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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy

 
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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 1:41:35 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Okie dokie....I got the ports and supply point just SE of Rome at Anzio. Now to
try to get a lot of troops up there to invest the city.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 2:12:40 PM   
hingram


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"not activating"

What does that mean?

I discovered that the German air force is on rest during the first turn which is Allies. That's why they get knocked out. That seems rather unfair to me.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 2:53:01 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

I discovered that the German air force is on rest during the first turn which is Allies. That's why they get knocked out. That seems rather unfair to me.

If they are given missions then they fly and get knocked out, but not if they are on Rest. If they are on Rest and their airfield is attacked, they will defend.

The 26.Panzer Div is in Garrison. There must be a reason but it escapes me right now.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 6:50:06 PM   
MikeJ19


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Larry,

You are flying. Even after reading your AARs, I must admit I do not know that much about the Italian campaign, but it seems to me that you are making great progress.

When you capture ports, does that modify the supply rates/sources? It would make sense if there was an increase after a couple of weeks.

I had problems with units in my Normandy campaign being stuck in garrison mode for almost the whole battle. I understand Brian's concern.

All the best,

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 7:48:51 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

You are flying. Even after reading your AARs, I must admit I do not know that much about the Italian campaign, but it seems to me that you are making great progress.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm a student of military history especially the east front and I know next to nothing about the Italian campaign and I'm just playing by the seat of my pants here. I went back to the basics and just apply logic to the current situation and do what needs to be done in the order it needs doing. First comes the recon of all the ports to find a weak spot, an open port, that would be best, no losses getting ashore. Or use the method of landing a paratrooper on the port to instantly own it, providing there's no enemy unit in the hex when you land. It's iffy. Do a recon by air unit first to make sure it's empty. To do that select one of your combat air units with a range big enough to reach the area you want to test and just hover the mouse cursor over the candidate hex and if the cursor turns into a "target reticle" then there's at least one enemy unit in that hex but if it doesn't change to a target then it's open for occupancy.

Another example would be the use of paratroops to leapfrog to important locations it would be great to own like bridges ( to drop them in the river perhaps ), road intersections, rail hubs, airfields, whatever is important to your opponent. After they have done their mission for that location, it's best to move them somewhere important to your opponent and at the same time not close to the original DZ because there may be enemy units enroute and you don't want to be there when they arrive.

Another thing that's helpful is being able to drive your ship unit into empty ports to convert them to friendly control. I did that at Anzio and it helped a great deal. I flew in a paratrooper unit to the empty hex and his zone of control converted the other port hexes to friendly control and all of a sudden I'm fat on ports. It made floating a division into that AO very easy. The unit that captured the supply point at Anzio had sailed from Reggio and had but a single MP left after he arrived but I needed that supply point very badly so toward the end of my turn after all the other battles were conducted and there was nothing else to do for the turn I attacked with that 1 MP unit and he advanced into the hex just fine, replacing the Axis security force unit, but burning all my rounds and the turn ended. Just like I thought it might.

I'm not through with Anzio yet. Brian has railed a lot of troops down that way and I expect a counterattack or two, unless he's been building his Gustav Line already. That might be a good idea for him to start that bad boy because I'll be there soon. I have earmarked another division, the 8th Indian Division to sail to Anzio at the earliest opportunity, probably some of them in the next turn, and the rest of them the turn after that. Also, the US 1st Armor Division is rolling at full speed north on the coastal road from Naples and they will be at Anzio within a turn or two. I'd like to connect the hexes from Taranto to Reggio to Naples to Rome and points north just to provide an LOC for supply flow and then position the RR engineers at Rome and start repairing going north.

I'd like to conclude mop up in the south within 10 turns or so in order to use their services around Rome. From Rome I'd like to build a line clear across the width of the peninsula to seal off the south from the rest of Italy so that the supply for the Axis units south of Rome, the remnants, will be minimal. And then send two or three low-budget divisions to clear up all that terrain in the south to eliminate the possibility of surprises. I don't like surprises. I'll send the Free French and the Brazilians and the group from Morracco, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
When you capture ports, does that modify the supply rates/sources? It would make sense if there was an increase after a couple of weeks.

