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AI gave a beating in Burma and PM

 
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AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 4:13:26 PM   
Alpha77

 

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I had started an AI game with latest AI and scen27 (so called silver scen), even if the AI had trouble taking eg. Soerabaja / Manila for a while and flies the usual suicide missions it seems to be now better on the air defense and taking bases (it built a "Schwerpunkt" for Port Moresby for example and took the base.). Otherwise in China it is quite terrible, does not much in offense and I was able to take eg. Hankow and Canton.

Fun fact, the AI teleporting ships might also work for damaged ships. Here are 2 pointers for this: In this game the Yamato was caught by Allied CV air in the PM battle. Dozen of bomb and 2 torp hits. It then dissapeared, we had send more subs to Rabaul assmuming it makes its way there and then back to Japan for repairs. No one sighted the Yamato anymore. Bad luck. I opened up an AI turn and found Yamato at Kure repairing happily, ca. 1 week after she suffered the damage. Here another pointer in an older game (me as IJ), POW was also heavily damaged and was then laid up in Singapore for a while, there she would suffer more bomb hits. Not sunk for sure...I had also send subs to the straits were she should transfer if the AI wanted to safe her. But no sign found anymore, when Singapore was taken no POW there anymore. Was found in Aden finally by peaking at AI.

In Burma 2 a P40 and P39 unit were totally decimated by the defending AI air, also 10 bombers shot down. Then the AI send a curious strike to Chittagong:

Afternoon Air attack on Chittagong , at 55,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa KAI Oscar x 11
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Mohawk IV: 2 damaged
Mohawk IV: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim IV: 5 damaged
Mitchell PR.II: 2 damaged
Mitchell PR.II: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

That is a lot of damage and hits by 4 x 250kg bombs from 10k feet - level is hard, but it is said, AI does get only supply and recovery bonus.

Also the AI subs are not bad, the US suffered a CA SUNK, 1 heavily damaged and 2 more torp hits on CVs by AI subs..

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/26/2018 4:19:32 PM >
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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 4:44:39 PM   
Alpha77

 

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This combat report shows 9 P40 lost, see below screenshot that 10 more were lost:

Morning Air attack on Magwe , at 57,47

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa KAI Oscar x 36
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8

Allied aircraft
Lysander II x 12
Wapiti IIb (i) CAS x 12
P-40E Warhawk x 25

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Lysander II: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
Wapiti IIb (i) CAS: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 9 destroyed

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Lysander II bombing from 3000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
9 x Wapiti IIb (i) CAS bombing from 3000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 40 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
84th I.F.Chutai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(8 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Raid is overhead
24th Sentai with Ki-43-IIa KAI Oscar (21 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(29 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
21 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
11th Sentai with Ki-43-IIa KAI Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes

Curious is how many defending fighters were there, as Magwe showed not a single fighter by recon, only Mandalay showed ca. 40 which is 2 hexes away. Btw. the Oscar and Wapiti versions are a bit better in scen27, so they got also other names..




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Alpha77)
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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 5:17:23 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Then the AI send a curious strike to Chittagong:

Afternoon Air attack on Chittagong , at 55,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa KAI Oscar x 11
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 2

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Mohawk IV: 2 damaged
Mohawk IV: 1 destroyed on ground
Blenheim IV: 5 damaged
Mitchell PR.II: 2 damaged
Mitchell PR.II: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-45 KAIa Nick bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

That is a lot of damage and hits by 4 x 250kg bombs from 10k feet - level is hard, but it is said, AI does get only supply and recovery bonus.





What?????

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 5:40:51 PM   
btd64


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What size is the AF?....GP

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 5:53:17 PM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

What size is the AF?....GP


Enemy (IJ AI) fields: Magwe 3, Mandalay 2
Human (Allied) fields: Chittagong 8, Cox 6

Btw: Another question, if a baseforce or AA unit is in strat or rest mode, it´s AA guns should not be able to fire at planes that attack the base, right?

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/26/2018 5:56:56 PM >

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 6:04:03 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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They used frag/cluster bombs. Check it better in the airplane's devices/armament

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 6:15:26 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

What size is the AF?....GP


Enemy (IJ AI) fields: Magwe 3, Mandalay 2
Human (Allied) fields: Chittagong 8, Cox 6

Btw: Another question, if a baseforce or AA unit is in strat or rest mode, it´s AA guns should not be able to fire at planes that attack the base, right?

AA guns in rest or reserve mode will fire at aircraft (if they have supply and the aircraft are in range for altitude). I don't know about Strat Mode, but I suspect they do not fire.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/26/2018 8:11:22 PM   
MakeeLearn


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How to make AA Work
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4472440

ALL?
quote:


Andy Mac
If all the AA units are in move/rest or strat mode forget it they wont fire

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/27/2018 12:09:34 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

How to make AA Work
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4472440

ALL?
quote:


Andy Mac
If all the AA units are in move/rest or strat mode forget it they wont fire


That does not coincide with my experiences. Perhaps the difference is that I was setting the aircraft to Ground Attack, which means the AA units themselves could be part of the targeting. That might bump them out of rest mode or just trigger a bit of self-defence code as opposed to defending all the units/facilities in the hex.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/27/2018 10:35:10 AM   
tarkalak

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

This combat report shows 9 P40 lost, see below screenshot that 10 more were lost:

...


