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Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 6:42:51 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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I'm playing the Ironman Scen against the Jap AI, it is 1 Oct 1942. I've learned the hard way losing lots of points to conduct ship withdrawals in the proper manner. Or so I thought... But now I'm quite surprised that I can't withdraw the SS Cuttlefish, which I have in Pearl Harbor Port for a few days now merrily awaiting the coming of its withdrawal day. Its screen announces in flaming red that the great day is today, but no spot to click on.

I re-read the manual section 6.9 which states: To withdraw a ship, the ship must be off-map or at any
national home base except the NEI and PI.. If these conditions are met there will be an option
on the ship detail screen that allows for Withdraw Ship to be selected.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?


< Message edited by Kursk1943 -- 12/20/2017 6:43:15 PM >
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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 6:53:20 PM   
DConn

 

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Pearl Harbor is not a national home port; try San Francisco instead!

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Currently defending the free world against montesaurus, DBB-B, Scen. 28

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 6:53:26 PM   
Canoerebel


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You can't withdraw from Pearl. It's a level 8 port. Send it to San Fran.

P.S. Nearly every player experiences this. I've done it in multiple games. I have a hard time getting it through my head that Pearl isn't eligible to withdraw ships.

(in reply to Kursk1943)
Post #: 3
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 7:06:38 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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Okay, now I got it! Home base means it has to be in the home country. And I thought a home base is a base were I fly my home country's flag...as at Colombo!!
Maybe it's also a problem being no native speaker.
But...why can I withdraw all the British ships from Colombo and don't have to move them back to the United Kindom, which is represented off map?
Or other way round: why is Colombo considered a home port and Pearl Harbor not??

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 7:10:10 PM   
Canoerebel


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Colombo is a size-9 port. Pearl is size 8. No port under a 9 is eligible for withdrawals.

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 7:25:28 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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How does this correspond with manual 6.9 ...any national home base...? I will make a trial and try to withdraw a ship at a smaller port at the US Pacific coast to find out.

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 7:32:41 PM   
DConn

 

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The readme file contains specific conditions for allowing ship withdrawal, which have changed somewhat as the game has evolved. IIRC, you can use any off-map port, and any ship can withdraw from the national home port of any nation. I typically use Capetown, San Fran, Sydney, etc. There are other options as well, but they vary somewhat depending on proximity to the enemy.

_____________________________

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Currently defending the free world against montesaurus, DBB-B, Scen. 28

(in reply to Kursk1943)
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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 7:58:03 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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Started re-reading the readme file, but it will take some time to finish...So it will continue to be quite a challenge for me to send ships in time to home ports situated thousands of miles away...

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 8:36:38 PM   
Lokasenna


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Buried in the patch notes somewhere, it broadens the criteria. It is currently national home port or any level 9 port (presumably it can't be damaged or it doesn't count as level 9 anymore).

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 8:38:45 PM   
Canoerebel


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I thought it was any level 9 port too, but when I took Manila I was unable to withdraw from it.

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 10:47:41 PM   
dcpollay


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My recollection here, and someone may correct me, is that at the time Pearl Harbor was not a "home" port at all. It was a forward deployment base, similar to what today we would consider Okinawa or mainland Japan. While it had substantial facilities, they were not really the main naval resources in the Pacific; rather, the West Coast bases were the primary facilities (San Diego, maybe?).

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Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/20/2017 10:49:28 PM   
BillBrown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I thought it was any level 9 port too, but when I took Manila I was unable to withdraw from it.


I think that if the Japanese have taken the base, you can not withdraw from it after you retake it.
I have the same problem with Colombo, my opponent took and even after I took it back I have not been
able to withdraw ships from it.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 12
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/21/2017 12:01:58 AM   
Ian R

 

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Did a search once and made a note:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2275495&mpage=1&key=ship%2Cwithdrawals�
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

The original concept of ship withdrawal required that the ship first be moved off map. This was to prevent any exploits where a player might avoid risks of enemy action between the base and the map. However this caused players some problems and it was decided (over my objections) to allow ships to be withdrawn from a few select on-map bases. Karachi is the base in the Indian Ocean.

