Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Gotta give John Tiller credit

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Gotta give John Tiller credit Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/14/2017 10:57:31 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2373
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
Smolensk '41 Gold is out, which is basically a nicely patched version of the original I bought 12 years ago. I expected to pay a little something for this, but it is free. Makes me feel better how many of his games I have, and now they have some value again.

I just hope he finds some new customers to generate the income he deserves.

Bravo!

Post #: 1
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/14/2017 11:16:05 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2969
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
Don't worry about him. He has some government military contracts.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 2
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 8:44:17 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 897
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: online
I took a peak, and to my knowledge, it is a 39 dollar purchase and not 'free'.

_____________________________

All I really want, is my board games, on my computer.
I don't want real time (you can't cram 6 years of war in a few hours and call it 'real').
I don't need 3d, I prefer nato symbols or ASL like graphics.
I expect hexes and turns.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 3
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 10:04:58 AM   
Red2112


Posts: 1051
Joined: 9/9/2006
From: Airborn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I took a peak, and to my knowledge, it is a 39 dollar purchase and not 'free'.


Just in case, you havent already...

May I suggest the "Panzer Battles Demo", which uses the new graphics, and has +13 scenarios! It´s almost like a full game.
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/PanzerBattlesDemo.html

Also, you may like "Modern Air Power SPV", which is a single player version of the MAP series. I counted atleast 10 scenarios including tutorials. It´s also free.
http://www.johntillersoftware.com/ModernAirPower.html

Remember, to exit the game hit the "x" key! Or you will be looking for the manual on how to get out of there!

I have "Modern Air Power War Over the Mideast". It´s quite fun, here´s a vid of mine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNQynZMBg8&t=565s

With all the demos he´s got, you have plenty of game time for free, which is nice of him!

Red




_____________________________

Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, EVGA GTX 1070ti 8GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB SSD´s, LG 29' Ultrawide 21:9 monitor Logitech G13, G502, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, TrackIR 5.0, Corsair Void Pro 7.1 USB.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 4
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 10:37:39 AM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1112
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline
I think age made Tiller lose his mind... games with demos, discounts, free updates... i dont know if Nostradamus wrote something about this apocalipsis signals

In my case i really really really wait the new nap title, sounds promising even when 1 campaign and certain battles are not added yet... next one is less interesting for me, i never feel atracted by post Jena 1807 winter battles but lack of Egipt and spanish part is

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=71246

"Jim did a good job of whetting your appetites for the game. He clobbered my French in the Battle of Neerwinden. His outnumbered Austrians used the terrain to their advantage forcing the French to crawl through the fields.

Included in the next game will be:

The battles of the campaigns of 1792-94 in France and the Austrian Netherlands. This includes 9 battles:
Valmy
Jemappes
Neerwinden
Kaiserlautern
Pirmasens
Tourcoing
Tournay
Fleurus (balloons too!)
Aldenhoven

For the campaign of 1796 in Germany we have 6 battles:
First Altenkirchen
Ettlingen
Neresheim
Amberg
Wurzburg
Emmendingen

For the campaign of 1799 in Switzerland and Germany we have 5 battles:
Ostrach
1st Stockach
Winterthur
1st Zurich
2nd Zurich

For the campaign of 1799 in Holland we have 2 battles:
Bergen
Castricum
(and I will be adding in more battles after the game releases - I want to wait til Geert's book on the campaign comes out next year)

For the campaign of 1800 in Germany we will have 6 battles:
2nd Stockach-Engen
Messkirch
2nd Biberach (Paul Synnot translated part of a French text for me for this one)
Neuberg
Ampfing
Hohenlinden

Altogether TWENTY-EIGHT (28) battles! Definitely the hardest title that I have worked on up to this point. The OBs for the battles were often built by piecing together information from various sources.

There are FOUR campaigns to include:
The Battles of the War of the First Coalition - not the traditional kind of campaign but a string of historical battles with choices for both sides. Its meant to acquaint the players with the battles and let them make choices as if they were the commanders at the battle.

The Campaign of 1796 in Germany
The Campaign of 1799 in Swizerland and Germany
The Campaign of 1800 in Germany

I want to add in a campaign in Holland in 1799. I have built a large map of the entire upper peninsula above and including Amsterdam. Its a huge map. I was aided in this work by Mark van Hattem, a Dutch member of our team who made numerous corrections to the map. As I said before once Geert's book comes out I will finish off the battles and then build the campaign.

You will like the Situation maps and image maps for the campaigns we built. Joe Amoral reworked some physical relief maps and they look great. I look at this game as our team's crowning achievement for this series. No one has ever done this period of the wars on this scale before.

