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Basic player's guide - 3/19/2018 10:45:15 PM   
thedoctorking


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I'm trying to come up with a basic player's guide for a friend of mine I just talked into buying the game. I wrote the attached document. Any suggestions?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 6/24/2018 2:51:03 AM >
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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/19/2018 11:03:54 PM   
ICalli


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You sir, are a golden friend.

-posted to get me to the 10 post min

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 5:08:30 AM   
56ajax


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An excellent read. Not just for beginners but for impatient buggers like me.

Question : I didn't think that you could swap UV2 thingies for anything...

and how would you like potential feedback....post here, pm???

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 5:24:59 AM   
thedoctorking


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Go ahead and post it.

Yes, the UV2's are tactical bombers and you can have them instead of IL-2's. And there is, as I say, no shortage whatsoever.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 2:06:35 PM   
Telemecus


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Excellent resource!

I think the point made was though that you cannot swap U2VS air groups to Il-2s or anything else. You can of course create other tactical bomber airgroups and swap them with other models (not U2-VS). And I assume disband U2-VS if you reach the number of airgroups limit.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/20/2018 2:14:42 PM >

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 6:01:31 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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If you don't mind making a Pdf (formation is a bit weird in word for the document) I can add this to the "library of WitE resources"...

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 3/20/2018 6:02:13 PM >

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 8:30:16 PM   
thedoctorking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Excellent resource!

I think the point made was though that you cannot swap U2VS air groups to Il-2s or anything else. You can of course create other tactical bomber airgroups and swap them with other models (not U2-VS). And I assume disband U2-VS if you reach the number of airgroups limit.


Yes, if a squadron is listed as an "NBAP", then their aircraft cannot be swapped for IL-2's (or any other types, I believe). But if a squadron is a "BAP" or has no designation (just the number), it can have U2VS as its plane type. And you have tons of U2VS's. The limiting factor, as you suggest, is the number of air groups you can have. I used to make tons of NBAP squadrons, figuring that they were a training ground for pilots who could then fly more useful planes, but have subsequently realized that this is a trap and those squadrons can only ever be disbanded (and don't do much damage anyway). So now, I build regular tactical bombing squadrons, set them on night missions when their experience levels are low and German fighters are plentiful, and, if IL-2's are short, swap them out for the endless supply of U2's. I should make that clearer in the doc, thanks.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/20/2018 8:31:36 PM   
thedoctorking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

If you don't mind making a Pdf (formation is a bit weird in word for the document) I can add this to the "library of WitE resources"...

I'd like to get some more comments from more experienced players and finalize my draft, first, but of course, I have no objection to it being placed in the library.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/21/2018 2:00:20 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Yes, if a squadron is listed as an "NBAP", then their aircraft cannot be swapped for IL-2's (or any other types, I believe). But if a squadron is a "BAP" or has no designation (just the number), it can have U2VS as its plane type.

That is a big learning point for me and would completely change my approach to managing the air force as Soviets.

Dinglir's AARs are worth reading for how to use U2VS effectively. At the price of a lot of micromanagement they could even give you the most bangs for your buck in terms of enemy damaged/dead to arms and supplies used. And the U2VS can do more ground damage than one of the Soviet level bombers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
I'd like to get some more comments from more experienced players and finalize my draft, first, but of course, I have no objection to it being placed in the library.


In that case I will later make a detailed set of suggestions later. However given that you will probably never have a final version you may find it easier to simply update it continuously when you want to, add one to a version number and change it to that one in the library of resources? Unfortunately with WitE there is always more to learn. Like U2VS airgroups for me for instance ...

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/21/2018 10:19:38 PM   
ericv

 

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quote:

- Check weather for next turn (always reliable, as far as I know).


Not always. In my current game as SHC with random weather vs Human, I had a forecast for snow in the central russia region on turn 19. That region covers almost the entire active front. Took my sweet time setting up defenses, but it turned out to be mud next turn anyway.

It was the only time sofar that the prediction wasn't correct.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/22/2018 4:33:10 AM   
thedoctorking


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Yes, in another game I'm playing I had an incorrect prediction. And apparently, the prediction can be different for the different sides.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/22/2018 5:05:18 AM   
thedoctorking


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Here is a .pdf of what I have so far. I'll send another version later as I get more comments.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/22/2018 2:36:10 PM   
Telemecus


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As promised some of my suggestions - although they may be more for other players to comment on and correct my mistakes first! :)

Two things worth doing before anything else
i) Adjust your air doctrine - after any air missions are flown some of this cannot be changed, this can include auto missions you had not intended
ii) Select which airgroups get upgrade only/autoswap/replacements as part of your air pools management. There is a happy medium between doing it all manually (expensive point wise) and putting all to auto (which will mean the AI giving your best planes to airgroups with the worst experience that withdraw next turn, or switching the same groups back and forth all the time). Doing this right at the start means you can see all airgroups - once some go to reserve through transit you cannot adjust their settings. For example you could put all to manual but leave a few of the best of each type to upgrade only and leave the AI to do it for you for free where you want it to do it.

