Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Range of aircraft

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Classic (Free) Games] >> War In Russia: The Matrix Edition >> Range of aircraft Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Range of aircraft - 5/31/2003 8:29:50 AM   
jcj

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/25/2003
Status: offline
The following site has ranges and other stats for most WWII aircraft.

http://lemairesoft.digitalrice.com/schema/8.html

The ranges given are much different then those used in the game. What made me check out the range is the stat on the HE-177. In the game it is 19 wheras a HE111H is 41. Seemed a little strange. The site says a HE-177 has a range of 5000km, but the 111H has no more than a 1500km range depending on the model. Bf-109g's have a range of approximately 700km but in the game they are a 10 while again the HE-177's are a 19. Seems very odd.

Also of interest is the bomb load. In the v.3.3 game I have the load as 125! while the JU-88 is a 44. According to the stats the 88 had a payload of 3000kg while the He-177 had a payload of 6000kg.

Any thoughts?
Post #: 1
- 5/31/2003 9:15:32 PM   
K62


Posts: 644
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: DC
Status: offline
I think it was given the reduced range to simulate the technical breakdowns it was prone to.

_____________________________

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak"
John Adams

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 2
- 6/1/2003 1:49:16 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7836
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline
The He-177 was known as "Reichsfeuerzeug" as many of them fell out of the sky burning without enemy interdiction

To reflect this issue it's range was reduced but within this range and with high experience it's a deadly plane

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 3
Sensible - 6/1/2003 4:06:05 AM   
jcj

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/25/2003
Status: offline
That may be sensible within the confines of the game, but certainly does not reflect reality. Its prone to blow up, so we'll just fly it within 1000km range and call it fair? The plane was never used in this type of role. The probabilities of engine fire would increase drastically with the stresses of front-line combat. I'm not even sure this plane was capable of using the unimproved landing strips so prevalent in Russia.

In the game the plan becomes a superbomber within short range. The bomb load is far to high. I think the original version of the game had it more correct, although it was a little too low at 1.5 times the JU-88.

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 4
- 6/1/2003 7:14:20 PM   
alfonso

 

Posts: 470
Joined: 10/22/2001
From: Palma de Mallorca
Status: offline
One can edit all those values to get the stats he likes. When playing PBEM games this issue can be settled between the two players.

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 5
- 6/2/2003 1:48:28 PM   
Chairman

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 9/24/2001
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline
[QUOTE]In the game the plan becomes a superbomber within short range. The bomb load is far to high. I think the original version of the game had it more correct, although it was a little too low at 1.5 times the JU-88.[/QUOTE]

Well if I remember right its bombload were similar to the B17, the Germans used the He 177 as a "glider" when attacking England, it went up to its ceiling and started gliding towards England were it was to fast and generaly to high, but the accuracy of those bombing runs were rather mediocre. That way they had a lot less off "fire coffins" when they were used.

By the way does anyone want to have the antitank version of the He 177:rolleyes: ?

The maximal bombload was: 13.200 Ilbs (About 6000 kg)

How many were built:
8 Prototypes
35 He 177A-0 (Mainly Arado built)
130 He 177A-1 (Arado built)
170 He 177A-3 (Heinkel Built)
826 He 177A-5

_____________________________

A great man ones said "Veni Vidi Vici" and "Alea iacta est"
But a lot other said this "Ave Caesar,morituri te salutant"

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 6
load - 6/4/2003 4:17:04 AM   
jcj

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 5/25/2003
Status: offline
Right the payload was 6000kg. The payload for the 88 was 3000kg. So the rating in the game should be double the 88? right?

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 7
- 6/4/2003 1:32:45 PM   
Chairman

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 9/24/2001
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline
HMMM that would bee correct, but when I try to get the bombload I get conflikting info.
B17G about 2700-3600 kg
B24J 3600kg
B25J 1800kg
B29 9072kg
B32 9000kg (Only 115 built, before war ended)
Lancaster about 5500 Mk1? - 6350 kg
Whitley V 3175kg
Ju 88 A-1 2000 - 2500kg
Ju 88 A-4 3000kg
Ju 188 Bomber version 3000kg
Do 217E 2700 - 4000kg version K and M gets 2 Hs 293 missils/rockets?
He 111 2000kg

Some of theese numbers are very conflikting so it might bee a problem to get it right.

_____________________________

A great man ones said "Veni Vidi Vici" and "Alea iacta est"
But a lot other said this "Ave Caesar,morituri te salutant"

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 8
- 6/4/2003 7:39:11 PM   
czerpak

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Poland
Status: offline
Thats interesting issue.
Myself I prefer to have correct data for equipment in the game, without shortcuts like : " They didnt use He177 as strategic bomber so lets cut its range by half"
This plane COULD be used in such role, so why we ( players) are not allowed to ?
I'd rather have it deleted from the game, than have it with fake data.

_____________________________

Think first, fight afterwards, the soldier's art.

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 9
- 6/4/2003 8:57:05 PM   
RickyB

 

Posts: 1155
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Denver, CO USA
Status: offline
Arnaud has been the keeper of the plane data from the beginning, so I can't really comment on the data directly. However, he has always based the ratings on hard data, but part of the problem has been the different data sources and what they base their data on. For the bombers especially, you had various bomb loads at different ranges, and different sources would provide a different mix of numbers depending on the ranges used for the bombloads. So he probably had a shorter range bombload for the He177 that he used (presumably because he couldn't find hard data on a longer range bombload), while some other bombers might have been based on a longest range bombload.

A tough call, but I know he hasn't tweaked the numbers purposely to prevent certain mission types. And there are so many other factors that come into play. In the east, the airfields were not very heavily built up and I doubt there were too many places the He177 could even fly from to reach Soviet targets. It required some very large, strong runways unlike most German bombers.

_____________________________

Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi





(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 10
- 6/6/2003 2:06:52 PM   
Lienz Cossack

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 5/20/2003
From: Moscow
Status: offline
I think the He177 problem is easily sold by giving it a lower durability, much lower than Ju's therefore when they were engaged they would suffer heavier losses to reflect their unreliability.

Dog fighting for a bomber is probably too high too but then I am talking about the Possum 6 version.

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 11
- 6/6/2003 2:24:13 PM   
Chairman

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 9/24/2001
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Dog fighting for a bomber is probably too high too but then I am talking about the Possum 6 version.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I have read on several places that the B17 had a rather bad placement of it´s guns, if it were all guns or only 1 or 2 that were bad placed I dont know.

About the lower durability it might work, the problem would bee how much to lower it.

_____________________________

A great man ones said "Veni Vidi Vici" and "Alea iacta est"
But a lot other said this "Ave Caesar,morituri te salutant"

(in reply to jcj)
Post #: 12
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Classic (Free) Games] >> War In Russia: The Matrix Edition >> Range of aircraft Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.212