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PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/20/2018 4:41:11 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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I find it impossible to plan for future airframe and engine production needs because I have no visibility about the upgrade paths of future air group reinforcements. I will receive many air groups with older Zero and Oscar models, Tony Ib/Ic/Id etc. in 1944/45, but I cannot find any way to display their upgrade paths. How many of those M2 Zero groups will upgrade to Sam or M8, how many will remain stuck with M5 or M5c? How many Oscar groups will switch to Frank or something else and how many will stick with Oscars? Which factories can be allowed to upgrade and which older models must be kept in production for future reinforcements? In short, I would need a list of airgroups and their upgrade paths. I suspect Tracker has the answer, but I have not found the time yet to make it work. Does anyone has such a list - for the DBB mod? Thx in advance.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/20/2018 4:42:35 PM >


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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/20/2018 5:12:33 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Tracker

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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/20/2018 5:23:34 PM   
Lowpe


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Your main planes will be the:

Oscar line
Zero Line...all eventually either get withdrawn or advance to Sam
Tojo line gets quite a few sentai
Frank A, B and R
Ki 94II
Tony line...2 to start with A, and then up to 10 eventually, I think with half split between 100-I and 100-II.

Maybe 6-9 George Sqdrns whole game
Jack 4 squadrons and I think 2 get withdrawn

Shinden, Karyu, 83 usually around a few squadrons...but the upgrade path is like George to Shinden, Jack to Rocket, etc.

Very few fighter bombers, really shafted on night fighters and dedicated kamikazes. No Norm, Myrt NF.

Grow to like the Sonia.


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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/20/2018 7:07:53 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Tracker knows and shows the possible upgrades for every squadron

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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/21/2018 2:10:10 AM   
PaxMondo


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PDU OFF is easy: build a little bit of everything. More Oscar/Zero than most other models. Keep Nate factory around. That's about it. Oh, and be sure to build out the Ki-21 Ia completely. They are used to upgrade the 1E bombers to 2E for a lot of air groups in Manchuria.

The only thing you can really build more than historical of consequence is CV aircraft .... all the groups will upgrade to the latest models as fast as you get them. PDU OFF games, I am far more likely to pull all my air groups off my CV's routinely to use for other missions. They are big groups with the latest aircraft. Sucks to have to use Nates in '43 ....

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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/21/2018 6:26:24 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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Nates in 43? only for training, and not many groups either...most upgrade to Oscars and Tojos and Tonies.

I like PDU OFF, a clear taste of realism...

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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/21/2018 7:55:18 AM   
Barb


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Depends on PDU OFF/On settings primarily.

The basic list is like this:
IJAAF:
Ki-43 Oscar line - primary, you need lot of them, but do not overbuild Mk.Ic/IIa. About half of the Sentais will later switch to Ki-84 Frank, but some will remain (plan for about 700 in squadrons at one time in 1944/1945). With PDU ON, you can tone Oscars down in favor of Franks.
Ki-44 Tojo line - with PDU OFF, just keep them along (about 300 at a time in squadrons). Mk.IIc gets armor. With PDU ON many players lean on the Tojo heavily as its excellent sweeper in 1942-1943 before Frank is around.
Ki-45 Nick line - basic anti-bomber, rear area or fighter-bomber plane up to 1944. Several light bomber Sentais convert to Nicks. (also about 300 at a time in squadrons).
Ki-61 Tony line - Mk.Ia (two sentais), Mk.Ib (the same two or three sentais), Mk.Ic (about 100 total), Mk.Id (SR2, almost all previous upgrade to this so about 250 frontline strength), Mk.II-KAI (SR4, want to avoid/skip as much as possible) then the line goes to Ki-100
Ki-84 Frank line - want to lean heavily on this. As several Oscar/Tojo units switch to these, it is useful to switch Oscar factories as well.
Ki-100 line - Several Tony units switch to these, so it is good to have these around.
(Your late war mix would probably be Frank+Ki-100+few of everything else you have to spread losses around)

IJNAF:
A6M Zero line - you want this , because there is nothing better for most of the game. Especially in terms of carrier aircraft. I tend to pick models for carrier service based on their parameters (A6M2, A6M3a, A6M5, A6M5c, A6M8 for carrier decks, A6M3, A6M5c for land bases). Basically hundreds.
J2M Jack line - just few Kokutais (like 4 total) in PDU OFF. Good anti-bomber capabilities. J2M3 has SR2 IIRC.
N1K George line - early just 1 Kokutai, later a few more, but not that many too.
A7M Sam line - good to have at least for CVs. I think most of the A6M units can go to Sam at some point.
(Your late war mix would be probably George+Zero+ whatever else you have)

I would also recommend Tracker for this. You can see upgrade paths for each units and the Aircraft build screen has a field named like "Recomended built" (that sums up unit size (active/reinforcements) upgradable to model, add reserve aircraft, and attrition and you have it more or less).

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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/21/2018 5:04:00 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Thank you for the replies, guys!

Of course I was aware that with PDU off I cannot go all-out for Franks and Georges and will need to keep other planes in production - but just how many is difficult to judge without overview over the upgrade paths of future reinforcements.

Guess I need really need tracker to see if I should keep just one or several factories producing the Oscar IV and Zero M5c etc.