I disagree that any ToE below 70% is bad - many of mine are at 20%. Putting it as low as possible is just another way of saying no hiring here. If manpower/arms points/pools are scarce you actively want to choke all apart from where you really want them to go. For Axis for example all artillery is on 20% for me until after blizzard. You need to prioritise on map units and for blizzard rifle squads. Having forty unready infantry infantry divisions with lots of high ToE artillery SUs after blizzard is pretty pointless. You do not have enough arms/manpower for everyone until then - so one more artillery piece will mean one less rifle squad elsewhere.

As a general rule I would say you want to send between 10% and 33% of your airforce (this is as much as 50% of what is on the map) to reserve - raise the morale/fatigue thresholds if you do not send enough. Also if you are going to have an air doctrine of 50% required to fly then send any with less than 50% to reserve - there is no point keeping air groups on the map that do not fly (or perhaps only if you expect them to get replacements for your next turn - which is tenuous). And if an airbase has a lot of damaged aircraft without the support to fix them send them to reserve so they can be fixed with its infinite home support/supply. Also if you have any airgroups with zero miles unflown at the end think of sending them to reserve. Every rotation in and out gives an additional one off boost to morale - so use it if you are not otherwise using your airgroups.

As axis there is an argument to use all points in the good weather for HQBUs and only change leaders from turn 16 or so. But there are arguments the other way particularly with the higher HQBU costs now. Model to I, vKluge to OKH and Knobbelsdorf and vArnim to panzer corps are probably the priorities for many- but again debateable.

Axis in general should only spend points to reassign construction and pioneer SUs - all others can be aassigned for free. Unlock all HQs (or when enough of your army group construction are on map and so do not get reassigned automatically from army groups/OKH) to let them flow up and assign the ones you want down each turn. Zero cost SU assignment. Personally I would aim for zero SUs in each HQ - putting six in everyone and moving them around with supply and movement cost is a huge waste. Your SUs as Axis are equivalent to another two armies. Keep them in OKH or other high commands. But yes when you commit a unit to combat only then assign down as many SUs as you want. If you have an HQ with no combats, it should have no SUs. At the end of the turn if you think the HQ might have units in combat for the enemy stage then yes do assign SUs then for the enemy phase. In summer 1941 for Axis this will be rare. You should think of SUs (especially when you are on the offensive) as something you only call down when needed like air strikes, not something you keep permanently in forward HQs away from rails. You mention this as a trick at the beginning - this is actually how it should be throughout for Axis and business as usual. Assign SUs down only when needed, just-in-time, and let them drift back to high command afterwards.

Before anything else first switch fighters or fighter mission fighter bombers to nights. Move one of your airbases to where you want them to be and air transfer them to it. Then switch on that one to day missions to intercept any interdiction missions. The first thing you should want to do is set up where your fighters will be for enemy interdiction. I know this adds yet another complication to air deployment - but if interdiction is a problem you do want fighter defence, and you want it in where you want the fighters to end up at, not where they start at.

Remember you can stack your airbases three high and not move them one hex if you move the one with the lowest ID there first, air transfer to it, then the next one and so on.

I think final air should include something on detection levels and recon. Getting units in clear to detection 4 means a two thirds chance of seeing them next turn and not having to find them again. And much more interdiction. Getting airbases on detection level 1 to at least 2 again means you will see them next turn.

The fighters you call up from reserve will be the freshest ones available for your enemies turn. You want them to be taking the lead during your enemies turn. Plan ahead where they will go - and make sure you know how many in reserve you have to call up. Similarly other combat aircraft you call out of reserve will be the best ones for interdiction/ground support in the enemy's turn.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/22/2018 6:31:02 PM   
thedoctorking


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Thanks, Telemecus!

Updated to include suggestions from Telemecus:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/31/2018 5:25:53 AM   
56ajax


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Sorry for the delay, been moving house:

Most of these comments are from the Soviet perspective:

If you assume that every unit will be smashed by the AXIS early on set the TOE lower and send some elements to the pool for a rainy day.