There's no supply associated with the port itself. I captured one of the little ports on the east side of the peninsula down south, one of the unnamed ports, and there was no supply at all there when I quickly checked to see how long I could loiter there. Not long it turned out. There's tricks that the scenario designer can use to adjust the amount of supply coming from a supply source, or spawn a new supply source somewhere. I venture to predict that few scenario designers will monkey with the values of their supply points, but I can see how the port should increase in capacity with the passage of time to simulate the increase in efficiency as procedures are learned and shortcuts are found and the new guys learn their jobs, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
I had problems with units in my Normandy campaign being stuck in garrison mode for almost the whole battle. I understand Brian's concern.

All the best,

I think I understand what you mean. Years ago there was a version of FITE that had the Soviet units as far east as Orsha in garrison mode and they could only "wake up" if they were attacked and that kind of hampered the human Soviet player greatly. There was nothing for the Soviet player to do the first two turns. There were voices that begged for a change and eventually we got a FITE2, thank you very much by the way. FITE2 is one of the bigger scenarios and I'm constantly getting lost on the map but it's a fabulous game. I eventually got irritated about having to constantly orient myself before moving units and dropped back to D21.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/10/2018 7:55:53 PM >


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 10:31:06 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's what it looks like around the Rome area and I see only a single defender in
the entire city so I'm thinking I ought to send a recon unit up there to look around
and see what else is there and I see they didn't repair the bridge my partisans dropped.
I've got the 8th Indian Division sailing this way as we speak and they should arrive this
turn. I think I'll use them for security for the Rome area looking south. I can see
that I'm going to need another division yet to head south to help join the friendly
hexes together. And then move the RR engineers up here.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/10/2018 10:32:12 PM >


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 10:41:46 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's what I'm up against for this turn. I've got trails I need to convert and
I need to join the two supplied sections together and down south I need to stage
another division on a port hex to get them ready to sail to Anzio.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 10:51:10 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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This is the supply situation from Taranto and down the east side of the peninsula.
I've gotten almost to a useable level down in the areas where I really need it so
there's more rail to repair yet in this line but when it's adequate, at least about
5 or so, then I'll move the RR engineers to Rome.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/10/2018 11:30:59 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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October 26, 1943
This is a spot near Naples where I'm driving units past the Gustav Line and there's
nobody there yet. I'm guessing that I'm not far from them however. I've hear train
noises and I've seen German units moving south and I really expected to see some
here.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/10/2018 11:32:30 PM >


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 12:02:05 AM   
MikeJ19


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Larry,

The description of your plan is awesome. I'm surprised that the ports do not give you some supply boost, maybe not right away, but after time to open them up.

Your idea to use the low budget divisions to mop up makes great sense.

I love your aggressive approach. I'm not sure what Brian is doing, it would be very interesting to hear/see his view of the battle.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 11:01:48 AM   
DanNeely

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's what I'm up against for this turn. I've got trails I need to convert and
I need to join the two supplied sections together and down south I need to stage
another division on a port hex to get them ready to sail to Anzio.





Supply can be traced through empty hexes not in hostile ZOC regardless of who owns them.

This was added in TOAW3 along with the mode that didn't show ownership of hexes not next to your own units. The intent was to fix supply cutting abuse cases in north african scenarios with low unit densities and high movement levels. IT works anywhere though, which I've never been entirely sure was a good thing for scenarios in more populated areas.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 2:08:08 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I shipped in another division worth of units to the Anzio area and the fighting
has started for Rome and it's heating up. Brian has railed some troops to the area
and I'm expecting to see them on the front lines any turn now. There are no more
ports to use to go around the Germans unless I drive out toward the middle of the
nation and I expect supply is poor out there. I need to ship the RR engineers up
here to get them busy repairing northward and maybe a little bit to the east.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 2:28:01 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

Hey there Mike man...Thanks for posting your thoughts....I like the way you think. And you seem to say things that I need to hear from time to time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
The description of your plan is awesome. I'm surprised that the ports do not give you some supply boost, maybe not right away, but after time to open them up.

