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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy?

 
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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/8/2019 8:49:25 PM   
scout1


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Graphics ….
No Campaign
Not intuitive play (I was a beta tester) so hard to get into too ...

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/10/2019 3:05:24 AM   
BeirutDude


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Two main reasons...

1. I have three GG games I still am trying to read through the Masters Dissertation (I.e. rules) to figure out and MAYBE one day play. So until I actually play them (as well as a few others I bought and never play) why buy this one?
2. I'm really not super interested in the Desert War, and haven't bought Tiller's PB game on the same subject either.

NOW, take this to a battle/Theater I am interested in and I'll likely buy it. Wacht am Rhein, Market-Garden, Stalingrad campaign, Typhoon, (please not another Kursk fortification & minefield slog match!) and I'd buy it. God it would be a slug fest but Germany/Berlin '45 I'd buy just because it's different!

So just my $0.02 worth

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 6/10/2019 3:27:57 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/10/2019 1:28:39 PM   
Saint Ruth


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As always, thanks for the feedback!

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/10/2019 1:30:08 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
(please not another Kursk fortification & minefield slog match!)

+1000. I love the Eastern Front, but let's give Kursk a rest...

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/10/2019 3:33:13 PM   
harley9699


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

2. I'm really not super interested in the Desert War, and haven't bought Tiller's PB game on the same subject either.



I'm really interested in the Desert War, it's been pretty neglected through the years. Have been looking hard at JT's version (have the other two, they're great).

Read too many bad things about this one though. Fix the naval and campaign and it'd pique my interest (even though... and I'm not sure... don't think they're working on this anymore. Beating a dead horse kinda thing).

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/10/2019 10:37:00 PM   
bcgames


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Someday someone will do a bang-up job on a campaign of linked Kursk scenarios using the Desert War/Stalingrad game engine--it just won't be me. Not interested.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/11/2019 12:54:47 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

...Fix the naval and campaign and it'd pique my interest (even though... and I'm not sure... don't think they're working on this anymore. Beating a dead horse kinda thing).

I've been a fan of the War in North Africa ever since Avalon Hill published Afrika Korps. The topic is a "dead horse" for many--but not for me. "They" [BK and I] are still working on a wargame engine that supports operational combat operations. Desert War was the first step; the foundation step. Stalingrad will expand the foundation. Follow-on game topics will only be pursued if they expand the capabilities of the wargame engine. Retrofitting our published games to the "current standard" is our goal--as John Tiller has done with his games. Until we get there, I highly recommended his Panzer Campaigns series of wargames. After all these years--he's still keeping these fine titles up to date.

Check him out:

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/


< Message edited by bcgames -- 6/11/2019 12:57:17 AM >


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/11/2019 3:06:15 PM   
harley9699


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

...Fix the naval and campaign and it'd pique my interest (even though... and I'm not sure... don't think they're working on this anymore. Beating a dead horse kinda thing).

I've been a fan of the War in North Africa ever since Avalon Hill published Afrika Korps. Until we get there, I highly recommended his Panzer Campaigns series of wargames. After all these years--he's still keeping these fine titles up to date.

Check him out:

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/



That's exactly the series I was alluding to when I mentioned "JT's version". Both Battle of Normandy and Battle of Kursk are excellent games. Those two and his new Africa one are the Panzer Campaigns series.
Plus, if you've ever played a Tiller game, there's little to no learning curve. :)
It's very good to know you guys are still working on this and future games too.


< Message edited by harley9699 -- 6/11/2019 3:07:50 PM >

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 6/16/2019 7:29:17 AM   
Meteor2


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Looking back, for me the unit density / stacking was a concern. I looked to much like work.
I don't have this feeling with the whole SC series and the Decisive Campaign series either.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/2/2019 6:14:02 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meteor2
I[t] looked to much like work.

Heard. We'll try to do better with the next game. Thanks for the feedback.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 7/2/2019 4:42:30 PM   
Vasquez


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1. The theatre. I prefer Eastern Front games.
2. Since a while I prefer Grand Strategy games as well where I have at least some control about production and distribution of equippment.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/5/2019 2:40:57 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vasquez

1. The theatre. I prefer Eastern Front games.

From what we have told you so far, will you buy Stalingrad?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vasquez
2. Since a while I prefer Grand Strategy games as well where I have at least some control about production and distribution of equipment.

