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Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf?

 
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Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 5/13/2018 6:10:48 AM   
Bobbybat

 

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Hi all.

Is it a good idea to attack armor=heavy enemy stacks with armor units?

Is is worthwhile attacking enemy inf heavy stacks, at least those not with some degree of fort, with armor?
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RE: Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 5/13/2018 10:34:33 AM   
loki100


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There are some quirks in the system that can be exploited.

First, there is no real concept of combined arms. So you can build very tank heavy stacks - say 3 British armoured divisions each with 3 attached armoured brigades - to no ill-effect. In reality that would have the problem of the Soviet 1941 Tank Division ToE of too many tanks and too few supporting units.

So if you ignore some of the obvious terrain issues such as the malus for armour in dense terrain or the bonus for Mtn units in mountains etc, the key is bigger is better.

Second, if an essentially motorised/armour stack attacks and wins against non-mot infantry the post battle losses escalate. If the recipient is low morale/experience/ToE this can escalate to a rout. Less common in WiTW than in WiTE but it does happen. Also if the defenders are regiments they are more vulnerable to an armoured attack than may appear from the notional cv.

So to answer your second question, yes there is an advantage to using your tanks vs infantry (if you can avoid entrenchments or restricted terrain).

To the first, you probably need to - as above you can build much bigger CV stacks with armour than with infantry so if you really need to attack a large armour based defensive stack then you need to use your armour.

In this sort of situation it can be very instructive post battle to look at what was engaged/lost/did the damage. While you have little control of the ToE below the unit counter level, you can use your support units to move key assets around.

Now I think the real question is why are you attacking the defender where they are strong? Realise at times you have no choice but in general the game system rewards finding and exploiting a weak spot. Sometimes that involves creative use of your air power to generate these circumstances. If you are the axis, I can't think of many times I'd want to attack into a position of strength, mostly your attacks should be designed to beat up an over-extended unit so you are looking for vulnerability?

Edit: I think the key advantage of armour in all the WiT... series is not its combat power but its mobility, if you have to use your tanks to make the assault you are surrendering that mobility - and, of course, there are times when you need to do just this

< Message edited by loki100 -- 5/13/2018 10:36:38 AM >


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RE: Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 5/14/2018 3:22:06 AM   
Bobbybat

 

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Yep all great points re using Armor in its 'cavalry' function rather than actual assault, but at some point you are likely (as I have in Breakout and Pursuit) to have shrunk his front to the point where there is a greater concentration of decent stacks, including a fair bit of armor. Given that, I was wondering what the best way to take on those stacks is. I really didn't get much sense of combined arms bonuses as there are sometimes in other games, hence your insight into just loading up armor div's with more armor via brigades and such like is very useful. Not terribly historical or realistic, but the game has so much detail it can't have it EVERYWHERE...

So, for those times when you just need to button up the hatches and have live rounds in the chamber, there isn't any real advantage in putting some inf into an armor div nor, other than giving a CV bump, putting armor SU's into an infantry division?

Where does that leave things like anti-tank battalions? Is it worth adding them into either inf or armor divisions - i.e. is there any intrinsic game mechanic that says if you attack, or defend against, armor then having AT units present is a positive?


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RE: Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 5/14/2018 6:13:36 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobbybat

...

Where does that leave things like anti-tank battalions? Is it worth adding them into either inf or armor divisions - i.e. is there any intrinsic game mechanic that says if you attack, or defend against, armor then having AT units present is a positive?




To this specifically yes they are good. I think (realistically) they are more of a defensive than offensive tool - but that might just be seeing what I want to see.

This is one of those things best tested by digging deep into the combat details screen. You'll find that the German 88s for eg really are bad news for Allied armour. Even lighter AT guns inflict a disruption even when they can't kill - after all nothing spoils the day of a tank crew as having an AT round glance off their armour, even if it does no immediate damage

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RE: Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 4/21/2019 5:53:36 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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Gents -

More wisdom at the feet of the Masters...;)

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 4/21/2019 7:15:44 PM >


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RE: Armor vs Armor or Armor vs Inf? - 4/22/2019 2:31:02 AM   
cfulbright

 

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quote:

I think (realistically) they are more of a defensive than offensive tool


I concur with Loki. You can see it easily in the Attack v. Defense values in the unit's detail screen.

Cary

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