On random weather, the Log weather prediction is not always accurate.

Lower the TOE on fortified zones and disband just before they surrender

Lower the TOE on all isolated units just in case the pocket is opened for a turn or 2 and some elements get returned to the pool

It takes 26 weeks for a new unit to get to experience of 45 so start creation ASAP

If you are low on manpower reduce TOEs and create units that don't use manpower

If you are low on Armaments lower TOEs and create units that can be populated from excess in the pool.

All new units set to Refit until Morale = 45

Determine your rail usage - factories vs moving units; it costs less rail to move a unit at 10% TOE as opposed to 100%

Units assigned to Stavka usually don't get their full supply or fuel; not sure that it matters but I assign inexperieinced units to an HQ behind the front AND it costs ZERO admin points to reassign.

Flog the Soviet airforce to death.

There is no intelligence in Soviet airbase naming except for VVS (used to supply partisans with nightime IL4s)

Partisans tend to form in the Centre and South (not North), sit in the marshes and do nothing

Airbases with bombers need lots of trucks

If you have the chance to cut off a AXIS spearhead do it with the knowledge that your units will be surrounded next Turn

Attack the German Inf; Panzers are invincible.

After?/From? November use up all your Admin points as any excess will be consumed by auto unit creation





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RE: Basic player's guide - 3/31/2018 2:27:32 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
There is no intelligence in Soviet airbase naming except for VVS (used to supply partisans with nightime IL4s)

Consider OSNAZ the same as VVS. Also SAD cannot get guards status and disband. Ealier posts that PVO bases can only be used by interceptors are incorrect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Partisans tend to form in the Centre and South (not North), sit in the marshes and do nothing

I always have a lot in the north. But if you mean in historically non-Russian areas then to some extent yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Airbases with bombers need lots of trucks

And yet a lot more even again in the logistics phase if they are not on or close to repaired rail lines. And we have not even spoken about transports ...

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/31/2018 2:32:31 PM >

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RE: Basic player's guide - 4/1/2018 1:39:45 AM   
56ajax


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
There is no intelligence in Soviet airbase naming except for VVS (used to supply partisans with nightime IL4s)

Consider OSNAZ the same as VVS. Also SAD cannot get guards status and disband. Ealier posts that PVO bases can only be used by interceptors are incorrect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Partisans tend to form in the Centre and South (not North), sit in the marshes and do nothing

I always have a lot in the north. But if you mean in historically non-Russian areas then to some extent yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax
Airbases with bombers need lots of trucks

And yet a lot more even again in the logistics phase if they are not on or close to repaired rail lines. And we have not even spoken about transports ...

I don't mean historically...there are none in what corresponds to AGN. I think latest changes have turned the partisan creation down by 50% to 100%

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RE: Basic player's guide - 4/1/2018 2:38:36 AM   
thedoctorking


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Thanks, everybody. I will try to incorporate these and get a new version up soon.

I did incorporate Telemecus' suggestion about TOE.

If a unit is higher than the TOE max does it return elements to store to reduce itself or does it just reduce by attrition? I noticed that when I create rifle corps in 1942, they have like 120% TOE, but then a couple of turns later they are back under 100%.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 4/1/2018 4:08:40 AM   
56ajax


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I am quoting the great morvael from a post nearly 2 years old :

Units return only elements from slots above 125% of MAX TOE, but MAX TOE below 80 is treated as 80. And 125% of 80 is 100. So you can only hasten returns of elements above 100% TOE by reducing MAX TOE to 80, but not more.

So the TOE of the unit maybe 125% but some of the elements maybe 150% (and others only 50%). So yes it can reduce itself, but the calculation is done per type of element.



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RE: Basic player's guide - 4/5/2018 4:21:35 AM   
56ajax


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I have a question from your guide

'You should be working against the enemy’s movement points, not his combat value.'

In practical terms what does this mean?

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RE: Basic player's guide - 4/7/2018 3:20:54 PM   
CJM

 

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Awesome this is! Danke!

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RE: Basic player's guide - 5/6/2018 3:25:16 PM   
thedoctorking


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This means that you are trying to make attackers use up their MP in slogging through your lines versus trying to have positions strong enough to defeat them outright. So you throw some troops out there who are strong enough to force the enemy's infantry to make a deliberate attack, which will use up most or all of their MP. Then, the next line can soak up many of the armor's MP, if possible at the deliberate attack level as well. Finally, you have a third and even a fourth line that will slow them down enough that their offensive will just create a "bulge".