There are no "production decisions" in Stalingrad but you will have the power to make decisions about how personnel and equipment replacement points are distributed. Does this get you any closer to buying the next game?


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/8/2019 12:04:26 AM   
Vasquez


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Sounds good.

Will für new game have a campaign? If so then yes. If Not Ill pass.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/9/2019 6:08:00 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vasquez

...Will für new game have a campaign? If so then yes. If Not Ill pass.

If I perceive correctly the gist of your question the answer is no. There will not be a campaign game you can play that starts on 23 July 1942 and ends on 2 February 1943. That's 489 turns at an average of two day/one night turn per day.

However, there will be a set of campaign games that propel a single division or corps level units across the same calendar dates that focus on a narrative of peak combat activity.


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/17/2019 8:57:17 PM   
Vasquez


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Okay!

Will the game be released on Steam as well?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/20/2019 2:14:11 AM   
bcgames


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I am for releasing any of our games by any means pursued by any would-be publisher.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 9/25/2019 2:16:32 AM   
bcgames


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So...why didn't you buy Desert War? We need to know. We have four more games planned and then the party is over I think. I'm not a spring chicken anymore. Let us know your druthers about your way ahead.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/7/2019 2:50:19 AM   
Ralph1961


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I’m going to purchase Desert war with my anniversary coupon. I’ve read a little about the game and the reviews aren’t good. Seems there are lots of units and the game is more like work than a game. I hope I’m not making a mistake but if so I can afford the price.
Is The next game in the series Stalingrad?
I’m hoping this game is somewhat similar to Atomic games Operation Crusader or better yet the SSG tiles that Matrix released in the mid 2000s

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/7/2019 5:24:48 AM   
bcgames


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph1961
Is The next game in the series Stalingrad?

Yes, it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph1961
I’m going to purchase Desert war with my anniversary coupon. I’ve read a little about the game and the reviews aren’t good. Seems there are lots of units and the game is more like work than a game. I hope I’m not making a mistake but if so I can afford the price.

If you are interested in the Campaign for North Africa and the WEGO game system, then this would be a good use of your anniversary coupon. "Lots of units" is a subjective criteria that depends on the player. As a player and a scenario designer for the game I find that the "lots of units" criteria only applies to the El Alamein scenario...BUT it plays for those who want it to.

Bottomline? Want the game and you will be happy with your purchase. Question the game given the reviews and you will prolly find a better destination for your anniversary coupon. Either way, we are glad to have received your consideration; but only you know the games you like--ao go there! I would if I were you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph1961
I’m hoping this game is somewhat similar to Atomic games Operation Crusader or better yet the SSG tiles that Matrix released in the mid 2000s

We are second cousins to Atomic Games and a third cousin to Panzer Campaigns. We like to think we bring the two systems together with our own twist to the game dynamic.

Everybody doesn't like that approach. If you think it's in your ballpark--well...there you shall go.

Good luck in making your decision.


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/27/2019 3:49:59 AM   
Ralph1961


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I went ahead and purchased the game but I haven't had time to play it yet. I plan on looking thru the tutorial videos to get an idea of how things work.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/27/2019 4:31:40 AM   
bcgames


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I am happy to coach you. I'll teach you the game system if you are interested. Just let me know. Multiplayer isn't hard or frightening; it's fun and a friend-finding experience. So...exit the "AI-only" bunker and give it a try. I'll help you until you get too good. ;-)

Let's Go! Jump in!

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/27/2019 4:30:36 PM   
lastkozak


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I am a big fan of the Desert War. Loved many of the old board Desert War games. I wanted to be a beta tester for this one, but was not accepted. :(

Why I have not yet purchased it?
It was and is pricey, if you want the CD and manual and box; I prefer them so I can reload them when I want to. (I waited 4 years before buying GGWITW, for that reason).
In the old days you bought a game, and you could play it with others. These days, you buy the game and can only play with somebody else who bought the game. So I need to convince old war game buddies to buy it too (and they have to convince their marital partners to let them spend the money)!

The other option is play people on the forum, but many times I find that it is a person with several handles who claims to be inexperienced, but are a serious player who just likes winning, so they act like they are novice and beat real novices, who lose interest in the game; especially if they are later ridiculed online for losing. Too bad handles cannot be linked up to the version of the game the person is playing on; thus you see how long the person has been playing.

