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Oil, Mines & Industry - 3/25/2018 4:27:52 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9232
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
We were discussing this on another thread in the general area, but I thought I would continue here in the design area. I've made changes to reflect the importance of Oil, Mines and Industry. I am on a third playtest, making changes and adjustments as I go. I am having one trouble spot that I can't figure out, maybe someone can tell me where I am wrong.

Industrial Centers/Major Cities are set to 10.
Soviet Factory Moves are handled by separate DE's that are triggered when the Axis approach. The player will get an option to move a factory or not.
If the factory is moved, the original location should reduce from 10 to 6, and I am using the Supply Event to make these reductions, example below.

{
#NAME= DE 426 - Moscow Industry transfer to the Urals [one turn]
#POPUP=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 426[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 45
#FLAG_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#SEASON_FLAG= 0
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#SOURCE_POSITION=
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 221,65 [4,4]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
}

These seem to work as intended. I also don't want the original location to go above 6, and as resources will gain 1 each turn, I added the following:

{
#NAME= DE 426 - Moscow Industry transfer to the Urals [permanent]
#POPUP=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 426[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 45
#FLAG_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#SEASON_FLAG= 0
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#SOURCE_POSITION=
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 221,65 [1,1]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
}

At this point it doesn't work, because the locations continue to drop, all going to 1 as seen below. If anyone can see what I am doing wrong, I appreciate it !




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RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 3/25/2018 5:26:16 PM   
crispy131313


Posts: 2033
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline
You need to set up a dummy DE for the permanent script, the way you have it set up now the DE is only checked once so now it is firing every turn. With the dummy script it will only fire on 1 sides turn only.

Also you will have to consider that there may be an unintended consequence here that if Moscow is bombed while at supply 6 it will never regain supply. So a strategic attack will be permanent.

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RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 3/25/2018 7:03:10 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9232
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
This is DE 426 to trip the above. So this doesn't serve the purpose, you are saying I need to add another DE ?

{
#NAME= DE 426 - USSR: Transfer Moscow Industry to the Urals? (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP= Red Army Headquarters %N%NThe enemy's advance is threatening our industrial resources at Moscow. %N%NWould you like to authorize the transfer of Moscow's resources to safety in the Urals?
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= teletype_1.ogg, teletype_2.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 1
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 426
#MPP_UPDOWN= -15
#MPP_TURNS= 1
#MPP_TEXT= Transfer of Moscow factories
#NOTES= Moscow's industry will transfer to Siberia [267,56]
#NOTES_POSITION= 221,65
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; 267,67 is in Allied hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 267,67 [2]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - USSR politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Axis units near Moscow
#CONDITION_POSITION= 221,65 [6,6] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

quote:

consider that there may be an unintended consequence

Yes and I've been waiting to see something in these past three games, but hadn't noticed anything yet. Bombing is an issue and thanks for pointing it out, and I guess that it why it wasn't done this way originally. But if I am correct, the original doesn't work well either, as when you transfer the factories the resources take a hit, but then regain eventually back to the original value, so the factories aren't really moved I think

There is so much awesome flexibility, yet we can still find stuff that we can't get as we want it!

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Post #: 3
RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 3/25/2018 7:22:21 PM   
crispy131313


Posts: 2033
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline
Yes you will need to use another DE which will only be checked on the Axis turn, which in turn will trigger the supply script only once ever two turns (the Axis turn). Change your 2nd supply script to trigger 427[1] and use the below dummy script.

{
#NAME= DE 427 - Germany: Continuous Dummy Event To Represent Moscow's Lack Of Industrial Capacity (AI - 100% Yes)
#POPUP=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 426[1]
#COUNTRY_ID= 45
#TRIGGER= 100
#DISPLAY_ORDER= 1
; Set decision value
#DECISION= 427
#MPP_UPDOWN=
#MPP_TURNS=
#MPP_TEXT=
#NOTES=
#NOTES_POSITION=
; Set AI acceptance % (AI will accept 100% of the time)
#AI_RESPONSE= 100
#AI_RESPONSE_POPUP=
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#TEXT_RGB= 0,0,0
#SHADOW_RGB= 0,0,0
; Berlin is in Axis hands
#ALIGNMENT_POSITION= 173,74 [1]
;Set National Morale Trigger (dummy value)
#NATIONAL_MORALE_TRIGGER= 0 [0]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - USSR politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0]
; Dummy condition position (always satisfied)
#CONDITION_POSITION= 0,0 [0,0] [0,0] [0] [0]
}

As for the Ukraine industry scripts, you could make them 10,10 (Type 2) supply scripts and it would essentially kill industrial capacity in the region. And as a work around for Moscow, you could always put a mine(s)/industry directly adjacent (North-East) of Moscow and zap the mine to represent the transfer of industry instead. That way Moscow wouldn't be stripped of supply.



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Post #: 4
RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 3/25/2018 7:56:08 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9232
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
Great stuff! I'll get to work on it, thanks very much as usual

(in reply to crispy131313)
Post #: 5
RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 4/25/2018 5:55:52 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9232
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
I ended up making Kiev, Dnepro, and other 'initial' factory locations 6/6's. When an Axis unit gets close to each of these locations, a DE triggers to move them east. The move costs 15 MPP's and knocks that location to 0 for one turn. The result is the initial location then gains 1 each turn but really the Axis will over run them so they don't benefit the USSR, and for the Axis they only go as high as 5, so they then are the same as any other Town. Meanwhile, when a factory is moved over to the east by those DE's, a new location starts from 0 and eventually reaches 10 like a normal City/Industrial location. So far it seems to work well. So far

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 4/25/2018 6:19:00 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 4/25/2018 6:15:21 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9232
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
While the Resource Values for individual Resources can't be set because each country has one set of Resource Values, one thing that can be done is to not set a Resource on a rail line. In the below case, Grozny is on a rail line, Maikop is not. Baku is on a rail line [and has two oil hexes] but in the pictured case it is Axis Occupied and not yet connected by rail back the Germany, so it is at a lower output. This is good as it represents the Axis having to have a rail line back home to get the full effect [but doesn't represent that the Allies would have destroyed the facilities, but that can be handled with Supply Events].

One negative side effect is that in some cases Resources change ownership, which means the output switches to whatever the new owner's output is set to. For example, a minor oil field in Eastern Poland becomes a Baku when that area is switched to USSR control! But again, those cases can be covered by Supply Events, like the ones shown earlier in this thread.

And I'm not trying to tell Bill or Hubert anything here in this thread, I know they know [they designed it all]. But some of this might be helpful for modders in the future




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RE: Oil, Mines & Industry - 4/25/2018 7:01:55 PM   
Hairog


Posts: 1568
Joined: 7/11/2000
From: Cornucopia, WI
Status: offline
That is good to know.

Thanks

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