It continues to be a problem for players and we will be loosening this even more in the next patch. Ships will be able to be withdrawn from any port in the historical "off to Atlantic" regions - US/Canadian West Coast, South Australia and Perth, and Ceylon/Western India. Port size restrictions will be used to ensure withdrawal only from a major base, and that base can not be under enemy threat. The ship itself may not be withdrawn from on-map if it is so badly damaged that it could not reasonable make the trip to an off map port The intent is to emulate the historical ports from which ships departed the theatre, but no block use of withdrawal as a way of escaping enemy action or imminent sinking.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


To be 100% historical we ought to prevent withdrawals from Aden until the Med opens. But we are already moving the other way to allow more withdrawals from on-map ports. So let's just say that withdrawals from Aden happen by movement down the coast of Africa to Capetown and forget I ever mentioned it.



www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2752218&mpage=1&key=�

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

To recap on ship withdraw locations:
1. can withdraw from any off-map base (even with damage by the looks of it).
2. ship must not be too damaged, and the base is not too near the enemy to be able to withdraw from a on-map base.
3. base is national for USN, Canada, India, Australia or NZ.
4. base is size 9+.
5. base is size 7,8
(size 7,8 conditions)
base in USA (West Coast), or
base in Canada (West Coast), or
base in Ceylon or westward including Indian Ocean ports from Ceylon north, or
base is Australian ports in the general Melbourne-Sydney area, plus Perth, or
base in NZ

The checks are performed in the above order

[took this from code]

Edit
Appologies to Celon. Misspelt it.



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2752218&mpage=1&key=�


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Patch 2 expanded the list of ports for withdrawal as follows:

48. Gameplay Change: Allow ship withdrawals at any on map level-9 port and some
smaller ports with no enemy nearby. Ships can always be withdrawn from any offmap
port or from any TF that is currently off map. Ships that are not badly damaged
can be withdrawn from some on-map ports or from TFs in certain on-map regions.
For on map, ship may not be on fire, total damage may not exceed 99 and no
individual damage type (system, floatation, engine) may exceed 50. Ships may not
be withdrawn from any on-map location where the enemy has air superiority. The
intent is to prevent withdrawal as a method of saving a ship that stands a good chance
of being lost or further damaged. On map withdrawal ports are set based on the
historical exit locations for ships leaving the Pacific:
1. Any level 9 port.
2. National home ports of the United States, Canada, India, Australia, and New
Zealand (with no port level requirement)
3. Any level 7 or larger port on the US or Canadian West Coast.
4. Any level 7 or larger Indian port East of Ceylon (including Ceylon itself)
5. Any level 7 or larger port in South Eastern Australia, plus Perth.
6. Any level 7 or larger port in New Zealand.

Pearl Harbor is not a level 9 port. Nor is it either a national home port or situated on the West Coast.

Alfred


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3077611&mpage=35&key=ship%2Cwithdrawal%26%2365533%3B#

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

OK, time for a mini ship withdrawal 101 post. The conditions for withdrawal have been relaxed from those applicable to when AE first shipped out.


A. Withdrawal Conditions

1. A ship can be withdrawn once off map irrespective of the condition it is in.

2. On map a ship can only be withdrawn if:

(a) Aggregated damage does not exceed 100
(b) Damage to any single component is less than 50
(c) It is in a port
(c) It is not in one of the offline ship repair modes nor whilst still returning to online from offline repair mode

3. On map locations for ship withdrawal are:

(a) Any level 9 port.

(b) The national home ports of

  • United States - San Francisco
  • Canada - Vancouver
  • India - Karachi
  • Australia - Sydney
  • New Zealand - Wellington


(c) Any level 7 or larger port located:


  • on the US or Canadian West Coast
  • in SE Australia (should be same area which triggers Australian Emergency Reinforcements if enemy LCU enters) plus Perth (which is not in trigger area for Emergency Reinforcements)
  • in New Zealand
  • on Ceylon
  • on Indian west coast (now includes Bombay)


(d) The above on map locations will not allow for withdrawal if the enemy has local air superiority over the port or enemy troops are present.


B. Withdrawal Ramifications

1. Unlike air unit withdrawals, no PPs can be earned by an early withdrawal.

2. Non withdrawal by the due date will incurr a daily PP loss until withdrawal is effected.

3. Ships withdrawn with either unfixed damage or delayed upgrade, have their return date pushed back to effect the required repairs and upgrade. For example if a ship is withdrawn with an estimated period of 18 days to complete existing repairs plus a delayed upgrade period of 15 days, the ship will return 33 days later than it would have if it had been withdrawn in perfect condition.