This one is typical. The combat report doesn't show all the planes destroyed. Usually it reports ~1/2 of the actual loses.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/27/2018 11:30:01 AM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I had started an AI game with latest AI and scen27 (so called silver scen),


Curious I was looking through the AI updates thread in the War room.

What is this scen27 ?

I do not see it listed.

I am just trying to piece together all the various 'mods' one can play as I have essentially limited my self to stock plus so far.

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 4/27/2018 11:31:04 AM >


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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/27/2018 1:16:53 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I had started an AI game with latest AI and scen27 (so called silver scen),


Curious I was looking through the AI updates thread in the War room.

What is this scen27 ?

I do not see it listed.

I am just trying to piece together all the various 'mods' one can play as I have essentially limited my self to stock plus so far.

I think the three DBB mods are Scenarios 26 to 29.

http://www.alternatewars.com/Mods/WITP_AE/Scen/Scenarios.htm



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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 4/28/2018 10:04:15 AM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

I had started an AI game with latest AI and scen27 (so called silver scen),


Curious I was looking through the AI updates thread in the War room.

What is this scen27 ?

I do not see it listed.

I am just trying to piece together all the various 'mods' one can play as I have essentially limited my self to stock plus so far.


Sorry for not giving more info, this scen 27 is a "personel" one - which seems to work ok. I did not know that DBB also uses these slots. One can easily rename the scen numbers. I had put this scen online here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4272943
... in case someone want to try it out or use some ideas from it. The AI version I just copied from the "latest AI" download thread for scen2 and included it to this scen27(as it is based on the scen2).


I played some more turn in this one and tried an all out offense in Burma, put basically almost every bomber (even if bad one like Lysander, Blenheim - as it is July 42 and nothing better is there LOL) and fighter which has the range to reach either Magwe and/or Mandalay. But there was only one bigger attack, which sweeps first which got ok results (Hurricans mostly). Bombers were set to arrive in the 2nd phase, worked ok. But not so much hits. Ofc this offense would only make sense if it is continuing over severall days. To damage fields enough and wear out the denfending IJA fighters. This did not work.... either was the weather too bad or drop tanks were suddenly cancelled. Ok, at Cox Bazar there is only a jungle road (or ships) to supply it, however Chittagong is a major base now and has also a railroad. Still not enough supplies getting there, even if the "need" for supply at the base screen was put to "max". So this hypothetical way to early "all out" operation did not materialize I just checked the lastest turn and Cox still shows the "!" for lack of supply (which could be understood for lack of rail), Chittagong showed it too before - then it dissapeared. But still supplies there are not enough and no drop tanks. Supply is bunched up at Madras it seems, I had read in the forum before there might be problem. Rails should not be affected by Monsun or are they ?

Otherwise the AI now send the "usual" carrier raid in direction Rockhampton / Brisbane. They managed to suprprise a DD fleet in transit and sunk 2 of them damaged 3 others. However mid of July 42 is too late for such a raid to cause serious damage to the OZ east coast. There are now a lot of fighters and AA. Could be precarious otherwise as the US CVs are mostly laid up at Brisbane and Sidney for updates and fixing torpedo damage to Enterprise. But all the fighters from the CVs can now help defend these bases. In March or April 42 such a raid might cause serious concern, like it was the case in my 1st game as Allies vs. the AI.

Well, I also have a PBM to play which is more important.
And no time for both, so guess this one will get a rest - untill more free time.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/28/2018 10:29:56 AM >

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/8/2018 9:17:46 AM   
Alpha77

 

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Re. the above described supply flow problem to Chittagong, I can not wage war without supplies. Will it help to perhaps increase demand at Calcutta and then it will flow to Chittagong and perhaps even to Cox´Basar over the jungle road. Yes the rail end in CHitta... at least this city should get supplies? As said above I get that moonson heavy rains and storms will impact greatly the situation but NOT a rail line? And supply bunches in Madras. I think in my PBM game supplies flows from eg. Calcutta to Chitta and back. I also wonder if oil and / or fuel might flow from Rangoon to eg. Saigon ? Because it does not seem to do this (in this case no rail line but a bit should flow over the roads??)..

Also there seemed to be a change in some patch or beta to prevent this flow, to hinder the so called "magic highway" I believe. This does not work anymore, not even fuel or oil from Singers to Saigon or Bangkog. I had this work in an earlier game even to Hongkong.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/8/2018 2:31:20 PM   
Yaab


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The whole area between Rangpur (crucial rail junction to India proper) and Chittagong is a supply wasteland. Some bases produce rezources and that is it. There is a static command HQ in Calcutta which will hog supplies in Calcutta, and Calcutta is linked to Chittagong only by one minor railroad.