I have never obtained a good explanation of how WEGO works? Anything I read on line, describes the idea of planned turns, and then a computer which plays both players turns out at the same time. Like the old board airwar games, Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men. If it is not, then there is a problem explaining WEGO.

I see many units in the videos, and understand people's complaint, although it does not intimidate me that much. Although adding units together into larger units, may be helpful. I like the way GGWITW allows battalion sized units to appear or disappear. Wish GGWITW had a 1940-43 Desert Scenario.

Desert War does not have a campaign game! Fighting scenarios can be fun, but I like to be part of the big picture; GGWITE is great for that, but GGWITW is basically a scenario game, and thus is not as interesting for that reason. When one thinks Desert in WW2, one thinks of Rommel, Montgomery, Wavell, Alexander, and Patton, they do not think of minor commanders, or one or two battles, as each battle was only a brick in the entire Desert War. One thinks, bomb Malta, to prevent interference from supplies, or Defend Malta at all costs, to interdict supplies going to the Axis.

I remember when somebody attempted to create CWIE 2; they created a scenario for the invasion of Poland, and this was free. Everybody got to see how it worked and play it, leading to feedback and improved aspects of the game, and people awaiting in anticipation for the whole CWIE2. CWIE2 never used any AI, you played a human or played with yourself .

If there was a free download of the game to play one scenario, maybe the tutorial, it would give me a better idea how the game functions and if I wanted to purchase the entire one.

I am somewhat surprised Desert War did not take off as much as other games have. That said, when I first viewed it, I was planning on buying it until I realized there was no campaign game. I wait til game prices drop, or can get them cheap enough that the price is worth the risk of finding out, if it is a good game or not; I am tired of buying games and then realizing they are not that good, or won't hold my attention long enough, or can't find anybody but a computer to play against.

last kozak


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 10/28/2019 6:22:49 AM   
bcgames


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Thanks for taking the time to share your views on this question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak

I am a big fan of the Desert War. Loved many of the old board Desert War games. I wanted to be a beta tester for this one, but was not accepted. :(

Can't speak to this. I was not involved in the selection process for beta testers. I am 100% in control of alpha testing for Stalingrad. So stay tuned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
Why I have not yet purchased it?
It was and is pricey, if you want the CD and manual and box; I prefer them so I can reload them when I want to. (I waited 4 years before buying GGWITW, for that reason).

I follow the same rules in game purchase...some I buy right out the door. Some I wait for sale. Some I'm not interested in at any price.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
In the old days you bought a game, and you could play it with others. These days, you buy the game and can only play with somebody else who bought the game. So I need to convince old war game buddies to buy it too (and they have to convince their marital partners to let them spend the money)!

Yep.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
The other option is play people on the forum, but many times I find that it is a person with several handles who claims to be inexperienced, but are a serious player who just likes winning, so they act like they are novice and beat real novices, who lose interest in the game; especially if they are later ridiculed online for losing. Too bad handles cannot be linked up to the version of the game the person is playing on; thus you see how long the person has been playing.

If you buy Desert War, I have a standing offer to play you on-line and answer your questions on how to play. I just bought WARPLAN and am being seriously schooled on-line. But I'm learning the game.

You want to learn Desert War? I'll teach you. Ask questions--I'll answer to the best of my ability. You want to play Desert War competitively--say so. Then I'm playing to win. That's where I stand on this point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I have never obtained a good explanation of how WEGO works? Anything I read on line, describes the idea of planned turns, and then a computer which plays both players turns out at the same time. Like the old board airwar games, Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men. If it is not, then there is a problem explaining WEGO.

In WEGO, you create a plan...plot moves, attacks, defenses, or twiddle your thumbs--your opponent does the same. The computer then resolves/de-conflicts each players planned moves, attacks, defenses, thumb twiddlin'. "Dauntless, or Midway, Wooden Ships and Iron men" don't ring any bells as examples of WEGO for me--too many years in my rear view mirror. The best board game example for me is GDW's Operation Crusader (I have three copies!):

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5058/operation-crusader

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I see many units in the videos, and understand people's complaint, although it does not intimidate me that much. Although adding units together into larger units, may be helpful. I like the way GGWITW allows battalion sized units to appear or disappear. Wish GGWITW had a 1940-43 Desert Scenario.

