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Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operations - 3/28/2018 2:28:07 AM   
apache85

 

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Hi Guys,

As promised here is the next installment in the series of 12 submarine tutorials. This batch focuses on submarine ASW, with some more thorough explanations of things like towed array placement, sonar masking and cavitation. The installment culminates with the second operational exam, where you get to use nuclear weapons!

Attachment (1)

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 11:53:36 AM   
mikkey


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Thanks apache85, I'm looking forward to continuing your submarine tutorials!

(in reply to apache85)
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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 12:32:58 PM   
ExMachina


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Awesome!!!

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 2:02:15 PM   
c3k

 

Posts: 187
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@apache85,

Okay, I'm a newb and have only been dabbling in the game(s) since I've gotten 'em. I've looked at the manual. (Because otherwise thewood1 would get angry. ;) ) Where is the default install location for the game? I'm trying to find the correct directory/folder in which I should place the tutorial scenarios so that they'll show up when I start the game.

This is basic...but not in the manual. :)

Thanks,
Ken

Edited to add: ODG, I found it. I purchased the game direct from Matrix, but also ended up doing Steam. Don't ask. I found my Steam directory.
Here it is: D:\Game Vault\Steam\SteamApps\common\Command Modern Air Naval Operations\Scenarios
(I've put a LOT of games in my D drive in the "Game Vault". I moved Steam off my SSD since it eats up too much space.) A "normal" install would be on the C drive.

Hope this helps someone....

< Message edited by c3k -- 3/28/2018 2:05:51 PM >

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Post #: 4
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 2:34:35 PM   
Andrea G


Posts: 305
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From: Genoa, Italy
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Hi Apache,

I was playing your tutorials, awesome as ever.

I just want to point a couple of strange happenings.

In tutorial 2.3, if I recall correctly it's stated that the AIP doesn't recharge the batteries; but at the end of the scenario, after I have depleted the remaining battery charge and started using AIP, the batteries started to charge again; moreover the battery remained Bold while AIP didn't, even if it was deplenting his charge.
I am a little at loss to understand how much time the sub can run on AIP.

Second point, while I was trying to understand how my sub was running, the scenario time ended and, even if I sink the Akula, a message told me that I wasn't able even to detect it and gave me -250 points, that's really not important but maybe you would like to check what happened.

Here is the savegame.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Andrea G -- 3/28/2018 2:35:48 PM >


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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 2:45:16 PM   
c3k

 

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Tutorial 1.1. It took SEVEN F21 Artemis torpedoes to sink the target ship. Fired as one, BDA: light flooding. The target speed went from 23kts to 22kts. That's a pretty weak-ass torpedo. Next, I fired a salvo of two. They both hit. Target went to about 19kts. Repeated a dual salvo. Target down to 16kts and Major Flooding. Okay...poking holes.

Final salvo of two...got it to sink.

Now, the tutorial is great. It just taught me that F21 Artemis torpedoes can't sink a container ship. 3 hits and minor flooding and a speed of 19kts??? 5 hits and major flooding but still kept 16kts?

Hey, I'm a newb. I've never been torpedoed in real life. My experience is limited to watching videos of real ships being hit. This seemed...light.

But the tutorial is great! Thanks.

(in reply to Andrea G)
Post #: 6
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 5:22:16 PM   
$trummer

 

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Thank you!

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 8:13:32 PM   
$trummer

 

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Apache, this is a fantastic series of tutorials, thank you.

I have one quick question re. initial assumptions regarding the depth of the target contact in 2.1. Having successfully closed on the Han per your instructions, I notice its depth is -984 ft. Staying just above the layer limits the possibility of my being counter-detected. However, how would I know from the outset whether the Han is above or below the layer and therefore where to set my own depth to be able to maintain this contact while limiting my exposure to counter-detection?

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Post #: 8
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 11:20:21 PM   
ultradave


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These are good. Lots of cat and mouse. I did "cheat" on the first one, because completing it in 8 hours was rushed. And when the timer ended I was *just* out of torpedo range, but had the Han in my sights. So I ran another few minutes and launched torpedos. Got him. :-)

Probably guessed slightly off when doing one of my sprints and had to spend a little extra time catching up. But I do know one thing. Rushing things in Sub v Sub warfare is usually a really bad idea. :-)

Just started the 4th one.