The armies represented are:

French
British
Austrian
Russian
Prussian
Hesse-Darmstadt
Hesse-Kassel
Hanover
Dutch Republic and the Batavian Republic
Conde's army and other Emigre contingents
Bavaria
Poland (Legions)
Swiss
Cisalpine Republic (Grenadiers and Hussars)
Saxon

The Spanish front was not as active so I chose to pass on working on the battles. We also did not do the Egyptian campaign for Marengo and I chose not to include it here too. A game on the Russians, Austrians, French vs. the Ottoman Empire would be interesting but unlikely. Its the only way I can see us ever adding in the Turks. Frankly I have little data on those battles (other than Egypt) and it would be a real "crapshoot" for me to try and guess at the OBs, troop locations on the maps, etc. Just not my strong suit.

There were numerous "Clashes" listed in Digby Smith's book that I passed up on. I felt that 28 battles was sufficient (HUGE WINK). Moving on to the Eylau-Friedland game was the next logical step for me.

Once the game comes out I know that you folks will enjoy it. Its going to round out the period nicely. Marengo is the companion game to this next title and yes, I may eventually include a huge campaign file for the 1796 Germany AND Northern Italy campaign which would give both sides choices in transferring troops to Italy. Wurmser was sent to the Italian theater right before Moreau and Jourdan attacked across the Rhine. It didn't matter as Charles defeated the French without those Austrian troops. Italy was the more important theater anyway.

A campaign linking the 1799 campaign in Italy to that in Switzerland and Germany would be interesting too. I have variant scenarios (stand alone) featuring Suvorov arriving at 2nd Zurich.

There are several variant battles added in as well. I have an "Islands" battle that use a map of islands that each player tries to hold. Naval forces arrive for the French to do battle against the British. Units use the "Has Boats" capability to try and take other islands. All SIX Nations are used in the game to include:
French
Austrian
Russian
Prussian
British
Emigre (replaces Spanish)

There is a variant Battle of Fleurus where Bonaparte and his army of Italy (Massena, Augereau, etc) take on the Prussians. Also featured is a battle of Zurich where Bonaparte fights Charles AND Suvorov.

For diversity this game has it. Pick a nation of the period and you can fight with its army. The British army in Holland is not terribly large but has nice morale. Lots of Dragoon Guards cavalry units. Guard infantry and the usual regulars.

Ok .. enough hype! Off to work on the Battle of Ostroleka in Poland, Feb. 1807."

(in reply to Red2112)
Post #: 5
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 10:38:09 AM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I took a peak, and to my knowledge, it is a 39 dollar purchase and not 'free'.


I believe if you own the original game you can update for free. For the rest of us you have to buy it.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 6
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 10:40:35 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 897
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I took a peak, and to my knowledge, it is a 39 dollar purchase and not 'free'.


I believe if you own the original game you can update for free. For the rest of us you have to buy it.


Ahh, ok, might try that. I don't have it currently installed.

_____________________________

All I really want, is my board games, on my computer.
I don't want real time (you can't cram 6 years of war in a few hours and call it 'real').
I don't need 3d, I prefer nato symbols or ASL like graphics.
I expect hexes and turns.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 7
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 11:09:43 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5694
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline
The free Panzer Campaigns demo Mius '43 has been updated to the Gold version now.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/

_____________________________

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

WitE alpha/beta tester
Sanctus Reach beta tester
Desert War 1940-42 beta tester
WitE2 alpha tester

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 8
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 3:15:47 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline
I haven't bought a John Tiller game in years. The AI was usually considered lacklustre. Any meaningful improvements in the AI?
Thanks.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 9
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/15/2017 11:18:17 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2373
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
Of course the game is not free, but the patch is. But you better have a serial number. I bought mine from NWS 12 years ago and they want me to take a picture of it. I don't own an Iphone or camera. I told them I would rather Fedex them the disk. So I guess nothing in life really is Free!

Stormbringer, just download one of the demos and decide for yourself.

< Message edited by Rosseau -- 12/15/2017 11:19:45 PM >

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 10
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 2:15:51 AM   
athineos


Posts: 111
Joined: 1/6/2017
From: Kansas City, USA
Status: offline
JTCS - Best game ever. I'll play it forever!!!!

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 11
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 3:41:02 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2373
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
I know. Like Steel Panthers MBT, I had to force myself to quit so I could play other games.

Well, Rich Hamilton got back to me directly and sent a link to the updated game so I would not have to take a picture of my CD. They are also having a first-time-in-history (I believe) sale over there on a few games. He also sent me the 10 serials he has on record. I will admit to having almost all HPS games, but we're talking up to 17 years ago, and most from NWS, a reseller.

Anyway, stuff like this makes me glad I support them, and same goes for Matrix.