Then, units that have attacked and moved are limited in their ability to dig in and thus their defense will be low, so they can be counter-attacked in the next turn if you have strong reserves. If you don't, at a minimum they will be low on fuel and supplies and thus on movement points next turn, so you can run away from them or construct another multi-level line in front of them. The attacker ends up wading at an ever-decreasing pace through a swamp of your units.

Until you are finally strong enough to counterattack, and maybe even to pocket him.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 5/7/2018 4:36:03 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

This means that you are trying to make attackers use up their MP in slogging through your lines versus trying to have positions strong enough to defeat them outright. So you throw some troops out there who are strong enough to force the enemy's infantry to make a deliberate attack, which will use up most or all of their MP. Then, the next line can soak up many of the armor's MP, if possible at the deliberate attack level as well. Finally, you have a third and even a fourth line that will slow them down enough that their offensive will just create a "bulge".

Then, units that have attacked and moved are limited in their ability to dig in and thus their defense will be low, so they can be counter-attacked in the next turn if you have strong reserves. If you don't, at a minimum they will be low on fuel and supplies and thus on movement points next turn, so you can run away from them or construct another multi-level line in front of them. The attacker ends up wading at an ever-decreasing pace through a swamp of your units.

Until you are finally strong enough to counterattack, and maybe even to pocket him.


What turns would this encompass that you are doing what you wrote above on?

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RE: Basic player's guide - 5/7/2018 5:48:31 PM   
thedoctorking


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

This means that you are trying to make attackers use up their MP in slogging through your lines versus trying to have positions strong enough to defeat them outright. So you throw some troops out there who are strong enough to force the enemy's infantry to make a deliberate attack, which will use up most or all of their MP. Then, the next line can soak up many of the armor's MP, if possible at the deliberate attack level as well. Finally, you have a third and even a fourth line that will slow them down enough that their offensive will just create a "bulge".

Then, units that have attacked and moved are limited in their ability to dig in and thus their defense will be low, so they can be counter-attacked in the next turn if you have strong reserves. If you don't, at a minimum they will be low on fuel and supplies and thus on movement points next turn, so you can run away from them or construct another multi-level line in front of them. The attacker ends up wading at an ever-decreasing pace through a swamp of your units.

Until you are finally strong enough to counterattack, and maybe even to pocket him.


What turns would this encompass that you are doing what you wrote above on?

This mostly applies to Russian defenders in the first year, but could also apply in 1942 once the line is broken. Could also apply to German defenders in 1944/45 though I haven't played that long to try it out. It is not as expensive an approach in terms of manpower as you might think. The weak units that get brushed out of the way often take only a few dozen losses.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 5/7/2018 11:24:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

This means that you are trying to make attackers use up their MP in slogging through your lines versus trying to have positions strong enough to defeat them outright. So you throw some troops out there who are strong enough to force the enemy's infantry to make a deliberate attack, which will use up most or all of their MP. Then, the next line can soak up many of the armor's MP, if possible at the deliberate attack level as well. Finally, you have a third and even a fourth line that will slow them down enough that their offensive will just create a "bulge".

Then, units that have attacked and moved are limited in their ability to dig in and thus their defense will be low, so they can be counter-attacked in the next turn if you have strong reserves. If you don't, at a minimum they will be low on fuel and supplies and thus on movement points next turn, so you can run away from them or construct another multi-level line in front of them. The attacker ends up wading at an ever-decreasing pace through a swamp of your units.

Until you are finally strong enough to counterattack, and maybe even to pocket him.


What turns would this encompass that you are doing what you wrote above on?

This mostly applies to Russian defenders in the first year, but could also apply in 1942 once the line is broken. Could also apply to German defenders in 1944/45 though I haven't played that long to try it out. It is not as expensive an approach in terms of manpower as you might think. The weak units that get brushed out of the way often take only a few dozen losses.


Defense in depth is always nice(I have written about it in my AAR's many times) but in 41 the Russian defense in depth is nothing to write home to Mom about. She would probably just end up disappointed about it.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 5/8/2018 4:35:14 PM   
thedoctorking


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Updated version in the first post to reflect many helpful comments received from experienced players. Hope this helps.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 6/24/2018 2:53:55 AM   
thedoctorking


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Updated the version in the first post again to include some screen captures that illustrate points I'm making. Hopefully, a more useful resource now.

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RE: Basic player's guide - 6/24/2018 3:40:07 PM   
Aufklaerungs

 

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Great Job!

Just one observation. Think about renaming the thread to "Basic Soviet Player's Guide."

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