Thanks for putting these out.

[edit] Finished #4. I got detected and fired at - outran a torpedo, but sank everyone. SSBN last after taking out his protection.

Nice job setting these up.

< Message edited by ultradave -- 3/28/2018 11:56:40 PM >


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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/28/2018 11:40:47 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1611
Joined: 12/18/2014
From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: c3k

Tutorial 1.1. It took SEVEN F21 Artemis torpedoes to sink the target ship. Fired as one, BDA: light flooding. The target speed went from 23kts to 22kts. That's a pretty weak-ass torpedo. Next, I fired a salvo of two. They both hit. Target went to about 19kts. Repeated a dual salvo. Target down to 16kts and Major Flooding. Okay...poking holes.

Final salvo of two...got it to sink.

Now, the tutorial is great. It just taught me that F21 Artemis torpedoes can't sink a container ship. 3 hits and minor flooding and a speed of 19kts??? 5 hits and major flooding but still kept 16kts?

Hey, I'm a newb. I've never been torpedoed in real life. My experience is limited to watching videos of real ships being hit. This seemed...light.

But the tutorial is great! Thanks.



Modern container ships are huge. A World War 2 liberty ship displaced about 14,500 tons while modern container ships can be over 200,000 tons in displacement. It's going to take more than one hit to vaporize it.

Further, the damage from torpedoes is not always the spectacular boom and ship is gone type explosion. A Perry FFG displaces around 4,100 and has documented cases of taking a warshot torpedo hit and taking several hours to sink.

Given enough time, one or two hits is enough to sink a merchant vessel, but to absolutely demolish it you can keep hitting it with torpedoes until there's nothing left.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 12:11:11 AM   
apache85

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: $trummer

Apache, this is a fantastic series of tutorials, thank you.

I have one quick question re. initial assumptions regarding the depth of the target contact in 2.1. Having successfully closed on the Han per your instructions, I notice its depth is -984 ft. Staying just above the layer limits the possibility of my being counter-detected. However, how would I know from the outset whether the Han is above or below the layer and therefore where to set my own depth to be able to maintain this contact while limiting my exposure to counter-detection?


You don't know; there are a few good reasons why just above the layer is a good choice though.

Sound travels faster and further as pressure increases; so having your towed array dangling below the layer is going to net you better results than having it in the surface duct (i.e. if a sub is 100nm away traveling deep you might hear it if your towed array is below the layer, the same sub at the same speed in shallow water at 100nm might not be detected even if your towed array is above the layer)

If the bad guy is below the layer you're at a distinct advantage because both his hull and towed array sonars are on the opposite side of the layer to you

Conversely, if the bad guy is above the layer he might have a slight edge with a towed array above the layer but that is mitigated by you having at least a bow sonar above the layer.

Transiting subs tend to do so at depth; this keeps them away from surface ships, aircraft and other prying eyes while also allowing much faster transit without cavitation. It's a trade-off because you then become vulnerable to tactics like the one taught in this scenario.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 12:26:22 AM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1611
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrea G

Hi Apache,

I was playing your tutorials, awesome as ever.

I just want to point a couple of strange happenings.

In tutorial 2.3, if I recall correctly it's stated that the AIP doesn't recharge the batteries; but at the end of the scenario, after I have depleted the remaining battery charge and started using AIP, the batteries started to charge again; moreover the battery remained Bold while AIP didn't, even if it was deplenting his charge.
I am a little at loss to understand how much time the sub can run on AIP.

Second point, while I was trying to understand how my sub was running, the scenario time ended and, even if I sink the Akula, a message told me that I wasn't able even to detect it and gave me -250 points, that's really not important but maybe you would like to check what happened.

Here is the savegame.




Ah. Yes I see what happened here; working as designed. If the scenario ends and you play on you might find weird stuff happening.

The AIP thing is a bit confusing, I will look into that.

