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Thoughts on the game - 4/2/2018 12:58:19 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4090
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
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I think this game has a lot going for it. Lots of features that are new to me and the wego system feels good for the chaos of the desert war. The combat and shock system, on first impression, look to do a good job.

There are things that could be improved, here is my suggestions list:
1. The AI needs some work to make solo play more interesting.
2. A list of units destroyed (by turn and side), don't always want to have to view all the battles to try and spot where something has been eliminated.
3. A list of battles and results for the turn, instead of having to chase around the map for them
4. Selecting 'Combat+' and 'Move+' is over complicated with too many buttons to click. How about something like, if you want units to use 'Combat+' then holding down the SHIFT key when the combat is selected. Similar for 'Move+', just hold down the SHIFT key as the unit is moved. (I do realise that a change like this would have ramifications)
5. Perhaps it is just the scenarios I have played but it does seem that a unit can be ZOC locked too easily. You just need to get a couple of units in place to pin the opponent and can then work to isolate and eliminate them at leisure. Perhaps a minimum of one hex movement for any unit. Also am not sure whether even very weak units still exert the same ZOC on movement.
6. Supply ranges. The facility to see the supply range of an HQ when you hover the mouse over the unit.
7. A date and time on the save files. If a scenario is run more than once it is hard to tell which auto-save is which.


< Message edited by tyronec -- 4/2/2018 1:27:24 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/3/2018 11:15:18 AM   
Saint Ruth


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Hi, great ideas there. They'll go on the list!
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
5. Perhaps it is just the scenarios I have played but it does seem that a unit can be ZOC locked too easily. You just need to get a couple of units in place to pin the opponent and can then work to isolate and eliminate them at leisure. Perhaps a minimum of one hex movement for any unit. Also am not sure whether even very weak units still exert the same ZOC on movement.

Ah, but ZOC movement costs apply when you ENTER a hex, not leave it (so for example, British units can escape from the ZOC of larger Italian stacks in the 1940 scenarios). This is the opposite of most games, and was done so that units could disengage easily (as in reality in the desert) and not get "stuck" adjacent to larger stacks.
quote:

6. Supply ranges. The facility to see the supply range of an HQ when you hover the mouse over the unit.

I was thinking about this. Perhaps when the HQ lines are on (hokey-H I think), then when the cursor is moved over a HQ, it will also show that HQ's range?
quote:

7. A date and time on the save files. If a scenario is run more than once it is hard to tell which auto-save is which.

I understand, but I'd be wary of never overwriting old autosave files as otherwise the number of autosaves could grow forever and no one wants hundreds of autosave files on their C drive (and I'd also prefer not to automatically delete your old autosave files too).

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 2
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/3/2018 8:03:32 PM   
SlickWilhelm


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From: Rochester, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

6. Supply ranges. The facility to see the supply range of an HQ when you hover the mouse over the unit.


I believe this already exists in the game. If you use hotkey "r" and then mouse over the HQ, you will see its supply range as an area of green colored hexes.


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Beta Tester - Desert War 1940-42

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 3
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/4/2018 9:34:49 AM   
Saint Ruth


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I think (?) he means just moving the cursor (without pressing the R key) would show the range, so if 3 HQs were beside each other, then moving the cursor from one to the other would show the range of 1 HQ and then the other.
So do you think it'd be a good idea (if the HQ lines were on) to automatically show the HQ range when you move the cursor over the HQs?
Thanks,

(in reply to SlickWilhelm)
Post #: 4
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/4/2018 4:22:08 PM   
tyronec


Posts: 4090
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
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quote:

I believe this already exists in the game. If you use hotkey "r" and then mouse over the HQ, you will see its supply range as an area of green colored hexes.

Thanks, spotted it now - just what I meant.


quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
5. Perhaps it is just the scenarios I have played but it does seem that a unit can be ZOC locked too easily. You just need to get a couple of units in place to pin the opponent and can then work to isolate and eliminate them at leisure. Perhaps a minimum of one hex movement for any unit. Also am not sure whether even very weak units still exert the same ZOC on movement.

Ah, but ZOC movement costs apply when you ENTER a hex, not leave it (so for example, British units can escape from the ZOC of larger Italian stacks in the 1940 scenarios). This is the opposite of most games, and was done so that units could disengage easily (as in reality in the desert) and not get "stuck" adjacent to larger stacks.

The point I was trying to make was that if you can get a unit pinned with two units on opposite sides then it cannot move out because it cannot move from one ZOC to another ZOC of the same unit. In the pic both the Allied recon units are as good as dead. Makes conducting a fighting retreat difficult.





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< Message edited by tyronec -- 4/4/2018 4:24:09 PM >

(in reply to Saint Ruth)
Post #: 5
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/5/2018 2:08:35 AM   
Rosseau

 

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I can't think of any operational game I've played lately where those two units would not be dead. I'm sure there are exceptions, and appreciate you giving us a look at your experiences. Thanks!

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Post #: 6
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/5/2018 10:38:03 AM   
Saint Ruth


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I think they'll have to fight their way out!