(in reply to athineos)
Post #: 12
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 5:55:24 AM   
zakblood


Posts: 21776
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
not sure if it just me, just never bought in to a pay for patch type game, and maybe never will, no matter how good tbh, and any extra content being separate as a DLC etc, so if you wish to have extra it's your choice, but not for a patch, imp that's just wrong, i understand that supports costs, but patches to fix bugs and errors should imo always be provided for free,

then again i don't also do free games which offer pay to play better or quicker either,...

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 13
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 8:21:09 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3692
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
There seems to be a lot of confusion here about Smolensk Gold, so two things:
1) It is free for anyone that already owns Smolensk. I bought Smolensk from HPS several years ago and JTS support sent me a download link and serial number upon my request, for free.
2) Tt is not a patch, the basic game is not bugged--I haven't installed it yet, but my understanding is that Smolensk Gold is basically a graphics upgrade and compilation of a bunch of scenarios which have been floating around.

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 14
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 10:27:16 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 2969
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
Like he said ^, if you own the game it's free like a patch. If you don't own the game you have to buy it because you don't have the game so how could you apply an upgrade or patch?

John Tiller and company are great at support. I lost all of my serial numbers at one time because of a hard drive failure. They got them all to me and the ones for a couple of games I bought through HPS and I didn't have to jump through hoops for them to do it.

What JT is not is Battlefront/Combat Mi$$ion. Talk about a con job. Bought Normandy. Then bought Italy and paid $10 to upgrade Normandy to Italy specs. Bought Red Thunder, paid $10 to upgrade Normandy and $10 to upgrade Italy to Red Thunder specs. Then they come out with their Bulge version. Guess what? They wand $10 FOR EACH UPGRADE for the other three I already have. WTF. Screw them and their frickin games. And all of the games before their latest are not upgraded. You still have to pay for that. Never will I buy another game from those crooks.

So yeah. Tiller game company is okay in my book.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 12/16/2017 10:34:17 AM >


_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 15
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 10:44:54 AM   
bazjak

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/1/2014
From: Wales UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Like he said ^, if you own the game it's free like a patch. If you don't own the game you have to buy it because you don't have the game so how could you apply an upgrade or patch?

John Tiller and company are great at support. I lost all of my serial numbers at one time because of a hard drive failure. They got them all to me and the ones for a couple of games I bought through HPS and I didn't have to jump through hoops for them to do it.

What JT is not is Battlefront/Combat Mi$$ion. Talk about a con job. Bought Normandy. Then bought Italy and paid $10 to upgrade Normandy to Italy specs. Bought Red Thunder, paid $10 to upgrade Normandy and $10 to upgrade Italy to Red Thunder specs. Then they come out with their Bulge version. Guess what? They wand $10 FOR EACH UPGRADE for the other three I already have. WTF. Screw them and their frickin games. And all of the games before their latest are not upgraded. You still have to pay for that. Never will I buy another game from those crooks.

So yeah. Tiller game company is okay in my book.


Well said sir

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 16
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 11:20:57 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: athineos

JTCS - Best game ever. I'll play it forever!!!!


At least until you kick the bucket. or are you planning to play it in the afterlife.

_____________________________


(in reply to athineos)
Post #: 17
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 12:28:16 PM   
Talon_XBMCX


Posts: 197
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap


quote:

ORIGINAL: athineos

JTCS - Best game ever. I'll play it forever!!!!


At least until you kick the bucket. or are you planning to play it in the afterlife.



Heaven is full of all the war games that have ever been or will be created. It's why I try to be good ;-)

(in reply to Zap)
Post #: 18
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 5:00:15 PM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3207
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
it is pretty amazing that a game that is about 20 years old is getting an update!

I also like that they have updated the base game so new owners will not have to download a patch right after buying and downloading the game. Wish Matrix would do that more....

(in reply to Talon_XBMCX)
Post #: 19
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 9:10:48 PM   
76mm


Posts: 3692
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: online
They just sent out a similar free upgrade for Moscow 42!

(in reply to Tejszd)
Post #: 20
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 10:16:04 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2302
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Like he said ^, if you own the game it's free like a patch. If you don't own the game you have to buy it because you don't have the game so how could you apply an upgrade or patch?

John Tiller and company are great at support. I lost all of my serial numbers at one time because of a hard drive failure. They got them all to me and the ones for a couple of games I bought through HPS and I didn't have to jump through hoops for them to do it.

What JT is not is Battlefront/Combat Mi$$ion. Talk about a con job. Bought Normandy. Then bought Italy and paid $10 to upgrade Normandy to Italy specs. Bought Red Thunder, paid $10 to upgrade Normandy and $10 to upgrade Italy to Red Thunder specs. Then they come out with their Bulge version. Guess what? They wand $10 FOR EACH UPGRADE for the other three I already have. WTF. Screw them and their frickin games. And all of the games before their latest are not upgraded. You still have to pay for that. Never will I buy another game from those crooks.