_____________________________


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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 5:15:15 AM   
alphington

 

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Thanks for the continuing series. As a very raw recruit I have found the first sub tutes really helpful.

I'm hoping this is almost perfect timing too as currently I only own COW so when I have put your series 2 tutes into the DIR it tells me I'm not licensed to use them! As it's almost Easter though I'm hoping to get at least the base game from Matrix if they have their 30% sale in which case I can carry on my education in commanding these boats!

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 13
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 11:34:50 AM   
michaelm75au


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Tutorial 2.2
Event '08_Win' and '07_Lose' probably should include 'End scenario' action. Otherwise, even if you sink the Libyan and let time run out, you 'lose'

Tutorial 2.4
Event '4_Conclusion' doesn't include the 'End Scenario' action.

< Message edited by michaelm75au -- 3/29/2018 11:41:36 AM >


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Michael

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 12:37:38 PM   
Reg


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From: Victoria, Australia
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If you would like to try these tutorials as a campaign (keeps track of where you are up to and loads the next lesson in sequence), then just unzip and drop the attached two files into the game "scenarios\tutorials" folder along side the tutorial scenario files.

The attached campaign files are set up for the eight tutorials released so far and require a decisive victory to progress (it is a tutorial after all....)

Enjoy.

Attachment deleted to correct error. See post 18 below...

< Message edited by Reg -- 3/30/2018 8:28:50 AM >


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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 5:18:24 PM   
$trummer

 

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Joined: 7/27/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


If you would like to try these tutorials as a campaign (keeps track of where you are up to and loads the next lesson in sequence), then just unzip and drop the attached two files into the game "scenarios\tutorials" folder along side the tutorial scenario files.

The attached campaign files are set up for the eight tutorials released so far and require a decisive victory to progress (it is a tutorial after all....)

Enjoy.



Thanks very much for this, Reg. I was going to play through both sets of tuts anyway; this makes it all the more interesting.

< Message edited by $trummer -- 3/29/2018 9:20:31 PM >

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 5:20:39 PM   
$trummer

 

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Apache, I'm assuming you are going to do one more set of submarine ops tutorials ("Advanced"...?) in which case I'd like to request defensive tactics, please, as I am just as likely to end up on the wrong end of a fish than the right one. Thank you!

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/29/2018 8:06:10 PM   
mikkey


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Excellent tutorials! It might be good to get some points for the sinking of the Libyan submarine in 2.2. Thanks.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/30/2018 8:34:24 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2745
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

If you would like to try these tutorials as a campaign (keeps track of where you are up to and loads the next lesson in sequence), then just unzip and drop the attached two files into the game "scenarios\tutorials" folder along side the tutorial scenario files.

The attached campaign files are set up for the eight tutorials released so far and require a decisive victory to progress (it is a tutorial after all....)

Enjoy.



Sorry about this guys but you will have to download the files again as I made an error with the scenario victory scores. Unfortunately this would prevent you from getting past scenarios 4 & 5.

But all fixed now. Just download the file from this post and install as above.

Edit: Also fixed up campaign description which now displays correctly under Build 998.8.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Reg -- 4/25/2018 2:03:51 AM >


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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/30/2018 4:25:15 PM   
RockPaperScissors


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Thanks Apache85, really good tutorials; I never realized that sound masking was actually modelled (in some form) so much appreciated!

It got me thinking to what extent active sonar reflections are modelled e.g. one unit was 'lighting up' an area (with a target) with active sonar, other non-emitting units would be able to pick up that target, based on its sonar reflections.

So I did a quick test with three identical subs, each from a different side, placed them equidistant and facing eachother. Then I activated active sonar for a sub from one side (emitter), changed the position and heading of a sub (target) from another side and seeing whether the remaining sub (non-emitter) would be able to detect the target. However no matter how close the target is to the emmitter or at what angle (e.g. sonar signature) the non-emitter will not detect. The reflections of the target could simply be too weak to reach the non-emmitter as I had to place it at sufficient distance not to passively detect the target.

Anyone did similar tests or know whether this is actually modelled or not? Thanks in advance ...