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RE: PDU off help needed for production planning - 3/21/2018 5:54:46 PM   
Aurorus

 

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As others have mentioned tracker is almost essential to PDU:off R&D planning, if you are doing it for the first time. Also the upgrade paths for some squadrons are changed in DBB from stock. The same may be the case for other mods. I do not know.

Some Notes on the various airframes and engines:

1) Nakajima 35 engine bonus is crucial, in my opinion, in PDU:off, because you have fewer factories to dedicate to R&D and must move through the complete tree for the A6 line and through the Ki-43 IIIa, at least. Therefore, your actual early-war air production of Oscars, Zeros, and Ki-45s probably should be less than in a PDU:ON game. For example, if you produce 540 Nakajima 35 engines per month and have 8 factories dedicated to the A6 line and 4 to the Oscar line, you only have 180 engines for Ki-45s, A6M2s, and Ki-43s remaining. With the Ki-45s using 2 per airplane (60 if you have 1 size-30 factory), this leaves only 120 engines for Zeros, Oscars, Lillies, and Kates.

2) In my opinion, the importance of R&D on Tony and Tojo is amplified in PDU:off, because 40% of your 1944-45 air groups will be equipped with these frames. So you want the development of these lines to keep pace with allied technology. Something along the lines of 4 factories on each: one of which can be converted to production when the first model is available.

3) Overall, you have fewer factories available for R&D because you must produce a greater assortment of aircraft. It is helpful to assign a few small factories (size 5 or 6) to the various models that are in limited production in the beginning: i.e. Petes, C5M2 Babs, and Tinas come to mind. Once 40-50 of these aircraft are in the pool, switch these factories to later-war limited production models (such as Hickories, A6M2 Rufes, and so forth).

4) The A6 line is complex, as you know. Most groups upgrade from the A6M2 to the A6M3a before moving on to the A6M5s, A6M8, and then the Sam. So the question you must ask at the start is whether you want to slow R&D on the later models (A6M5-A6M8) to bring the A6M3a into production early or whether you want to skip A6M3a R&D and move directly into the A6M5. If you want to skip the A6M3a, then you set your factories to the A6M2-Rufe at start and upgrade to the A6M5, beginning in March probably. If you want to advance the A6M3a, then you set your factories to the A6M3 and switch to the A6M3a in April or May. This will set back your progress on the A6M5 line by 3 or 4 months, but give you a very marked advantage in the quality of your CV air in late 1942. The drawback, however, is that the A6M8 will not be available, probably, when the Hellcat appears, which will give the allies a marked advantage in CV-air quality for 3 or 4 months in 1943. In both stock and DBB, you have one large LBA Zero group (6th Sentai, I believe) that upgrades directly from A6M3 to A6M5. You also have several Pete squadrons that upgrade to the A6M2 Rufe and then directly to the A6M5. Keep this in mind. These small squadrons can provide you with some A6M5s on your CVs in mid 1942 if you skip the A6M3a.

In both stock and DBB, there are 4 or 5 groups that withdraw in mid-late 1944 that never upgrade beyond the A6M5. Therefore, you will want 2 factories producing A6M5s. One you will upgrade to the A6M5b, A6M5c, and then A6M8. The other, smaller factory will remain on A6M5s until late 1944.

5) The Ki-43 line is similar to the A6M line in that many groups do not upgrade to the Oscar IIa. Therefore, at start, you probably want 2 factories producing Ki-43 Ics. One you will upgrade to the Ki-43 IIa. The other, smaller factory (size 20 is sufficient) will remain on the Ki-43 Ic until that IIb is available. In stock R&D on the Ki-43s beyond the IIIa is mostly optional in my opinion, because most groups upgrade to the Frank or the Tony after the IIIa. In DBB, R&D on the IIIa is optional, in my opinion, since many groups upgrade from the IIb to the Frank, Tony, or later-model Tojos.

6) I find that I have enough factories to assign 8 to Frank and 4 or 5 to Sam if I have 8 on the A6M2, only 4 on the Ki-43, 4 on Tony, and 4 on Tojo. I also have 1 size-30 on a few late-war models, such as the Ki-94. In stock, most A6M squadrons upgrade to the A7M2 before the A7M3. One of the most frustrating aspects of DBB for the Japanese player is that most IJN LBA squadrons do not upgrade to the A7M2 from the A6M8. They upgrade to the A7M3. This dimishes the quality of the late-war IJN significantly in DBB. Therefore, I think it is helpful to have at least 1 size-30 factory on the A7M3 with the hope that luck will repair this factory sooner than the norm. In stock, it is not necessary to assign any factories to the A7M3, because the A7M2 is sufficient.

7) You will probably want 1 factory on the important night-fighters: the A6 night-fighter, the Ki-46 III Dinah Night Fighter, and possibly the Randy Night Fighter. You probably want 2 factores on the J1NI. One you will need to convert to production. The other you will want to advance the J1 model with radar. As you probably know, it is not entirely helpful to advance the nightfighters before the date when the air-search radar is available (June 1944, I believe), so 1 factory on each shoud be sufficient to advance most to June 1944.


< Message edited by Aurorus -- 3/21/2018 6:09:55 PM >

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