at least I haven't seen them but I can double-check, nor do we get dedicated recon squad units. The main Japanese carriers start with a fourth air unit, a 3-plane recon unit. The starting plane for these units is the Kate above. Anyways, no email back from John yet.

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 12:34:46 PM   
Bearcat2

 

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US doesn't get CV capable Recon units in this mod. The JP 3 plane recon units can be resized and are not restricted in their upgrade path to Recon units, can be upgraded to the normal Naval planes.

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RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 12:52:32 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

US doesn't get CV capable Recon units in this mod. The JP 3 plane recon units can be resized and are not restricted in their upgrade path to Recon units, can be upgraded to the normal Naval planes.


Ouch!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 2142
RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 1:29:17 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

US doesn't get CV capable Recon units in this mod. The JP 3 plane recon units can be resized and are not restricted in their upgrade path to Recon units, can be upgraded to the normal Naval planes.

Is the F4F-3P not in this mod?

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Post #: 2143
RE: April 9th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 1:35:46 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearcat2

US doesn't get CV capable Recon units in this mod. The JP 3 plane recon units can be resized and are not restricted in their upgrade path to Recon units, can be upgraded to the normal Naval planes.


No reason ever to convert them to normal naval planes. They give Japan too much of a competitive advantage as recon. A shocking amount.

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April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 2:19:34 PM   
Anachro


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April 10th, 1944

The turn is in, all in all a good day, though some bombers do get through my CAP to bomb my CVEs, more worrying are the torpedoes that hit. 4 CVEs are damaged to soe significant degree which, all things considered, I'm happy with. Japanese strike aircraft are very, very significantly degraded. Even better, John's SCTFs should have used up a LOT of ammo in engaging my PTs. If I were John, I'd retreat. Knowing John, he might not retreat and his email certainly gives off that vibe, but who knows. I wonder how much recon he has of my SCTFs and not just my carriers. If he just thinks my carriers are there, he might try to move up for some surface action. I'll probably have my slow BB's accompany my damaged CVEs back to Pearl and move forward with my undamaged CVEs, CV/CVL, and my CA/DD, DD, and Fast BB/DD SCTFs.


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Post #: 2145
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 2:47:39 PM   
Anachro


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BB Shinano is a Yamato-class BB. John has a number of BBs in the formation. Unfortunately most of the PTs hit the invasion convoy and thus depleted the ammo of the BBs in that formation.

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 3:20:22 PM   
Evoken

 

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Thats a massive hit to KB strike capability , well done sir! Whats concerning is lack of flak kills , did someone nerf Allied AA in this mod ?

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 3:36:11 PM   
Anachro


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No, but the CVE TFs were using DEs as escorts as almost all the high AA stuff (DDs and CAs/BBs) were dedicated to either my SCTFs or my CV/CVL task force. Thus the AA on the CVE/DE TFs was lower; nonetheless, the flak kills should certainly be higher despite that you are right. In retrospect I probably should have embdedded the AA in my CVEs/CVs more for the absorption phase before transferring them to the SCTFs. That said, my SCTFs all have good TF commanders.

I hope this kills off the last of the KB's crack bomber units.

Those N1K2-A George's are real beasts to escort those bombers through that CAP to the degree they did.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/19/2020 3:37:27 PM >

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 3:44:16 PM   
Cheesesteak


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Well done! The VP haul doesn't hurt either

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Post #: 2149
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 3:59:06 PM   
Anachro


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PF ASW task force also sunk a Japanese sub between Pearl and Midway. What I would give to have Lowpe devise my tactics for tomorrow as I feel like a child compared to him...

In other news, it's always beautiful seeing my carrier pilots get training and kills.


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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 4:05:26 PM   
Lowpe


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Congratulations.

Those Georges must be very good.

He might surge at you and attempt a general naval engagement depending upon ammo levels.

Goodness, he is still one full day away from landing on Midway.

Anyway you can get recon on Wake?

Is there an AGP at Midway?

Definitely look at improving flak makeup of your task forces. You might want to consider embedding the slow battleships with the CVEs...I believe they offer a very good flak package and will divert attention away from the CVEs. But that is for the future, I doubt he can attack again in the air. He can defend however, I wouldn't launch a retaliatory air strike, but rather think about a naval fight with careful tactics and some CAP out of Midway.

The other good aspect is that his remaining squadrons should have shattered morale.

A lot of AFBs like using their CVEs as disposable, try to avoid thinking like that.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 4:09:11 PM >

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 4:10:15 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

PF ASW task force also sunk a Japanese sub between Pearl and Midway. What I would give to have Lowpe devise my tactics


You will always be better, you have way more information than I have. All I can give is general ideas.

