From: Madrid, Spain
I don't think so. One notable change for the better is subs do not lose a factor each in surface combat. If the ASW values seem high then perhaps the table of their values (see 11.5.10 in the rules) versus the kits used is being interpreted incorrectly. After all, no matter which kits you use, BBs are worth nothing. Also the first version of the rules - since erratisized - had CAs worth 4 each in '43 and thereafter when playing with CLs. This was a typo - they should be 1 each.
Also the criticism may be true if the CL option is used. If you're naval nut and want to play with ALLL! the ships then you may want to use CLs but personally I think the CL option should not be used as it is way too allied-friendly.
It's difficult for me to explain why, because the 8.xxx rules are changing all the times and it difficult to be updated.
What I say comes from a recent experience, I just finished a game with 8.107 (?) where I was GE. After '41, the values go insane: 2 each SCS not BB (like in older rulesets), 1 each 5 convoys (way too much for game balance), 1 per CV, 1 per air ot sea factor with the right climate.
When you consider all this in a game, you'll experience how sub warfare is kaputt.
First you have to find the enemy (as always) and the enemy not find you.
Let's say you are in box 2 or 3 depending on the sea you are attacking and then you can have a 0 or -1 because of wheather, plus the number of convoys divided by 5. Let's say you have a 30 - 40% probabilities to find the enemy. The higher boxes escorts may be in box 3 or 4 modified by cliimate. Let's call it a modified 3.
you'd have a 60 or 70% not to find, the convoys but in this case there would be a 30% that the escorts finded you. You also have a 30-40% to find the convoys and then there will be a 30-40% that the enemy finds you.
This means the probabiliy that you¡:
- don't find anything but the upper boxes escorts find you, it is (let's convert the 30-40% into a 35%) : 65%*30% = 19.5%. This is called complete desaster, since it's pretty usual that there is at least one battleship in the upper levels, ans the combat is Surface , no Sub. Plus they have usually a lower surprise roll.
- don't find anything and they don't find you: 65% * 70%= 45.5% You are not f*cked but you spend a/some naval move/s for nothing.
- find them but you are found by upper boxes escorts: 35%*30% = 10.5% Disaster as well, still found by upper escorts including some BB usually with Surprise on their side. And it's a Surface combat, not Subs.
-find the convoys and you are not found. Only favourable scenario: 35% * 70% = 24.5%.
This means 30% (19.55+10.5%) disaster, no conv sunk, several subs damaged or sunk. 45% you activate for nothing. 25% some posibilities at a high cost, see what follows:
Even in this last case (probability under 1:4) if there is any plane (NAV, CV) or several of them (and the weather is not storm or blizzard) you still have to spend some (variable) surprise points to change from Naval air combat. If you don't, it will be air to sea which means you cannot attack convoys. Disastrous, you get hits and do nothing.
If you are lucky enogh to have enough surprise to be able to use surprise to attack convoys in spite of the planes,...
... you still need to use it to avoid complete destruction of your subs: the combat value of the escorts is cumulative and it's not strange to find like 2 or 3 points because of 6+ convoys or 10+ convoys, plus like 6-10 from 4-5 escorts plus possibly one for a CV (maybe light CV), plus planes (CV +NAV).
It means you WILL most probably have a roll for a wolf pack sunk (at least)in exchange for one convoy pack or maybe 1 X + 1D.
Real, Real Nonsense.
Note: BB worth 0 only if using an optional, although in this case I guess you don't get CLs or get fewer.
Note 2: The statistics worsen if there is a plane or CV in the upper level escort and they can fly (climate) by a 10%, affecting the rest of the calculations.
< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 8/17/2018 12:43:45 PM >