El Alamein is a stack-fest. But as an experienced player I view that as a solvable puzzle--it just wasn't the best scenario to include with the game. GGWITW 1940-43 Desert War will get my right-out-the-door dollar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
Desert War does not have a campaign game! Fighting scenarios can be fun, but I like to be part of the big picture; GGWITE is great for that, but GGWITW is basically a scenario game, and thus is not as interesting for that reason. When one thinks Desert in WW2, one thinks of Rommel, Montgomery, Wavell, Alexander, and Patton, they do not think of minor commanders, or one or two battles, as each battle was only a brick in the entire Desert War. One thinks, bomb Malta, to prevent interference from supplies, or Defend Malta at all costs, to interdict supplies going to the Axis.

As a young man, I scraped together the money to buy SPI's Campaign for North Africa. A friend and I spent a month...assisted by an Apple IIc (him) and an Apple IIe (me) computer--to play a single turn. Then we quit. We decided that the only way to play would be to computerize the whole campaign. I think that was around 1987. Here in the year 2019, I'm no closer to having the capability to produce an historically accurate, AI-supported Campaign for North Africa.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I remember when somebody attempted to create CWIE 2; they created a scenario for the invasion of Poland, and this was free. Everybody got to see how it worked and play it, leading to feedback and improved aspects of the game, and people awaiting in anticipation for the whole CWIE2. CWIE2 never used any AI, you played a human or played with yourself .

That's how Desert War Started. St Ruth needed to learn Java for work reasons. He decided to teach himself by designing a wargame. When he was done he posted it up on The Wargamer as a throw away--"I'm done--do with it as you wish..." I liked it cuz it was a fun game and it scratched my Campaign for North Africa itch. We started collaborating and here we are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
If there was a free download of the game to play one scenario, maybe the tutorial, it would give me a better idea how the game functions and if I wanted to purchase the entire one.

Good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lastkozak
I am somewhat surprised Desert War did not take off as much as other games have. That said, when I first viewed it, I was planning on buying it until I realized there was no campaign game. I wait til game prices drop, or can get them cheap enough that the price is worth the risk of finding out, if it is a good game or not; I am tired of buying games and then realizing they are not that good, or won't hold my attention long enough, or can't find anybody but a computer to play against.

I hear that. I have more bad game choices than good...board and computer. Happy faces? Gary Grigby's War in the East, Decisive Campaigns Series--especially Barbarossa, and Flashpoint Campaigns Series. I'm sure there are others. Board games? Not happy...but there are some purty, un-punched games sitting on the shelf in my office.


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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/8/2019 2:58:49 AM   
Ralph1961


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Got the game just haven’t had the time to dive into it yet. Let me check out the videos and play against the AI to learn the game then maybe I’ll let you kick my rear at PBEM.

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Post #: 144
RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/8/2019 4:25:08 AM   
bcgames


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Easiest way to learn is to get stuck in. I have two modes of play--play to teach and play to win. I enjoy both. Pick your mode when you are ready to dabble with PBEM.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/8/2019 9:33:08 AM   
AP514

 

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quote:

That's exactly the series I was alluding to when I mentioned "JT's version". Both Battle of Normandy and Battle of Kursk are excellent games. Those two and his new Africa one are the Panzer Campaigns series.
Plus, if you've ever played a Tiller game, there's little to no learning curve. :)
It's very good to know you guys are still working on this and future games too.


If the AI in JT Panzer Campaigns are anything like his ACW, Napoleonics series then I will PASS
Talk about Brain Dead-AI

I Will PASS on ANY JT's GAME that the AI is an after thought


Working on learning your game. Just purchased :))

AP514

< Message edited by AP514 -- 12/8/2019 9:37:27 AM >

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/16/2019 11:12:33 PM   
Ralph1961


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I think I have an idea of how to play now. I'm up for a learning game. What is the best scenario to play after the introductory one?

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/16/2019 11:16:20 PM   
bcgames


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I suggest Rats vs The Ram. You play the Allies.

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/16/2019 11:25:03 PM   
bcgames


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Multiplayer challenge posted.

Launch the game
Select Play
Select Multiplayer
Log-in...should be your Matrix Forum name and password
Select Accept Tab
Select Rats vs The Ram: The Battle of Bir el Gubi

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RE: Desert War: Why Didn't You Buy? - 12/17/2019 3:00:10 AM   
bcgames


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We should wait before playing this scenario. There may be a problem for people trying to implementing Update 1.0.4. Until the smart people make a pronouncement on the issues at hand, I think it best to postpone any Multiplayer game play. Sorry.

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