Alfred



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2941508&mpage=1&key=ship%2Cwithdrawals�

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Damaged ships can indeed withdraw when off map. They can not withdraw on map as that could be used as a cheat to save a ship that might otherwise be lost (and the victory points).





http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3883610&mpage=1&key=ship%2Cwithdrawals�


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If a ship is under repair in a port where withdraws are allowed, you can click on the "Show Ships Under Repair" button and the withdraw button is available there. If the ship is in upgrade in a port where it isn't allowed, you're screwed until the ship is online again.

Bill



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

- No ship can be withdrawn from an on-map port where the enemy has air superiority.
- For on-map withdraw, a ship's total damage may not exceed 99 and no individual damage type (system, floatation, engine) may exceed 50.
- Off-map withdrawal of damaged ships can occur at any damage level.
- Ship nationality has no bearing on where it may withdraw.



No idea if this is correct any more:

quote:

Level 9 port withdrawal (except off-map and National home ports) only works if there are no enemy within 20 hexes.
(subs don't count) - even if you have air superiority.



_____________________________

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Ian R

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 13
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/21/2017 2:06:09 AM   
Alfred

 

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At the time of printing the manual was quite correct regarding the criteria for ship withdrawals.  However, patch #2 greatly modified the criteria.  In general, and against the wishes of Don Bowen, the criteria was relaxed.  Also there were a couple of "hidden" criteria which were disclosed on the forum subsequent to printing.

On 16 August 2012 in an AAR (hence why it doesn't seem to be widely known) I provided a mini Ship Withdrawal 101 Guide.  With subsequent code changes now would be a good time to provide a revised guide.


A.  Locating Ships Scheduled for Withdrawal


1.  From the <Intelligence Reports> screen, click on the <Ship Withdrawal> button.  This brings up a screen listing all scheduled ship withdrawals.  The scheduled list can be filtered by nationality, ship type and withdrawal date (all dates, scheduled for next month, or overdue).

2.  From the  <List all Active Ships List> screen, click on the <Ships Withdrawing within 90 days> button.  Ships which are scheduled to withdraw later than 90 days will not appear here.


B.  Ships Eligible for Withdrawal


1.  Ship must be disbanded in a port.

2.  For on map ships, damage to any single ship area (system, flotation, or engine) must be less than 50.  Damage levels do not apply to off map ships.

3.  For on map ships, aggregated damage to all three ship areas (system + flotation + engine) does not exceed 100.  Damage levels do not apply to off map ships.

4.  The withdrawal button for eligible ships undergoing offline repairs is only available when the ship is accessed via the following screens:


<Base Screen>  --->  <Ships Anchored at xxx>  --->   <Show Ships Under Repair>


The withdrawal button will not appear if the ship is accessed via the <Manage Ship Repairs> screen.


C.  Eligible Ports Which Allow Withdrawal


1.  Any off map port.

2.  On map ports which meet any of the following criteria:

(a) currently an undamaged size 9 port

(b) the national port of USA, Canada, India, Australia and New Zealand (see section D below).  These national ports do not take port size into account

(c) currently an undamaged minimum size 7 port located:

  • on the USA or Canadian West Coast.  The Hawaiian islands are not on the American west coast
  • in South East Australia (should cover the same area which triggers the Emergency Australian Reinforcements) plus Perth (which does not trigger the emergency reinforcements)
  • in New Zealand
  • on Ceylon
  • on the Indian West Coast (now includes Bombay)

(d) On map ports which normally would meet the eligibility criteria cease to do so if any enemy force (excluding enemy submarines) are located 10 or fewer hexes away from the port


D.  National Home Ports


As of 30 November 2015 the national ports are:

  • USA - San Francisco
  • Canada - Vancouver
  • India - Karachi
  • Australia - Sydney
  • New Zealand - Auckland


Any ship irrespective of it's nationality can be withdrawn from any national port which remains eligible.  A British ship can be withdrawn from Sydney and an American ship can be withdrawn from Auckland.