I'm hoping to be able to mop up the remnants in the south a little group at a time rather than a full-fledged front line toe-to-toe WWI-style engagement. And the supply levels are exceptionally low, essentially zero, and I'm wondering if I ought instead, just seal off the south, garrison the important areas, and forget about the south. I'm wondering what kind of trouble I can get into doing that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Your idea to use the low budget divisions to mop up makes great sense.

The Brazilian Division has a proficiency in the high 40's and attacking with them has to be done carefully...against an enemy unit already 90% dead, say. All they are good for is recon and light mop up duties. And some of the Free French units are outfitted expecially for mountain operations and would be especially helpful in the middle of the map where the rough terrain resides.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
I love your aggressive approach. I'm not sure what Brian is doing, it would be very interesting to hear/see his view of the battle.

I'm doing the aggressive because I'm afraid of what might happen if I allow Brian to dictate where I should go next. I'd rather he chase me as I move over the map. I'm thinking that we're probably fairly evenly matched in the number of units and that my spreading all over the map is setting me up to get outflanked unless I stay in terrain that can be anchored at the sides by a terrain feature. I don't remember the Axis side as having many mountain units so I'm guessing my long-term roadblocks can loiter longer without a bigger level of threat.

All the airfields around Rome are around Rome and there's none close to Anzio where all the ports are. You'd think there would be at least one airfield to protect the ports. Speaking of ports, early in the turn there was an Axis aircraft unit parked near the coast to the NW of Rome so I drove the UK CA's up there, did two separate airfield bombardments and killed the entire unit. It turns out they were JU-88 A4's, about 20 of them. I'm watching for the removal of the exclusion zone for the port at Toulon, France. I'd like to get started over there as soon as I can. It's a shorter trip to Brenner's Pass from there, rather than from Rome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanNeely
Supply can be traced through empty hexes not in hostile ZOC regardless of who owns them.

This was added in TOAW3 along with the mode that didn't show ownership of hexes not next to your own units. The intent was to fix supply cutting abuse cases in north african scenarios with low unit densities and high movement levels. It works anywhere though, which I've never been entirely sure was a good thing for scenarios in more populated areas.

Hey there Dan the man. Thanks for posting that info. I suspected that was the case. You've been doing this since TOAW3? I'm impressed. Keep those good ideas coming. We might have to do a test to see how it effects the NA scenarios now that TOAW4 is out. Warspite1 hasn't said much about supply problems in his AAR about the CfNA game he is in with devoncop I'm guessing. I could be wrong.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/11/2018 2:31:48 PM >


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 3:00:40 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's what it looks like when I received some moves from Brian just now. I've
just about finished mop up around Taranto on the way to Reggio and the fighting
is heating up around Rome. I'm going to have to move a lot more people that way
so I can form a front line and get organized up there. The exclusion zone is
still in place around Toulon, France. I still don't have any airfields near Rome
and that's a handicap that I'll have to correct soonest. I've got ships up north
monitoring the rail traffic moving south and it's massive, at least a division
worth of troops moving toward Rome. I'm going to need a lot more people there soon.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/11/2018 3:01:04 PM >


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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 3:34:35 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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This is what's going on around Rome right now. I've formed a sort of front line
and I'm actively looking for a way around them but I'm running into the need for
a lot more troops. I want to do a right hook around the Germans and I'm thinking
more units are needed for that. I'm in a hurry to have the city because if I'm
going to get to Brenner's Pass from Rome I'm going to have to get started pretty
soon now. There's 158 turns remaining.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 3:50:22 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I flew some Hurricanes to Corsica just to see how they fit and fit they did. Now
to base some bombers there to do INT missions. I'm wondering if I should start
dropping bridges or not. More and more German troops are showing up north of Rome
and this is threatening to expand into a full-fledged war. I still need more people
near Rome to fill out the front lines. The eastern flank is open and could prove to
be a problem.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/11/2018 6:26:05 PM   
MikeJ19


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Larry,

If this is a key part of your battle, and it seems to be, drop the bridges to slow down Brian's response. You have done a great job keeping him off balance so far. You have units to repair the bridges later for when you need them. Rome is a very important objective, so seizing it now - and the airfields would be great.