(in reply to Rosseau)
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RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/5/2018 4:05:37 PM   
russkly

 

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quote:

2. A list of units destroyed (by turn and side), don't always want to have to view all the battles to try and spot where something has been eliminated.
3. A list of battles and results for the turn, instead of having to chase around the map for them


+1
Sometimes difficult in situations where multiple battles occur in close proximity to one another to see exactly which is the most recent even when reviewing the film frame by frame.


quote:

6. Supply ranges. The facility to see the supply range of an HQ when you hover the mouse over the unit.

With 'H' selected to show LOCs, sometimes they indicate units off the current map view, and, if you use map edge mouse scrolling, as I do, the HQ unit in question is no longer selected, and the LOC line disappears.
Would be useful to to be able to select an HQ, show its LOC lines and then scroll around the map to view all its subordinate units.

Other points and questions:

1.0 With "Remove armies from map" selected, if you right click an occupied hex, you get the detailed unit dialogue and not the terrain modifiers dialogue. Would be useful with armies removed to right click on an occupied hex and see the terrain effects popup, not the unit popup.

2.0 Would be useful to see victory locations even when "Display victory data" is not selected, because it's not possible to see the units in a given stack when the right-hand panel is displaying the victory info. When moving units to defend or attack victory hexes, I find myself having to switch between views and try to remember where the victory hexes are!

3.0 When reviewing the turn film, the camera jumps to battles, which is useful; could it also do this for movement, because now I have to zoom right out on large battlefields to try to catch the various unit movements?

4.0 In the unit popups in the right-hand panel there is a symbol in the top left corner next to the "Shock" and "Dug in" symbols, which looks like 2 barrels with a yellow square underneath. Not all units have this symbol. I'm guessing it's something to do with supply, but I can't find it in the manual.

Just some initial observations after playing the tutorial a couple of times, reading the manual, and playing the first 20-odd turns of "Operazione E".

Very enjoyable game thus far.

(in reply to Saint Ruth)
Post #: 8
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/5/2018 5:19:21 PM   
Saint Ruth


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Joined: 12/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: russkly
With 'H' selected to show LOCs, sometimes they indicate units off the current map view, and, if you use map edge mouse scrolling, as I do, the HQ unit in question is no longer selected, and the LOC line disappears.
Would be useful to to be able to select an HQ, show its LOC lines and then scroll around the map to view all its subordinate units.

Ah, I see. I'll have a look. Maybe SHIFT-R when over a HQ will keep the hexes coloured in or something...will have a think.

[qupte]Other points and questions:

1.0 With "Remove armies from map" selected, if you right click an occupied hex, you get the detailed unit dialogue and not the terrain modifiers dialogue. Would be useful with armies removed to right click on an occupied hex and see the terrain effects popup, not the unit popup.
Already done for the next patch.

[quote[2.0 Would be useful to see victory locations even when "Display victory data" is not selected, because it's not possible to see the units in a given stack when the right-hand panel is displaying the victory info. When moving units to defend or attack victory hexes, I find myself having to switch between views and try to remember where the victory hexes are!
Maybe a new Hotkey...

quote:

3.0 When reviewing the turn film, the camera jumps to battles, which is useful; could it also do this for movement, because now I have to zoom right out on large battlefields to try to catch the various unit movements?

Mmm...but with a lot of movement, the map might be jumping all over the place...?

quote:

4.0 In the unit popups in the right-hand panel there is a symbol in the top left corner next to the "Shock" and "Dug in" symbols, which looks like 2 barrels with a yellow square underneath. Not all units have this symbol. I'm guessing it's something to do with supply, but I can't find it in the manual.

It's the Lines Of Communication. It should have a ToolTip? I'm in work, so can't check.

quote:

Just some initial observations after playing the tutorial a couple of times, reading the manual, and playing the first 20-odd turns of "Operazione E".

Very enjoyable game thus far.

Thanks!

(in reply to russkly)
Post #: 9
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/5/2018 5:41:18 PM   
budd


Posts: 2880
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
Status: offline

quote:

2. A list of units destroyed (by turn and side), don't always want to have to view all the battles to try and spot where something has been eliminated.
3. A list of battles and results for the turn, instead of having to chase around the map for them


+1




_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to russkly)
Post #: 10
RE: Thoughts on the game - 4/9/2018 4:46:31 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2376
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
There are things that could be improved, here is my suggestions list:
1. The AI needs some work to make solo play more interesting.

Yep. Some folks thought the AI was too hard; we're now working beyond that idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
2. A list of units destroyed (by turn and side), don't always want to have to view all the battles to try and spot where something has been eliminated.

Can't argue with that. Eventually, I would like to see a roll-up of all of this info for the entire scenario.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
3. A list of battles and results for the turn, instead of having to chase around the map for them

Good idea. I can see it in my head--click each battle on the list to map-center as well; need to think about how to implement it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
4. Selecting 'Combat+' and 'Move+' is over complicated with too many buttons to click. How about something like, if you want units to use 'Combat+' then holding down the SHIFT key when the combat is selected. Similar for 'Move+', just hold down the SHIFT key as the unit is moved. (I do realize that a change like this would have ramifications)

Have to think about this one. Simple is better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
5. Perhaps it is just the scenarios I have played but it does seem that a unit can be ZOC locked too easily. You just need to get a couple of units in place to pin the opponent and can then work to isolate and eliminate them at leisure. Perhaps a minimum of one hex movement for any unit. Also am not sure whether even very weak units still exert the same ZOC on movement.

ZOCs don't pin the enemy. It costs to enter an enemy ZOC; it costs nothing to leave. Units are supposed to be able to move 1-hex per turn; if they can't then that's a bug I think.



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Post #: 11
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