I guess your supplies ping-pong inside India proper and any supply surplus stockpiles in Bombay on its own as per this thread
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2780376&mpage=1&key=�

You can do the following
-set stockpile supplies in Chittagong
-sail convoys from Calcutta to Chittagong and dump supplies in Chittagong
-units will still draw supplies from Chittagong, though supply will not flow to other bases.

Also you could sail supplies directly to Cox's Bazar.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/9/2018 9:30:33 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Thanks yup ofc I can ship supplies, seems the only way. IN fact I did that already, the AI often detects the ships. Funnily enough it then sends IJA bombers (often WITH escort so this is improved) at eg. 10k or so. They rarely hit anything ofc. Now I at Cox I have 2 fighter (and not the best P39 and Hurries) which already got lots of easy kills when the AI sends their "not so usefull against ships planes"...

I admit I want to play this AI game as easy and fast as possible compared to the PBM, so sending many fleets around getting CAP to protect them etc. seems a time waster, when there are a million supplies in India not used at all which could be railed at least to Chitta. But ok, this AI game is not very important. So I live with it. At Cox also the unload time is pretty long.

In my case it dumbs at Madras not Bombay and I increased the need at Chitta already to no avail, like described. NO drop tanks at base (airfield 8) so no missions can flown at all (no fighter there has a range without external tanks to Magwe or Mandalay etc.) And the few P38 are in the pacific...(July42). But luckily the bombers did also not fly without escort Blenheims even Oscars can massacre

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/9/2018 9:36:26 PM >

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/9/2018 9:49:13 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

The whole area between Rangpur (crucial rail junction to India proper) and Chittagong is a supply wasteland. Some bases produce rezources and that is it. There is a static command HQ in Calcutta which will hog supplies in Calcutta, and Calcutta is linked to Chittagong only by one minor railroad.

I guess your supplies ping-pong inside India proper and any supply surplus stockpiles in Bombay on its own as per this thread
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2780376&mpage=1&key=?

You can do the following
-set stockpile supplies in Chittagong
-sail convoys from Calcutta to Chittagong and dump supplies in Chittagong
-units will still draw supplies from Chittagong, though supply will not flow to other bases.

Also you could sail supplies directly to Cox's Bazar.


I got supply to flow to Chittagong (without setting "stockpile" there) simply by building up the bases along the minor rail line from Calcutta to Chittagong. Bigger bases have better throughput for any kind of transportation. It does require deployment of units with engineers to about six bases, but it is worth it if you are past the stage where the Japanese can really take on India.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/9/2018 10:05:47 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Need to check if I had built up the minor bases, but guess did not bother. And the AI has zero interest in India, not even in Burma as recon showed not much in terms of troops. This is why I decided to roll an all out offensive at July42 already (which was stalled to zero by lack of supply - troops still on the march vs. AI perhaps air not even needed? ) Bunch of Indian/Brits reached the plains marching on Magwe, should normally be bombed without mercy in this terrain...I can not give them much air cap for as for described missing drop tanks

And the AI´s interest in certain parts of China is also pretty low as they just lost Hongkong to the Chinese Well therefore it took Port Moresby. It is fun vs. the AI and you can play when you want, leave it alone 2 weeks, continue, play 5 turns a row, pause a month etc.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/9/2018 10:09:22 PM >

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/9/2018 10:18:58 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Need to check if I had built up the minor bases, but guess did not bother. And the AI has zero interest in India, not even in Burma as recon showed not much in terms of troops. This is why I decided to roll an all out offensive at July42 already (which was stalled to zero by lack of supply - troops still on the march vs. AI perhaps air not even needed? ) Bunch of Indian/Brits reached the plains marching on Magwe, should normally be bombed without mercy in this terrain...I can not give them much air cap for as for described missing drop tanks

And the AI´s interest in certain parts of China is also pretty low as they just lost Hongkong to the Chinese Well therefore it took Port Moresby. It is fun vs. the AI and you can play when you want, leave it alone 2 weeks, continue, play 5 turns a row, pause a month etc.

If the AI is ignoring Burma, just take Ramree Island and build up the port there. Landing supply at that base will move through bush hexes to the roads and then flow fairly well. The monsoon season will slow everything down though.

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/9/2018 10:26:33 PM   
Alpha77

 

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I have Ramree already, small Indian unit took from land, no defender there...but too time consuming building it up. In a PBM this would be a no brainer to do yes correct. But lets see, how this goes, I will have time at the weekend, if all troops are cut off and bombed, as the AI set a cunning trap for them..this might be funny I have the impression if you cross a certain line the AI will "wake up" and send forces in masses (as it was the case in central China, suddenly 5 divisons on forced march threw back most my brave Chinese

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/9/2018 10:29:41 PM >

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RE: AI gave a beating in Burma and PM - 5/12/2018 6:02:02 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

but it is worth it if you are past the stage where the Japanese can really take on India.


Correct. Do this too early in a PBEM and you could end up building the bases needed for further Japanese expansion.

quote:

just take Ramree Island and build up the port there.


Again, good luck in a PBEM. If your Japanese opponent is worth his/her salt you'll get pasted from Prome.

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