It will also make him worry that you can exploit eastwards and cut off his remaining troops in the South.

I like your idea of the low budget units mopping up his cutoff units - it frees up your other units for more important battles.

Well done on taking out those planes (Ju-88s). I think that they could have caused you issues...

Have a good day,

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 4:05:12 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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This is the face of war around the Rome area currently. This is as of the beginning
of the second combat round and I've already scheduled some attacks. So far my attacks
have not lead to any progress and it's just getting people killed. Maybe I should wait
until I have more people in this AO before I get serious about attacking. It's too late
now, the fighting is already enjoined. I've sailed the New Zealand Division to the Rome
area and I'm thinking of sending them to the east flank to shore them up over there. More
German units are starting to show up on the east flank so I'd best get some more people
up here to send that direction or I'll get outflanked and I'll have to pull back to Anzio.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 4:24:01 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Now that the fighting for Rome is underway I'm trying to decide what to do next and
I'm coming up with the east coast and I confess that I need to do a map study of the
conditions on the east coast north of a Rome latitude. There may not be sufficient
supply to operate over there. In that case I'll concentrate on the middle.

I've got Free French units starting to go over the nooks and crannys to clear out
all the German hexes possible to prevent the occurance of surprises. I've got one
more German remnant to dispose of and that shouldn't be hard, it's just a tired AA
unit after all. I've got a unit adjacent to it that doesn't have enough supply to
shoot.

I'm debating whether or not to continue repairing rails leading away from Taranto in
either direction. There may be some profit in the east coast rails to feed the units
further north along the east coast. The rail from Taranto to Reggio may come in
handy some day. Just not right now. Right now I'm concentrating on the rail leading
from Anzio north toward Rome. I've already shipped all the RR engineers up there so
all that's left for the rest of the nation are the regular engineers that can repair
rail sometimes and not very often.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 12:02:21 PM   
MikeJ19


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Larry,

Do you have any paratroopers? Capturing the bridge at Tivoli (East of Rome) would really help you and cause Brian to really think about his defence plans in Rome. You can not really bypass Rome, but you can cut into his supply lines and make it harder for him to hold.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 12:55:39 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

Hey there Mike my friend. Good to hear from you again. Thanks for posting. I like
your thoughts, your ideas. I have a vague memory of you saying you were going to
play a StBP game against the PO and I'm wondering how that's going. I may be
thinking of somebody else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Do you have any paratroopers? Capturing the bridge at Tivoli (East of Rome) would really help you and cause Brian to really think about his defence plans in Rome. You can not really bypass Rome, but you can cut into his supply lines and make it harder for him to hold.

The British 1st Airborne Division was withdrawn to the UK but I still have a regiment of Rangers and the entire 82nd Airborne Division but I don't have any air cap., which means all the transports were withdrawn for another theater I suppose. I keep watching for some air cap. each turn because, like you said, something like your plan must be done to break the logjam I think. Oh, I just got an email that said that Brian's moves are ready for me to process. I'll do that now.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 1:02:58 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the attacks Brian did in his turn. I didn't see a lot of movement during his
turn so I'm wondering if I'm seeing all the units he has or close to it. I still
need more troops near Rome. I'm wondering if the supply situation is any better.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/12/2018 1:24:37 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the supply level near Rome and it's okay except for in the east of this
image. The German resistance is terrific and there's no easy way around them
most probably. I'll keep looking for a weak spot.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 3:58:00 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I got some moves from Brian and I've started working on them just now and I thought
I'd check the expected reinforcements to see what is getting withdrawn soon and I
don't see anything remarkable. Some of the places are in Rome. A lot of them are
on Sardinia so I guess I need to clear that island sometime.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 4:13:01 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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I got some moves from Brian just now and this is what it looks like before I have
moved anybody. The fighting near Rome is still brutal and I've captured Foggia
but the supply level is too low to operate there.