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 3/31/2018 8:53:41 PM   
Nerconiglio


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Thank you very much Apache85 for this second round of tutorials. Useful to improve SSN skills, engaging in contents and very interesting to read all your explanations!

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War. War never changes.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/2/2018 10:49:50 PM   
giantsquid

 

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It's really a pleasure to try your tutorials. I'm learning something new each time, even if I played more that 150 scenarios.
Great work and thanks.


Francesco

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/5/2018 2:36:59 AM   
gregb41352

 

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Love your tutorials. I learn something new each time I play them.
Thanks for doing these.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/6/2018 5:00:45 PM   
magi

 

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i played these.... they were really good and definitely helped me improve my use of sub surface assets... which i used to suck at.... thanks....

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/19/2018 11:44:01 AM   
KissMeHardy

 

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First of all, thank you Apache85 for your excellent tutorials.

Secondly on tutorial 2.1 against the Han Sub which is the easiest way to plot an intercept course when you know the naval target's speed and bearing.

I used a pencil,paper,compass,ruler and protractor. Is there a easier way using the law of Sin's or some other mathematical equation?

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 25
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/19/2018 9:02:14 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 1611
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KissMeHardy

First of all, thank you Apache85 for your excellent tutorials.

Secondly on tutorial 2.1 against the Han Sub which is the easiest way to plot an intercept course when you know the naval target's speed and bearing.

I used a pencil,paper,compass,ruler and protractor. Is there a easier way using the law of Sin's or some other mathematical equation?


That is most impressive! Did you use graph paper or something else?

Tutorial 1.1 deals with plotting an intercept using the tools available in C:MANO, when you have a relatively solid fix on current position, speed and heading.

Tutorial 2.1 shows a method for localising and intercepting convergence zone contacts; the reason that the method in 1.1 might not apply well to convergence zone (CZ) contacts is that with CZ contacts often there are multiple possible positions for the contact (i.e. it could be in any of the 4 convergence zones displayed which are ~30nm in seperation).

I suppose if you had good data on the contacts heading and speed you could plot an intercept for each possible position (i.e. CZ along the bearing of the contact) and then align your course and speed to make those intercepts.

To answer your question of which is the easiest method for intercepting CZ contacts, it's the method outlined in the tutorial: maintain contact by turning to put the contact 90 degrees off your bow (port or starboard as appropriate to close with contact if its heading is known), when contact is lost as the contact passes through the CZ turn to match last known bearing and sprint to just before the convergence zone, then drift until contact is regained. Repeat until a direct path contact is achieved.

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RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/20/2018 7:16:14 PM   
i224747

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

If you would like to try these tutorials as a campaign (keeps track of where you are up to and loads the next lesson in sequence), then just unzip and drop the attached two files into the game "scenarios\tutorials" folder along side the tutorial scenario files.

The attached campaign files are set up for the eight tutorials released so far and require a decisive victory to progress (it is a tutorial after all....)

Enjoy.



Sorry about this guys but you will have to download the files again as I made an error with the scenario victory scores. Unfortunately this would prevent you from getting past scenarios 4 & 5.

But all fixed now. Just download the file from this post and install as above.




Pass-score of mission 1.2 should be 300 and not 350 to get the next campaign mission 1.3


< Message edited by i224747 -- 4/21/2018 5:05:28 PM >

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 27
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/25/2018 1:53:54 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2745
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: i224747

Pass-score of mission 1.2 should be 300 and not 350 to get the next campaign mission 1.3



Hi,

If you are not getting a score of 350 you are not doing all the tasks requested by the tutorial designer...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to i224747)
Post #: 28
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 4/28/2018 6:26:41 PM   
i224747

 

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To go within the 2nm range of the target should be a bonus but not a goal for passing this campaign mission.

The most natural and straightforward thing for the 1.2mission in this campaign would be to give a
Pass-score if the target sinks or is heavy damaged.

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 29
RE: Submarine Tutorials - Intermediate Submarine Operat... - 5/27/2018 4:11:02 AM   
magi

 

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whata guy....

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Post #: 30
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