So yeah. Tiller game company is okay in my book.


Same here, I stopped buying there games, I really despise the purchasing of patches and a six year old game still costs $ 60 bucks. I will delete them soon and they never get played.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 21
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/16/2017 10:43:28 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2373
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline
All true, but Matrix doesn't have a game and editor that touches the latest Combat Mission series. They are like the Graviteam games, but actually have a UI that is understandable The AI is still not that great though, especially for random battles. Also, having to re-install all their games and patches on a new computer is something I never want to go through again. However, the graphics and scenario mods can be amazing, and I have downloaded hundreds of items for free.

I do plan to buy the new DLC for Mius Front - good deal and it helps the developer. The thing is you have to "live" those games every day/week or you (I mean I) forget what I'm doing. Where Combat Mission is ingrained, I don't have to re-learn it. I rarely post there mind you - they can be pretty arrogant - but show me a better game of its type besides Steel Beasts, which is crazy complex and expensive.

< Message edited by Rosseau -- 12/16/2017 10:46:50 PM >

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 22
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 12:40:17 PM   
Red2112


Posts: 1051
Joined: 9/9/2006
From: Airborn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

They just sent out a similar free upgrade for Moscow 42!


Are you sure it´s not "Stalingrad -42" instead of Moscow 42?

I just got the mail and "Smolensk 41" and Stalingrad 42" are now gold (updated)...
JTS Gold Updates

_____________________________

Win10 Pro(x64), i7 8700k @ 4.7Ghz, 32GB ram DDR4, EVGA GTX 1070ti 8GB, M.2 PCIe NVMe (x2) 480GB + 960GB SSD´s, LG 29' Ultrawide 21:9 monitor Logitech G13, G502, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, TrackIR 5.0, Corsair Void Pro 7.1 USB.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 23
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 1:46:46 PM   
Strelaoz

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/6/2010
Status: offline
Hi,

You're both right.

Smolensk, Stalingrad and Mius are all officially out.

A new capability at the JTS website was tested which allowed us to directly message people that had previously bought a title. We tested that capability with Moscow '42.

For Moscow, an issue has arisen around the display of T-34 unit cards that we're going to correct this week, resulting in us not officially releasing the update more broadly.

All should be corrected and able to publicly make available the Gold update for Moscow '42 by the end of this week.

David

(in reply to Red2112)
Post #: 24
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 4:13:42 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2969
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
Ah Moscow 42. I love that one. Someone said the didn't buy it because, in their words, "I don't play what if". I guess they didn't know it also included the Soviet winter offensive which was most certainly not 'what if'.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to Strelaoz)
Post #: 25
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 6:44:12 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 6323
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

I know. Like Steel Panthers MBT, I had to force myself to quit so I could play other games.

Well, Rich Hamilton got back to me directly and sent a link to the updated game so I would not have to take a picture of my CD. They are also having a first-time-in-history (I believe) sale over there on a few games. He also sent me the 10 serials he has on record. I will admit to having almost all HPS games, but we're talking up to 17 years ago, and most from NWS, a reseller.

Anyway, stuff like this makes me glad I support them, and same goes for Matrix.

thanks...I will contact them about this. Likewise, I bought my HPS titles from NWS.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 26
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 8:32:08 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 2969
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
From JT in an email this a.m. when they announced the Stalingrad upgrade:

HPS customers will receive a full download after purchase validation.

If you purchased direct from HPS reply to this email to start the process. I will be able to find your record in that database. If you purchased through another avenue send a picture of your cd(s) to us and we'll get you going.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

"Getting back to reality...I'll only go as a tourist!"

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 27
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/18/2017 9:33:26 PM   
demyansk


Posts: 2302
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline
I have France40, Korsun, and Kursk. Who do I send a CD picture to?
Thanks

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 28
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/19/2017 1:53:27 AM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: demyansk

I have France40, Korsun, and Kursk. Who do I send a CD picture to?
Thanks


Try this support@johntillersoftware.com


_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to demyansk)
Post #: 29
RE: Gotta give John Tiller credit - 12/19/2017 1:55:52 AM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 1974
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
I have quite a few Tiller games, they will only send you a registration number on games you can actually show you own by purchase receipt or for me in some cases picture of the CD case direct from you as many of my HPS games were actually purchased through Naval Warfare site who sold them for about $10,less than you could buy them direct from HPS.

edit: oh and only on gam,es that have actually been updated since HPS stopped the update service for games they sold.

< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 12/19/2017 1:56:56 AM >


_____________________________

Hooked Since AH Gettysburg

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Gotta give John Tiller credit Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.148