My plan is to grab Rome and try to fight my way north while sending some troops to the
east to cut off the south from the rest of Italy and then march north clearing the map
as I go. On the other hand I could also just head north and ignore the midde for now.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 4:18:44 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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Here's the supply situation near Rome. I'm going to try to repair the rail heading
to the east to better supply those folks on the east side of the front. Brian has
formed a really strong front and it's tough getting through it. I'm still looking
for a way around the crowd.




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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 4:53:41 PM   
MikeJ19


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Larry,

I like how you are handling Rome. Well done.

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RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 5:00:57 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 38319
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
Here's what Rome looks like just before I ended my turn. I've gotten some units
round to the northeast of Rome and I plan to surround the city and reduce the
infestation of Germans and then press north and east.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 148
RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 5:13:01 PM   
700851McCall

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 1/7/2018
From: Staffordshire, England.
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Looks like Rome is going to end up in ruins. I think one of the reasons the Germans didn't defend it historically was because it would have been too easy to surround it. Which is what the real Allies would have had to do as I doubt they would have got authorisation to smash the place to pieces with bombs and artillery. No such annoying restrictions for the TOAW Generals though!

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Post #: 149
RE: Adventures with Brian In Italy - 5/13/2018 5:36:41 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

Posts: 38319
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
I like how you are handling Rome. Well done.

Thanks for your kind words. The rivers running through Rome are making it a good place to defend and the main action hinges around the river crossings. I can't just bypass the city as it has the road and rail intersections that I need for good supply flow. I wish Brian had decided not to defend the city.

I live by myself in a house trailer in a huge trailer park out in the desert just southeast of Tucson and I don't own a car so I don't go anywhere. My daughter shops for me for food, etc. and I never need to leave the house except to check the mail and the main way I relate to my society is watching You Tube videos and posting in the Matrix Games forums. So I really appreciate all the postings from all my fellow wargamers for all your advice and ideas and I would encourage you guys to keep it up. It's not the only relationships I have but it is important to me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 700851McCall
Looks like Rome is going to end up in ruins. I think one of the reasons the Germans didn't defend it historically was because it would have been too easy to surround it. Which is what the real Allies would have had to do as I doubt they would have got authorisation to smash the place to pieces with bombs and artillery. No such annoying restrictions for the TOAW Generals though!

I'm letting my aircraft and artillery do most of the work for me and I can imagine that those tools would crater a lot of the Rome urban hexes and I'm hoping I won't have to fight for the city very hard. I'd rather not destroy all the historical art pieces just to move the Germans out.

There's a lot of territory yet to convert and fight for and I'd rather move north into areas where the Germans haven't entered yet, flowing like water into the areas of least resistance. Because I'm going to have to clear it all out anyway. I need to present my troops in all the hot spots and try to dominate the Germans where I find them by concentrating the troops for the fight and then afterwards to spread them out again. I'll have to advance in a pseudosynchronized manner to have the various groups support each other.

I don't think the broad front approach is going to work for this situation and I'm going to try the finger of God method whereby the units will ignore their flanks and just advance northward. I think that might work along the coastal road where I can support with the ships and anchor the west flank on the beach and send out road guards to explore laterally as the follow on forces continue to move north.

I don't have any air cap so I can't use the paratroopers to leapfrog anymore and the rest of the game will be fought on the ground I suppose. I haven't gotten around to dropping bridges yet and I'm trying to decide if I really need to. I think it might help the war effort to drop some key bridges.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/13/2018 5:45:43 PM >


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"Am I in hell? I thought there would be more country western music."
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