E.  Withdrawal Ramifications


1.  Unlike air unit withdrawals, no PPs are earned by withdrawing a ship before it's scheduled withdrawal date.

2.  A ship not withdrawn by the scheduled withdrawal date will incur a loss of PPs for each and every day it remains in the game.  The amount lost varies per ship class.  A single capital ship not withdrawn can cost more PPs than are generated daily in the scenario.

3.  Ships overdue for withdrawal cease to lose PPs daily once sunk.  The enemy gains the normal VPs resulting from sinking the ship.

4.  Ships which are scheduled to subsequently return but which are first withdrawn with unfixed damaged or have an overdue ship upgrade, have their scheduled return date delayed until the damage repair or ship upgrade has been completed off map.  For example if a ship is withdrawn when it has an estimated further 15 days to finalise ship repairs plus an overdue ship upgrade which will require a 18 day refit period, it will return 33 days later than if it had been withdrawn in pristine condition.

5.  Ships which are scheduled to subsequently return but are withdrawn early, do not have their return date accelerated commensurately.


Alfred

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 14
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/21/2017 5:04:30 AM   
Yaab


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SS Scuttlefish.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 15
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/21/2017 6:47:10 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Thank you guys, most helpful! Special thanks to Alfred again, will save your post in my "rules files". I'm very glad I can withdraw my small US subs based at Brisbane and Townsville from Sydney instead of sending them on a long journey towards the US Coast...

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 16
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 6:44:37 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Now I'm really at a loss....
It's Oct 11 42, withdrawal date of British CL Newcastle, which I disbanded at Colombo (meeting the requirements being size 9, undamaged, at Ceylon) days ahead. But I can't withdraw her, nothing to click on again! Colombo seemed to work in the past, because I withdrew a British overdue CV from there one our two months ago.
So it's getting a bit nerve wrecking for me, because I'm never sure whether withdrawal will succeed or not. Maybe it's a deliberate feature of the game to add some excitement...
Any ideas? Intend to send the CL to Karachi or Bombay and hopefully can withdraw her from there. Again some more PP to lose...
Will keep her for the moment at Colombo hoping for some helpful input from you again.

< Message edited by Kursk1943 -- 12/23/2017 6:45:13 AM >

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RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 8:47:01 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Cuttlefish cannot be withdrawn until he finishes his saga about IJN Hibiki adventures in your game
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1363103

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Post #: 18
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 1:55:15 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 17376
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Now I'm really at a loss....
It's Oct 11 42, withdrawal date of British CL Newcastle, which I disbanded at Colombo (meeting the requirements being size 9, undamaged, at Ceylon) days ahead. But I can't withdraw her, nothing to click on again! Colombo seemed to work in the past, because I withdrew a British overdue CV from there one our two months ago.
So it's getting a bit nerve wrecking for me, because I'm never sure whether withdrawal will succeed or not. Maybe it's a deliberate feature of the game to add some excitement...
Any ideas? Intend to send the CL to Karachi or Bombay and hopefully can withdraw her from there. Again some more PP to lose...
Will keep her for the moment at Colombo hoping for some helpful input from you again.

If the ship is damaged to the extent of 99 points of damage (sum of all categories), it cannot be withdrawn.
I think there is also something about not being able to withdraw if the enemy is nearby, but that may apply to air units rather than ships.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Kursk1943)
Post #: 19
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 2:43:37 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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BBfanboy, maybe enemy nearby is the reason. There was a German raider (AMC Emden) the previous turn ca. 8 hexes near Colombo,
A few post above it is quoted: Level 9 port withdrawal (except off-map and National home ports) only works if there are no enemy within 20 hexes.
(subs don't count) - even if you have air superiority.
So I leave her in port and see what happens next turn.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 20
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 3:06:07 PM   
Alfred

 

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The 20 hexes figure is not correct.  My post #14 is comprehensive and correct in details provided.  The AMC Emden is your problem and may well remain so for several turns.

Alfred

(in reply to Kursk1943)
Post #: 21
RE: Can't withdraw SS Cuttlefish - 12/23/2017 3:46:51 PM   
Kursk1943

 

Posts: 444
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From: Bavaria in Southern Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The 20 hexes figure is not correct.  My post #14 is comprehensive and correct in details provided.  The AMC Emden is your problem and may well remain so for several turns.

Alfred

Your right, the Emden popped up again, so I sent the CL to withdraw to Bombay. Overread your comment on enemy distance, promise to read more careful in future...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 22
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