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 6:24:35 PM   
BBfanboy


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Point Luck lives up to its name again!

You got some very good die rolls on the torpedo damage - three hits should be enough to put down any CVE.

Strange that among all your pilots not one made his Ace qualification that turn!

I like how your subs are positioned to make further progress toward Midway AND retreat painful! Good Luck!

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 7:11:53 PM   
Anachro


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I, too, was amazed by the damage rolls on the torpedo hits. John sent me an email saying to hold off on the turn because "[he] was so engrossed [in] the Midway fracas that [he] rushed the turn and completely forgot about Burma." Don't know what that means, but I of course told him that's fine. He'll return the turn some time tonight.

I'm guessing John will try to come at me with his surface ships. If I had to guess the strategy, it would be going back west with his carriers and splitting off any viable surface units such as BCs, CAs, and DDs from his carrier TFs to supplement his SCTFs for a naval engagement. This is what I expect and if that's the case I think his surface naval power outweighs mine. This is tempered by the fact his two main BB SCTFs used all or some of their ammo. However, the surface ships that were in his carrier TFs have not used any. I expect him to move forward with all these at flank speed towards my ships. My numerous DD task forces will, of course, head directly toward his forces. The question is what to do with my slow BB/DD TFs, my one fast BB/DD TF, and my CA/DD TF. Perhaps patrol around Midway to stop anything coming while my CVEs move to the east of Midway. Might need to split off my one 6-knot damaged CVE to move faster.

Anyways, I'll prob post an image with initial thoughts on plans tonight, with the orders happening some time tomorrow.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/19/2020 7:13:17 PM >

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 7:39:54 PM   
Anachro


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Eh, I'll post it now so you can get the best possible sense of the situation. This gives full knowledge of my SCTFs and best possible knowledge of enemy SCTF strength. Note, fighters and some TBs from damaged CVEs diverted to Midway, which now has ~50 fighters. This might not be the final allocation of my SCTFs, just initial thoughts on a conservative distribution of forces. I will of course be beefing up patrol aircraft at Midway to run both night and day naval searches.



< Message edited by Anachro -- 8/19/2020 7:45:32 PM >

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Post #: 2155
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 8:02:47 PM   
Lowpe


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How much Naval Support is there at Midway?

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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 8:06:58 PM   
Anachro


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Not much, 14+12 shore party, level 4 port. 45k supply.


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RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 8:35:53 PM   
ny59giants


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USN 'should' have recon planes. I know the latest version has them in increased numbers. There was an issues in a version I had played into '45 where the re-sizing of air groups on Essex CVs had eliminated the groups. They come in as LBA to avoid this issue and dividable so there is enough for 3 planes per Essex CV.

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Post #: 2158
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 8:38:14 PM   
Lowpe


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I probably would head north, north east or north west towards Alaska.

You could still send the destroyer task forces in at flank speed and have them retire to Midway, it can at least reload 5" ammo if not damaged. He will surely send something there, so send a destroyer tf or two there to patrol 0 range. Or you could abandon Midway for a day and move everything to a staging position to the north, northeast, northwest. I would probably send the destroyer in, but probably have one squadron flank around and go deep with a patrol area and generous engagement range behind the IJN fleet and points west (along their axis of advance) home port in the western Aleutians so they retire that way or if you want Midway so they cause Japan to use up more ammo.

Let him spend a flank speed run chasing you...then come back when he is lower on fuel and ammo.

The other more aggressive option is to head west, north west, to 7-9 hexes off Midway while still sending the destroyers in like above.

Have the damaged CVEs flee to Aleutians.

For all any subs with dl 10 go west to establish a cordon for damaged shipping, give intel on what is following.

Finally, he most aggressive is a flank speed west, and then south move with the heavy cruisers looking to get behind Johns armada while putting the CVE and BB in that 7 hex range from Midway to the west, north west while still sending the destroyers in. Make sure the Cruisers have high number task force numbers and good night search with generous engagements. And good fuel stocks.

On the aggressive moves you are really relying upon your destroyers stopping a majority of the advancing IJN SAGs, and or diverting them south of your CVEs.

Can you spawn more PT boats?

You probably can safely set up a 1-3 hex aerial naval strike depending upon where you chose to go.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/19/2020 8:42:14 PM >

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Post #: 2159
RE: April 10th, 1944 - 8/19/2020 8:42:57 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

USN 'should' have recon planes. I know the latest version has them in increased numbers. There was an issues in a version I had played into '45 where the re-sizing of air groups on Essex CVs had eliminated the groups. They come in as LBA to avoid this issue and dividable so there is enough for 3 planes per Essex CV.


Good to see you posting, hope all is well!

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